From lance@screamscape.com Wed Jun 30 19:28:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3650 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 02:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 02:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 02:28:28 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i612SS6V009840 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:28:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 67345 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 02:28:27 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 02:28:27 -0000 Message-ID: <01e801c45f13$1e738100$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <36.5c059b05.2e14cd0b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:28:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Las Vegas Majority of attractions VS MGM Grand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance I can't help thinking... aren't there Anti-Trust / Anti-Monopoly Laws to prevent this kind of merger from happeneing? That's way too much control for one company to have over the entire city of Las Vegas. Control that could be used to effectivly shut down virtually every other major casino in town, and money to buy up anyone that they can't kill off. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:12 PM Subject: [RollerCoasterTalk] Las Vegas Majority of attractions VS MGM Grand From http://www.screamscape.com/html/las_vegas.html before you read this i have some rumors i was told about by attendants at the Adventuredome and Excalibur. First off with MGM wanting to purchace Mandalay Bay, and sister properties. I heard that 2 of the casinos on the strip would close and totally be demolished or remodeled. The two casinos would be Excalibur and Circus Circus. Excalibur i was told would totally rid of the theme of king arthur and the kiddish theme there, also with Circus Circus, the Adventuredome and midways would be said to be gone, MGM wants Vegas to become an Adult Town again. So I would imagine the kiddy rides at the Adventuredome would be gone, and height restricions higher so older people could only ride. 52" I've noticed that at NYNY (Manhattan Express) and Primm (Desperado) both have 52" height limits, and pricing is through the roof. If not the dome would just be gone. If an offer is made to the Stratosphere it made me think we would keep our rides, hight limits just raised. We dont normally attract kids on our rides, ask George, he saw we mostly have teens and adults riding our rides. Since we do have a more extreme venue for rides, (other then the High Roller). Still makes me wonder, what will happen to our attractions, and Sahara's Speed: The ride hit an all time low for attandance last year, from years past. Well Vegas is always changing stay tuned. John Mr. Stratosphere Las Vegas News - (6/30/04) A mega merger is on the horizon that could have devastating repercussions for fans of Las Vegas. MGM Mirage, already a mammoth force in the Las Vegas gaming world, has approved a $7.9 billion offer for for Las Vegas’ other heavyweight chain, Mandalay Resort Group (Formerly: Circus Circus). The Mandalay board has approved of the deal and if finalized it will create a monstrous titan of a company that could use it’s influence to control pricing and future development. MGM Mirage is already a monster of a company by way of the previous merge of the MGM Grand Casinos (MGM Grand, New York, Boardwalk, and the Primm Valley Resorts) and Steve Wynn’s former Mirage casinos (Mirage, Treasure Island, Bellagio and 50% of Monte Carlo). This previous merger alone has resulted in the average room prices in Vegas seeming to rise up quite a bit over the last several years. Adding Mandalay’s impressive catalog of Vegas casinos to the mix (Mandalay Bay, Luxor, Excalibur, Circus Circus, the other 50% of Monte Carlo) will put one company in charge of the majority of the big name casinos in Las Vegas. I shudder to think of the effects this may have on us as ride enthusiasts. MGM has almost gone out of their way to ruin or destroy every ride under their control. This goes back to their incompetence and lack of ability to run their own theme park (MGM Grand Adventures) that soon led to it’s destruction. Then we have the poor choice of vendor (Togo), maintenance issues and out of control pricing on the Manhattan Express at the New York Casino. The buyout of the Primm Resorts (Buffalo Bills) that led to the immediate cancelation of the plans for the world’s longest wooden coaster, bad maintenance and operations on all of the Buffalo Bills attractions as well as the end of the dream to eventually expand Buffalo Bills into a full theme park. The destruction of the cool themeing and pirate battles at the Treasure Island with the ill-received retro “T.I” theme and “sexy” Sirens vs Pirates dance-off. The thought of these idiots being put in charge of the Circus Circus Adventuredome, the Luxor pyramid and Excalibur castle is enough to make me sick to my stomach. Imagine paying $12 to ride the Canyon Blaster... the insulting going rate for MGM Mirage’s painful Manhattan Express. Hell, they might just close down the entire Adventure Dome (as they did to their own Grand Adventures park) and turn it into the next Cirque Du Soleil show arena. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Don't forget our group sites at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RollerCoasterTalk and http://www.geocities.com/RollerCoasterTalk bookmarks, files, chatroom, and more are all found there. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RollerCoasterTalk/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RollerCoasterTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From lance@screamscape.com Wed Jun 30 19:32:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91199 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 02:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 02:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grenada.globat.com) (216.193.201.33) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 02:32:06 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by grenada.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i612W6VF081474 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 70083 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 02:32:06 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 02:32:06 -0000 Message-ID: <01ec01c45f13$a0a19d60$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <36.5c059b05.2e14cd0b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:32:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.33 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Las Vegas Majority of attractions VS MGM Grand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance >>I heard that 2 of the casinos on the strip would close and totally be demolished or remodeled. The two casinos would be Excalibur and Circus Circus. << One more thing... I have doubts Excalibur would go... but I can see them killing off Circus Circus. In their own report though, they mention that they would like to transform the Boardwalk hotel on the strip between Monte Carlo & Bellagio into something bigger and better, so I would think that this would be the first casino they would start to work on... though they already own it so I can only assume the want to use the new hotel to create some sort of attached resort to the Monte Carlo and perhaps Bellagio, and I'm sure they would like 100% control of Monte Carlo before they pushed ahead with the Boardwalk project. From MrStratosphere@aol.com Wed Jun 30 21:19:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82929 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 04:19:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 04:19:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 04:19:04 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.147.2d5f433e (4402) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <147.2d5f433e.2e14eaa4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:18:44 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.2 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Las Vegas Majority of attractions VS MGM Grand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2004 8:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lance@screamscape.com writes: I can't help thinking... aren't there Anti-Trust / Anti-Monopoly Laws to prevent this kind of merger from happeneing? That's way too much control for one company to have over the entire city of Las Vegas. Control that could be used to effectivly shut down virtually every other major casino in town, and money to buy up anyone that they can't kill off. Well apparantly there aren't any because the county is allowing it. I guess in most part because there was an agreement between MGM and Mandalay. And now Steve Wynn may be on a comeback once Wynn Las Vegas opens. This town changes all the time, and only time will tell. I wonder if MGM will just own Vegas one day. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 08:12:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71842 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 15:12:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 15:12:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 15:12:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 15:10:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:10:25 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <147.2d5f433e.2e14eaa4@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1330 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.207.94 Subject: Re: Las Vegas Majority of attractions VS MGM Grand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/2004 8:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lance@s... writes: > I can't help thinking... aren't there Anti-Trust / Anti-Monopoly Laws to > prevent this kind of merger from happeneing? It certainly looks and smells like a monopoly, but I think antitrust laws are meant to apply to particular industries, not just "hotel/casinos within a few miles of each other." There's certainly not a law against one company owning all the property in an area (look at Disney World!) That doesn't mean this merger's not bad news for the consumer, though. Of course, there are still a number of non-MGM properties around Las Vegas--- Palace Station, the Rio, downtown, the Stratosphere, etc. I did read in the paper that MGM has no plans to raze any of the casinos it owns... what that probably means is that there's no IMMEDIATE plans to do so, but I'm sure they've got some big renovation plans here and there. I have nothing against the general idea that Vegas should mostly be an adult playtown, but surely MGM can see that there's value in not making every hotel the same. Okay, adults who want the traditional Vegas appeal factors may be your biggest target group, but they're hardly the only segment of the population. Adam From gustavo_queiroz@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 08:23:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gustavo_queiroz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58644 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 15:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 15:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web11603.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.172.55) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 15:23:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20040701152315.38869.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [161.114.1.184] by web11603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 08:23:15 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 08:23:15 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.172.55 From: Gustavo Queiroz Subject: Re: Help Planning My Vacations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63357662 X-Yahoo-Profile: gustavo_queiroz Hey, my special thanks to Brian, Adam, Cameron and Sean for the suggestions about my vacations. Brian, yes, this is the same Gus that would be extremely happy to have you around here in Rio. It's getting tuff to find a good route since all mid-west parks are closed in Sep-Oct during weekdays. So I have 2 options: 1) Fly to Vancouver, stay there for a week (sightseeing + Whistler + RyePlayland), and then fly to LA to spend another week there (Disney, DCA, Knott's, SFMM and USH). Then, back to Rio. 2) Fly from Rio to Toronto, stay there for a week (sightseeing again + friends), and then fly to Cedar Point on a Friday Night, spend the weekend there, go to Quebec City or Montreal (sightseeing again + friends). Then back to Rio a week after. Never been to CP. Last time in CA, was in 2000. Best, Gus. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From aelk2004@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 09:18:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56584 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 16:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 16:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 16:18:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.143] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 16:17:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 16:17:46 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 389 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Off Topic: Vacation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 Well, I'll be off for the next week for a little "Non-Coaster" vacation (Actually, it's a Square Dance Convention). This also means I'll be without an Internet connection (No, I never travel with a computer). So, I want you all to play nice, and have fun this Holiday weekend! George (et al), I'll catch-up on your trip(s) when I get back. Water the plants while I'm gone. ttfn...Alan From aelk2004@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 09:30:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82897 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 16:30:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 16:30:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 16:30:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 16:30:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 16:30:08 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040701152315.38869.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 670 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.93 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: Help Planning My Vacations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Gustavo Queiroz wrote: SNIP > So I have 2 options: > > 1) Fly to Vancouver, stay there for a week > (sightseeing + Whistler + RyePlayland), and then fly > to LA to spend another week there (Disney, DCA, > Knott's, SFMM and USH). Then, back to Rio. > > 2) Fly from Rio to Toronto, stay there for a week > (sightseeing again + friends), and then fly to Cedar > Point on a Friday Night, spend the weekend there, go > to Quebec City or Montreal (sightseeing again + > friends). Then back to Rio a week after. > Hmm... Friends or Amusement Parks, Friends or Amusement Parks? That's a tough one! -Alan From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 10:16:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90401 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 17:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 17:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 17:16:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.182] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 17:16:04 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:16:03 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 614 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "Adam Sandy" X-Originating-IP: 64.238.5.14 Subject: Re: Canobie Lake Park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > Anyone ever been here? We're thinking of going next saturday, the 10th. I really enjoyed my time at Canobie (my last trip was in 2000, I might stop by late in the summer). The woodie, Yankee Cannonball, is a really fun little ride...but it often uses only one train. The other steel coasters are pretty standard for the makes. So unique flats are the Caterpillar with cover, an SDC Telecombat, a Double Shot, a Wood Design swing ride, a dark ride as-well-as a great kiddie area. I found the park really beauitful after the sun went down with 40's-era music and lots of great ride lighting. Adam From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 10:24:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72479 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 17:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 17:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 17:24:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 17:24:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:24:38 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040701152315.38869.qmail@web11603.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1084 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: Help Planning My Vacations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Gustavo Queiroz wrote: > 1) Fly to Vancouver, stay there for a week > (sightseeing + Whistler + RyePlayland), and then fly > to LA to spend another week there (Disney, DCA, > Knott's, SFMM and USH). Then, back to Rio. Looks like a tough decision; the issue with the northern parks only being open on weekends is a bummer. Vancouver's a great city; I just got back. If you go, be sure to spend a day over in Victoria, particularly at the Butchart Gardens. Another side trip in Southern California I'd recommend is Legoland, if you've never been. There's only a handful of kiddie-to-junior level rides, but the real attraction are the incredible Lego models all around the park, particularly in the Miniland section. I could spend hours just admiring those. It's a very clean and attractive park. But I can't make the decision for you... personally, I'd go to the area I hadn't been to before, but if you really enjoyed yourself the last time you were in SoCal, I can't deny that I like it here, too! Adam From tommytheduck@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 12:15:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: tommytheduck@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50652 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 19:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 19:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 19:15:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 19:15:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:15:33 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 452 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.67 From: "Brian Farral" X-Originating-IP: 24.53.69.161 Subject: Bells Amusement Park July 3rd X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=64391012 X-Yahoo-Profile: tommytheduck I'll be overnighting in Tulsa on July 3rd and getting in to the hotel a little before 8pm. Thinking of taking a cab over to Bells for the few hours before they close at 11pm. Anyone live in the areaand want to meet up? I doubt I'll be able to talk my crew into coming with me. Also what is the park like? Their website is horrible and contains no information at all about what kind of rides they have, other than the coaster. AFLAC!!! -Brian F. From Jon.Zucker@us.abb.com Thu Jul 01 12:36:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jon.zucker@us.abb.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28681 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 19:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 19:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO us.abb.com) (12.40.253.142) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from ([10.92.254.212]) by ussmtp04.us.abb.com with ESMTP ; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:33:14 -0400 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:32:52 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MAIL05.US.ABB.COM/SRV/ABB(Release 5.0.13a |April 8, 2004) at 07/01/2004 03:32:52 PM, Serialize complete at 07/01/2004 03:32:52 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 12.40.253.142 From: Jon.Zucker@us.abb.com Subject: Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain "Must-rides" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=45154829 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 <<< Every single roller coaster at Six Flags Magic Mountain is fun, but out of the sixteen roller coasters, here are the must-rides. I found Chang to be much more thrilling than Riddler's Revenge. Must-rides Batman:the Ride(especially, or you'll regret it) Deja Vu Flashback(one of the best) Ninja(especially, this ride rocks!) Scream! Revolution Colossus Goliath Viper Others Riddler's Revenge Goldrusher Canyon Blaster Psyclone Goliath, Jr. Superman: the Escape >>> Interesting list, but I sure do disagree with some of your opinions... I agree that Batman's a must-ride. But Flashback?! This is the one that really provoked me into responding: you call it one of the best! To me (and I know, to many others), this is the WORST still-standing coaster on the planet. It's a painful, twisty little mutant that I'd like to see sold off for scrap. Although I haven't ridden Chang, I have ridden Mantis (at CP), and I thought RR was a much better stand-up: smooth, long, lots of tolerable forces (both positive and negative Gs), interesting layout, and no headbanging. Deja Vu, Ninja, Scream!, Superman, Goliath, Goliath Jr are all rides I've never gotten to experience, so I can't comment firsthand, but I've never heard anybody else say that Ninja "rocks!". Jon Z (anticipating Tsunami) The First From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Thu Jul 01 14:41:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22687 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 21:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 21:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 21:41:17 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.92.ec11159 (4560) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92.ec11159.2e15def9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:41:13 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.6 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain "Must-rides" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2004 3:39:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jon.Zucker@us.abb.com writes: But Flashback?! This is the one that really provoked me into responding: you call it one of the best! To me (and I know, to many others), this is the WORST still-standing coaster on the planet. It's a painful, twisty little mutant that I'd like to see sold off for scrap. Joe's response: I guess Screaming Squirrel's don't count as it's a similiar type of ride as I've checked out the specs. It definitely looks like a neck breaker type of ride also. Never, Ever, Lose Sight of the Thrill! Joe THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING - NHL CHAMPIONS, 2004 IN THE WARRIOR'S CODE, THERE IS NO SURRENDER! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 15:20:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20526 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 22:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 22:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 22:20:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2004 22:20:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:20:43 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <147.2d5f433e.2e14eaa4@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 854 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Las Vegas Majority of attractions VS MGM Grand X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/2004 8:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lance@s... writes: > I can't help thinking... aren't there Anti-Trust / Anti-Monopoly Laws to > prevent this kind of merger from happeneing? That's way too much control > for one company to have over the entire city of Las Vegas. Control that > could be used to effectivly shut down virtually every other major casino > in town, and money to buy up anyone that they can't kill off. > Well apparantly there aren't any because the county is allowing it. I wonder if MGM will just own Vegas one > day. > John > Mr. Stratosphere I can see the sign now: Now entering Las Vegas pop # alt. A subsidiary of MGM Chris B Who's going to use his three day weekend to visit several smaller parks around Tokyo :) From Cyclonic07@aol.com Thu Jul 01 16:38:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57071 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 23:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 23:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 23:38:50 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1d2.24f77db2 (14374) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1d2.24f77db2.2e15fa71@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:38:25 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.37 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Canobie Lake Park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:17:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, afrsandy@yahoo.com writes: > Anyone ever been here? We're thinking of going next saturday, the 10th. I really enjoyed my time at Canobie (my last trip was in 2000, I might stop by late in the summer). The woodie, Yankee Cannonball, is a really fun little ride...but it often uses only one train. The other steel coasters are pretty standard for the makes. So unique flats are the Caterpillar with cover, an SDC Telecombat, a Double Shot, a Wood Design swing ride, a dark ride as-well-as a great kiddie area. I found the park really beauitful after the sun went down with 40's-era music and lots of great ride lighting. *************************************************** How did I miss this thread? I was there last month, and it is a wonderful little park. Sadly, the Telecombat is gone. As Adam said, they have several classic rides, as well as some newer rides. Yankee Cannonball is a nice coaster, and while the other coasters there compliment it well, they are nothing spectacular. One thing I really found great was their arcades. I love classic video and pinball games, and they have them in spades, and all in top working condition. Best park arcade I have seen, including CP's. The park was very clean, the food was OK, but nothing spiecal. And the park really does come to life at night, though the night I was there the place was dead (re: lots of riding that night), but it looks phenomenal. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Cyclonic07@aol.com Thu Jul 01 16:41:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99322 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 23:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2004 23:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 23:41:42 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.b2.2dfe131c (14374) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:41:35 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.137 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain "Must-rides" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2004 6:17:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, thunder7nyfl@aol.com writes: But Flashback?! This is the one that really provoked me into responding: you call it one of the best! To me (and I know, to many others), this is the WORST still-standing coaster on the planet. It's a painful, twisty little mutant that I'd like to see sold off for scrap. Joe's response: I guess Screaming Squirrel's don't count as it's a similiar type of ride as I've checked out the specs. It definitely looks like a neck breaker type of ride also. Never, Ever, Lose Sight of the Thrill! Joe *************************************************** Check those specs again, and then watch a video, they are totally different rides in the way they work. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Cyclonic07@aol.com Thu Jul 01 17:02:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36035 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 00:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 00:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 00:02:41 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.23.40b181d9 (14374) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <23.40b181d9.2e16001e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:02:38 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.6 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Help Planning My Vacations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:11:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, gustavo_queiroz@yahoo.com writes: 1) Choosing the best dates: either I can schedule my vacations to a) SEP 4 until SEP 26 --OR-- b) OCT 9 until OCT 31. So, a or b? 2) Where to go in US? If I choose Cedar Point, what are the other parks nearby? If I choose PA, what are the parks (Dorney, Hershey, Knoebels, Kennywood)? 3) Is there anyone who would like to joing me (I am clean, cute, smart, smell good, dress well, love coasters, LOL!)? *************************************************** I would choose the week in October, and the PA parks trip. While PA parks are also open only on weekends, you could start your week at Knoebels for the Phoenix Phall Phunfest, which is on the ninth of October this year, and is one of the top coaster events of the year. It is also cheap and you don't have to be in any club to enjoy it. After that, Hersheypark is just an hour and a half away, as is Dorney Park. You could check out NYC, Philly, and/or Washington, which are all close by, during the week, or head westward towards Ohio and Cedar Point. But getting in on PPP is a great suggestion for you, as it is a great event. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dj72scorp@excite.com Thu Jul 01 18:14:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dj72scorp@excite.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92360 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 01:14:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 01:14:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 01:14:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.145] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 01:14:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 01:14:51 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040629152128.8280.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 582 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Dollywood (June 14th and 15th) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63326682 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, cameron@b... wrote: >> OOhh yeah. I never thought I'd see more over-weight people than I have > at Holiday World .. but Dollywood far out-did that. What was actually > quite depressing was the number of over-weight kids .. these actually > out-numbered the number of red-raw sun-burned kids (which also depresses > me). Why are so many parents such idiots?! i remember about a month ago Time ran a story about obesity and where the worst areas for it was-it was a huge swath that ran through pretty much all of the southern states. From dj72scorp@excite.com Thu Jul 01 18:19:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dj72scorp@excite.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99843 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 01:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 01:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 01:19:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 01:19:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 01:19:51 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 829 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Dollywood (June 14th and 15th) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63326682 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "George Burnash" wrote: > > For > > anyone planning a visit to Dollywood, I strongly suggest finding a > > hotel in near-by Gatlinburg - which is a delightful little town > further > > up in the hills. > > Ahh, to late. Already have something booked in Pigeon Forge, and > based on the wonderful time I had trying to find something online, I > think I'm going to stick with what I have. Hopefully it'll work out > well though, since we're only planning on being there one night and > that will only be to sleep. ah, dont listen to Cam. pigeon forge is a hoot-trashy? absolutely, but if you just let yourself enjoy the campiness of it, its a lot of fun. hell george, you are going to be a southerner soon enough, might as well jump right in head first! From dj72scorp@excite.com Thu Jul 01 18:22:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dj72scorp@excite.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3000 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 01:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 01:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 01:22:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 01:22:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 01:22:32 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <159.38c83a70.2e13b079@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 537 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: What do you want your park to get for 2005? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63326682 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: >> Can't wait to see if that freefall drop off the side of the building > happens though. Especially with the temperature change between the > top and bottom of it! .... i wanted to name it Over the > Edge, since the other two rides' names fit the location, High Roller, and Big > Shot, which can also mean people who play in casinos, the rich high rollers, > and those big shots. well since its a freefall, what else could you call it but 'Double Down'! From dj72scorp@excite.com Thu Jul 01 18:24:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dj72scorp@excite.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85369 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 01:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 01:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 01:24:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.187] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 01:24:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 01:24:12 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 401 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Canobie Lake Park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63326682 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 - In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Farral" wrote: > Anyone ever been here? We're thinking of going next saturday, the 10th. > > AFLAC!!! > > -Brian F. brian, where ya been?! we just went, and have been discussing it for a week or so here! i even wrote a TR(did one the past couple of years too, i think). shoot me an email if you go, maybe we can meet up. From tommytheduck@yahoo.com Thu Jul 01 19:12:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: tommytheduck@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59649 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 02:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 02:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.104) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 02:12:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 02:12:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 02:12:32 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 787 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.104 From: "Brian Farral" X-Originating-IP: 24.53.69.161 Subject: Re: Canobie Lake Park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=64391012 X-Yahoo-Profile: tommytheduck - > brian, > > where ya been?! we just went, and have been discussing it for a week > or so here! i even wrote a TR(did one the past couple of years too, > i think). shoot me an email if you go, maybe we can meet up. Yeah, I remember it now. i think I just skimmed through it with the attitude of "well, there's a park I'll probably never get too." Little did I know that I'd be scheduled for such an early overnight in MHT. We'll probably get our rental car and drive to the beach for the afternoon and then hit up the park for the after 5 discount. Yeah, we can meet up. I'll get back in touch with you next week in a private email, (this one probably could have been a personal one as well, oh well, sorry everyone.) and we can work out the details. AFLAC!!! -Brian F. From cameron@buzzneon.com Thu Jul 01 20:39:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60940 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 03:39:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 03:39:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 03:39:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 24297 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2004 03:39:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20040702033930.24296.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:39:30 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Doug Nelson" at Jul 02, 2004 01:14:51 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Trip Report: Dollywood (June 14th and 15th) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > OOhh yeah. I never thought I'd see more over-weight people than I > > have at Holiday World .. but Dollywood far out-did that. > > i remember about a month ago Time ran a story about obesity and > where the worst areas for it was-it was a huge swath that ran > through pretty much all of the southern states. I remember that .. I was surprised that Chicago was in the top 5 fattest cities (or maybe top 3 .. ). Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Keep this frequency * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** clear. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From Cyclonic07@aol.com Thu Jul 01 20:49:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39489 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 03:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 03:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 03:49:34 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.84.2d3d5f5f (1320) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84.2d3d5f5f.2e163548@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:49:28 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.136 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Trip Report: Dollywood (June 14th and 15th) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2004 9:21:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, dj72scorp@excite.com writes: ah, dont listen to Cam. pigeon forge is a hoot-trashy? absolutely, but if you just let yourself enjoy the campiness of it, its a lot of fun. hell george, you are going to be a southerner soon enough, might as well jump right in head first! *************************************************** Florida is actually part of the South? ;-) Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lance@screamscape.com Thu Jul 01 21:13:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68582 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 04:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 04:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 04:13:43 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i624DehN046360 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:13:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 80079 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 04:13:04 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 04:13:04 -0000 Message-ID: <012901c45fea$e7b82ed0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:13:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] RE: Misc:B&M Website??? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] RE: Misc:B&M Website??? > In a message dated 6/29/2004 12:30:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, > lance@screamscape.com writes: > Didn't they file a lawsuit against some poor guy who had made a fan B&M > website > under the BollengerandMabiard.com (sp?) web domain and had the domain > forceably > taken from the guy because they said they wanted to use it for themselves? > There is a website www.bolliger-mabillard.com, but there is no content. > Go figure, maybe this is the site you're referring to. Yes, that is the site I was thinking of... they stole it from the poor guy and left it to rot and aren't doing a think with it. The site is now registered to Bolliger, Walter or Bolliger & Mabillard Consulting Engineers, Inc. Plus it seems they do have an official web domain of their own as well listed, but there is no content there either: www.bmdesign.ch From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 01 23:16:40 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64595 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 06:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 06:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 06:16:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.145] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 06:16:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:16:39 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 11991 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "George Burnash" X-Originating-IP: 12.160.113.103 Subject: TR: Frontier City (it's a long one) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Frontier City The People- me and Dave The Day- Monday, June 28 Crowds- very light Weather- comfortable, threatening to have T-storms, though it never really did. We stopped at a Microtel hotel about an hour to 90 minutes outside of Oklahoma City the night before, and while it rained while we slept, the weather was very nice to us this day, never really giving the rain that we were expecting. That was a very nice thing. I had heard some about Frontier City, but not a whole lot, and what I had heard had been almost entirely negative. Comments like, "the pit" and "the dredges of the Six Flags" chain were not uncommon. So we arrived with low expectations. We were there at 9:25, expecting a 10:00 opening and wanting to be a bit early. Turns out the park opened at 10:30 (check your schedules!) and we were the second car into the parking lot when it did open. We had a laugh because for a while, we were the only non-pickup in the parking lot, and didn't see a car arrive until about 15-20 minutes after the lot opened. Everyone else was in trucks. Anyways, we went to the ticket booth and asked about our season passes being valid, though I didn't expect them to be, and offered my $10 off coupon also. Instead, the lady at the window waved away the coupon and gave us half price admissions since we had Six Flags passes, which saved us about $10 more than the coupon would have. Very nice and friendly about it to. The same was true for the gentleman at the gates where you enter the park, and where we waited a bit. Very friendly, and we had a good time bantering with him while we waited. Some big differences between this and other Six Flags parks- no metal detectors, no bag checks, no big crowds (they thought that 7000 was a large crowd), and very laid back. The entry is also quite a bit different, with only about 5 or 6 entry lanes, though if crowds are that small they don't need any more. You also enter by walking into a very large gift shop first, that has a couple of exits into the main park, the entry for the Diamondback coaster, and an animatronic bear show. Quite different, but we thought it was very nice. We wanted to start with Diamondback, but it was closed to start the day (as we had been warned by the gate keeper that it might be for a short time), and Nightmare, an indoor mouse, was closed also, with the man at the gate saying that it's probably done for good as there had been talk that it was no longer safe to operate. If the small portion of track that could be seen outside is any indication, it's an old mouse, so I wouldn't be surprised there. But still sad, none the less. So instead, after opening, we headed to the back of the small park, walking past a beautiful western town setting with shops and restaurants, past several flat rides, including an inverter, pirate ship, a yoyo themed with sixguns on the side, and some others, and ended up at the Silver Bullet, a Schwarzkopf single looping formerly portable coaster. Silver Bullet delivered a great ride- every single one, including the several rerides we took all over the train. With no lines this early, we were free to pick our seats out, though once a line appeared later the seat selection instead became assigned seating based on where you were in line. With the small station that was built with these, that makes sense. And since the coaster delivers all over the train, it wasn't that big a deal, though the back certainly has a much more intense pull down on the drop. It was a great coaster, and one we enjoyed thoroughly, getting a score of 8-8.5 on my 10 point scale. We checked out the Wildcat wood coaster, but it was still closed as they were getting it ready to open. So we walked a bit and checked out other parts of the park, including taking a ride on the Casino (a trabant), their elevated ferris wheel (the Grand Centennial), and admiring the scenery. Finally the Wildcat opened, and we hopped on, taking rides in the front, middle, back, and Schmeck seat. Wildcat is an NAD built coaster that resided somewhere else previously (sorry, forgot where), that when the park closed, ACE helped get it moved and rebuilt here. And it looks like they did a nice job with it, including a very nice plaque outside the coaster, and several displays in the queue area featuring other "landmark" coasters to. So how come ACE never talks about this one as much as they talk about the Leap the Dips? I didn't have a clue that they had a thing to do with this. Oh well, that's another discussion. In any case, the Wildcat is a fairly basic out and back wood coaster with a steel support structure, and it delivers an ok ride. It had a couple of nice pops of air, and wasn't rough in any way, but it didn't do a whole lot. Fun, and one that we enjoyed, but with Silver Bullet sitting so close to it, it was easy to choose which one we preferred. But on the scale, it would probably get a 6.5 to a 7. We then took a walk down the back pathway a bit and went by the Eruption, their S&S slingshot type of ride with 3 towers (can you tell I'm writing this on the road since I can't remember any of these names? Hehe) And we came across a big surprise- it's free! No paying $10 a ride for this one! So heck, with that great deal, we jogged in line while it was still short and took a ride. I didn't like how painful the lapbar portion of the restraints were, and miss the harnesses that the first versions of these used, but it was certainly a faster boarding procedure than they used to be. And it was still a lot of fun, delivering a very good ride. Still not sure that's something that I would more than about $5 for, but one I won't pass up at the price they charge here- as long as the line isn't to long. Hehe We took a round on the rapids, which were very wet, had some great waterfalls and targeting blasters instead of the normal one shot cannons, and emerged pretty much soaked from that. So we took a round on their Huss enterprise to dry out a bit, a round on the go carts (which I lost due to my car being slower- I hate delimiters sometimes. ) and headed over to the Hangman Hangman is a tower ride that looks a bit like an S&S, but up close you can tell it certainly isn't one. There's no air tanks or mechanics in the tower itself, they're all in a building on the side. And the seats go in a round circle around the tower instead of a box formation. It also ran a very odd program. You sit for a while after it lifts you up a couple of feet before it finally shoots you up towards the top, where you stop a good bit short of the tower. Then it slowly cranks you up to the very top of it, pause, and it free fall drops you down, where it has a low brake. It just felt very odd compared to the other tower drop rides, and left me kind of wondering what the heck it was. At this point, we were starting to get close to the park front again, so we made our way back to Diamond Back, which was now open and running. Diamond Back is an Arrow version of the shuttle loop, with the station being at one end, and both ends being elevated. And it was also the source of our one real area of displeasure. This thing just hurt, all the way around. From the first drop, to the jack hammer at the bottom of it, to the anything-but-smooth loop, to the jackhammering rise up to the other side, then doing it in reverse (while the op kindly waved to us as we started backwards, with a look of pure pity on her face). Bad all the way around, and with it being so close to the entrance, I can see how this could ruin people's days at the park if it was the first thing they rode. Since we had seen so much we liked already, it didn't affect us that much. But it certainly showed why so few of these exist. It gets a lowly 2.5 from me. Ouch. Somewhere in here, we ate lunch at the pizza restaurant, since the BBQ and Mexican restaurants were closed (which didn't bother or surprise me since it was a Monday) Typically expensive, and bland in flavor, but the slices were large, and what they didn't have in sauce flavor, they made up for in abundant cheese. Not great, but not bad either. The log flume had been having trouble all day, and hadn't opened yet, but we walked by anyways, and as we were looking, they started to load it, so we hopped in. Watching the testing procedures were quite interesting, as the unload station seemed to be having problems, and the op seemed to be doing anything but what the mechanic working on the ride wanted him to do. But they got it sorted out and we hopped on for what we found to be a very fun ride. There are a few scenes on it, and some very nice dark ride sections in it that we found a lot of fun. And it's a very wet log flume- a theme that we found throughout the trip so far. I'm so used to ones that only sprinkle you, that it's been great to see so many really get you wet! But it was a good thing we rode it when we did. When we got off, and walked around part of it to take some other pictures of the sets, it apparently jammed again. I was waiting at the flumes exit from its tunnels, and realized that there weren't any boats going through. Apparently the motor on the small lift out of the tunnel quit, and there were loaded boats stuck inside, as we could hear them yelling. I don't have any idea how long it took them to sort that out. We also took a ride on their haunted house, which had a lot of the standard gags on it, and the "bus hitting you" one was very effective. Especially in comparison to Wonderland's feeble attempt at the train the day before. Not great, but not bad, and worth a ride or two. Before we left, we also decided to take in a couple of shows. Their western stunt show was very well done, with some great work on it, a good storyline (missing in most of these shows now, it seems) and having a great time with one of the guys when he realized I was from CA and wanted to know if they did a better show than Knott's. I had to agree that they did, since there was so much more to it, and they seemed to have a lot of fun with it while doing some very well done stuff. It's certainly something not to miss. Neither is the magic show, which was also a lot of fun. While the poor girl at the snack bar in the theater was bored to tears (she hadn't seen anyone in 45 minutes when she served us) she was very friendly, and the show was very well done. Dave was picked as their human assistant, and I can't wait to tell his wife that he was off tying up a pretty lady, stuck together with her for a bit, and when they came out he was missing some clothing (the suit jacket they gave him to wear, which she was wearing underneath the ropes they had tied earlier before she was wearing it). One of my big beefs with parks lately has been the lack of shows, especially good quality ones, and Frontier City got big points from us here. We did a bit of shopping after that, and then hit the road to Tulsa, for a brief stop at Bell's, (another report) then on to my mother's in Missouri. Overall, we really enjoyed Frontier City. The workers were very friendly overall, though a couple were a bit on the slow moving side. But that seems to be the overall pace of life in this area to, so it didn't bother me that much. And with it being a sparsely attended Monday with plenty of time, there wasn't any reason to rush anything anyways. If anything, it was nice to slow down, take our time, and talk with the workers while we enjoyed the park. It was clean, and looked to be kept up very nice. Outside of a couple of rides being closed that I wanted to ride (and that's not really a complaint anyways), and the one horrible ride, we thought it was a very nice park and one that we would certainly like to return to again at a future date. Keep on ridin' George From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 01 23:17:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5378 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 06:17:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 06:17:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 06:17:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.124] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 06:17:30 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:17:29 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4845 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "George Burnash" X-Originating-IP: 12.160.113.103 Subject: TR: Bell's Amusement Park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Bell's Amusement Park Date: Monday, June 28 People: me and Dave Weather: a bit muggy, and threatening to rain. Crowds: very light After being at Frontier City earlier in the day, we made a fairly brief stop at Bell's on the way to Missouri. Again, as has been typical, we arrived before the park opened. I had looked for discounts, but hadn't been able to find to many. However, we were blessed in that Mondays are "buy one, get one free" nights, which applied to the pay one price wristbands. We took them up on the deal, and when they finally opened, paid for the bands, got our tickets, and then headed over to the guest relations window where we actually got the wristbands. At this point, we had been admiring the front of the park, which looks very nice. Zingo, their 1951 wood coaster, sits around the front, with the entrance actually being through the coaster, and providing some great looks at it when you come in. So that was the first place we went. We walked in the station, sat down in the front row, and promptly had to wait about 10 minutes for them to get enough people to fill the one PTC train they had on the coaster. While the station and train seem to have arrived in the last couple of years, everything else about the coaster shows that it is an older coaster- though a very well maintained one. Hand brake levers are still used, along with skid brakes, and it gives the coaster a very nice charm to it. It starts out with a turn around out of the station, up the lift hill, where it turns around again, then starts the out run, which consists of a series of 3 drops and hills, then it turns around again, and gives a series of smaller hills, some of which can give some nice air, though not a whole lot. We tried several spots, and found that the back can give some very nice airtime on the return run to the station, but it comes at a price. The first 3 drops can be quite severe in the back, and the second was downright painful, with the slam at the bottom managing to tighten my lapbar down another notch quite forcefully. So if you can manage to prepare for those, you can have a good ride in the back. Otherwise, it's fun, but not a lot to it. 7 out of 10. Bell's has a nice, gas powered, multi-leveled car ride which we passed on, some bumper boats, which we rode and stayed dry on, and a very nice log flume. At one point you go "inside" a mountain they have built for some scenery. There's nothing inside of it except to see the steel framework of it, but it was still nice to see something different. The boats are also a bit odd, in that all there is inside of them is just a plain bench. No handbars, foot rests, backrests, etc., making it a bit difficult to hold on and brace yourself. But it was also very wet, and with the humidity, that felt great! At this point, we decided to take a walk to the back of the park, and what a change. The front is beautiful, well taken care of, and has the look and feel of a permanent park. The back consists of several carnival rides that look like they were tossed back there as leftovers from the "Tulsa State Fair" that also operates next door. (BTW, when did Tulsa become a state? Hehe) The couple of rides that interested us were closed. So we took a round in their haunted house, which was alright (the multi-levels were fun) and laughed about some of the signage on it. Then headed back to the front of the park since there was little else in the back. We took a round on the sky ride to get some pictures (and making sure we didn't do anything to land us in the "spitter's bench") then looked around for a souvenier booth. None. No gift shop either. But rather than just leave this time, I decided to ask at the gust relations window where we got our wristbands earlier. There they had some baseball caps, a couple of shirts, and some bells for sale, but I never would have known that was where to get them if I hadn't been so determined to ask. But still, the Bell's bells were cheap (only $3 each), but likely because they were desperate to get ride of them since no one knew they were there. At that point, our time was about up, so we headed out and hit the road. Bell's was interesting. Some of the employees were very nice, a lot seemed very unmotivated to do much of anything- including converse with us when they were otherwise sitting there doing nothing. The front of the park looked great, but the back was just plain ugly, and almost embarrassing after seeing the front of it. So it had a very odd dichotomy to it. I was happy to visit, but sadly I'm not sure if it's a park that I would want to return to very much. And that's not a feeling I like when so many of the parks like this are struggling just to make it. keep on ridin' George From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 02 00:29:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12465 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 07:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 07:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 07:29:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.253] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 07:29:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 07:29:27 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <92.ec11159.2e15def9@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2666 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "George Burnash" X-Originating-IP: 12.160.113.100 Subject: Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain "Must-rides" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:32:52 -0400, wrote: > Must-rides > > Batman:the Ride(especially, or you'll regret it) > Deja Vu > Flashback(one of the best) > Ninja(especially, this ride rocks!) > Scream! > Revolution > Colossus > Goliath > Viper > > Others > > Riddler's Revenge > Goldrusher > Canyon Blaster > Psyclone > Goliath, Jr. > Superman: the Escape > Interesting list, but I sure do disagree with some of your > opinions... > > I agree that Batman's a must-ride. > > But Flashback?! This is the one that really provoked me into > responding: you call it one of the best! To me (and I know, to many > others), this is the WORST still-standing coaster on the planet. It's a > painful, twisty little mutant that I'd like to see sold off for scrap. Oh come now Jon. Really. Don't be so kind to Flashback, as it's much, much worse than that. I don't know that I've ever hated a coaster so much, except maybe it's sister in pain and torture on the other side of the park, Psyclone. I don't know how anyone can possibly like either one. But every now and then I run into someone that seems to like being put in traction... :P > > Although I haven't ridden Chang, I have ridden Mantis (at CP), and > I thought RR was a much better stand-up: smooth, long, lots of tolerable > forces (both positive and negative Gs), interesting layout, and no > headbanging. Mantis, in a word, sucks. I found nothing to like about it, from the trim on the first drop to the headbanging throughout the ride. Chang, on the other hand, was a very good, fun coaster. And Riddler's is a tad bit better. Both of those are must rides in my book. > > Deja Vu, Ninja, Scream!, Superman, Goliath, Goliath Jr are all > rides I've never gotten to experience, so I can't comment firsthand, but > I've never heard anybody else say that Ninja "rocks!". Actually, we really like Ninja- especially at night. Of the suspended coasters I've been on, it's easily the one that I like the best. It's one of those rides that, for me at least, is just plain fun and that I can ride over and over again. Great ride. Let me add, to, that Colossus is a shadow of it's former self and is far from the "must ride" status that it used to be in. And Scream, IMO, is nothing to write home about. It's not a bad coaster, but it's not super impressive either. There are a lot of coasters that I prefer over it (but then a lot that I dislike a lot more than it to) And don't forget that Superman will be closed until next year, at least. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 02 00:30:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42307 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 07:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 07:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 07:30:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.160] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jul 2004 07:30:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 07:30:11 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1466 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.74 From: "George Burnash" X-Originating-IP: 12.160.113.100 Subject: Re: Bells Amusement Park July 3rd X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:15:33 -0000, Brian Farral wrote: > I'll be overnighting in Tulsa on July 3rd and getting in to the hotel > a little before 8pm. Thinking of taking a cab over to Bells for the > few hours before they close at 11pm. Anyone live in the areaand want > to meet up? I doubt I'll be able to talk my crew into coming with me. > Also what is the park like? Their website is horrible and contains > no information at all about what kind of rides they have, other than > the coaster. Sorry I missed your phone call Brian. My mother lives in a valley area here in Missouri, and cell phone reception is very spotty at the best of times near her home. And that's where I happened to be when you called. I got my TR up for the park, so hope that helps out some. They offer a pay one price wristband for $17, or you can buy ride tickets. Rides that I recall off the top of my head included: Zingo (coaster) car ride bumper boats sky ride (one ride goes to end of park and back) log flume 2 enclosed water slides using rafts old portable haunted house pirate ship Himalaya (was closed when we were there) tilt a whirl octopus/ monster and some kiddie rides. I'm likely missing one or two rides there also, but that covers most of the park. Hope that helps, along with the TR. Otherwise ask away. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From afrsandy@yahoo.com Fri Jul 02 05:46:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16267 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 12:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 12:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:46:31 -0000 To: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:46:25 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.223 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: NEWS: Golden Nugget Rides Again X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Found this on Screamscape this morning. Adam ----------- Golden Nugget Rides Again Story by Mary Lebeau / June 30, 2004 Vintage postcard of the Golden Nugget (Laff in the Dark) Later this year, The Golden Nugget, one of Wildwood, N.J.'s only remaining mid-twentieth-century amusement park rides, will be moved from its current boardwalk location on Hunt's Pier to Mariner's Landing, another carnival site across the beach. The trip, which will take approximately 35 days, will preempt a large-scale restoration of the 60-year-old ridewhich will reopen in time for next year's summer activities. The mining-themed Golden Nugget was the only true "dark ride" produced by the old Philadelphia Toboggan Company during the 1950s. At that time, Hunts' Pier was a prime vacation-spot for Philadelphia families seeking a break from the city, and the Golden Nuggetwhich winds through an abandoned mine set on roller coaster trackswas one amusement worth the long lines and the extravagant (40-cent) price. During Wildwood's heyday, the two-mile boardwalk was alive with tourists from Philadelphia and neighboring suburbs; they would spend their evenings waiting in long lines for a ride on the City Jet or the Whacky Shack, then head off the boards with their walk-away sundaes and waxed paper bags of warm potato chips. Their destinations: over 300 "Googie"-style, neon-adorned motels, with names like the Ebb Tide, the Starlux, and the Satellite. Now, the structures once considered "tacky" are being appreciated as examples of retro-modern design, and tourists are again traveling to Wildwoodthis time to appreciate the country's largest collection of mid-century resort architecture. "We came to the realization that we have our own unique character," says Wildwood mayor Douglas Sloan. In recent years, The Society for Commercial Archaeology referred to Wildwood as "the best collection of post-World War II resort architecture in the country." The Golden Nugget's upcoming relocation and renovation, which will be spearheaded by local coaster-preservation team Comeback Coasters, marks the latest chapter in the coastal city's retro-renaissance. *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From jay@karenandjay.com Fri Jul 02 06:46:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48978 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 13:46:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 13:46:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 13:46:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:44:07 -0700 Message-Id: <200407020644.AA1543504078@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: Canobie Lake Park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme >Anyone ever been here? We're thinking of going next saturday, the 10th. < It's the most beautiful park in New England. The Yankee Cannonball is a delight. Be sure to ride the Mine of the Lost Souls, the Boston Tea Party, the Caterpillar and Crystal Maze, one of the few remaining mirror mazes in the country. Their unique carousel has a great-sounding organ. Also, their arcade is a warehouse of antique machines. Have a great time! Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Fri Jul 02 06:53:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55545 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 13:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 13:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 13:53:29 -0000 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:51:25 -0700 Message-Id: <200407020651.AA4176871726@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: Rhode Island Carousels X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme > I guess it was pretty neet to see, but >I would have liked to ride it. Janice and I agreed that had we known >we couldn't we probably would not have driven all the way down there. < Well, you can now say that you've seen the oldest operating carousel in the country. Did you make it to Crescent Park? That's home to Charles Loofe's favorite creation. It's still in pretty good shape, with a great band organ. I got together a couple days ago with the guy who was the ride's caretaker for many years. BTW, the Holyoke Merry-Go-Round was host to the Bose audio corporation. The company had traveled across the country searching for a band organ to record for a surround-sound demo film they're making. They felt that our ride had the best-sounding band organ they had heard. That was quite a compliment! Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 02 07:48:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36559 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 14:48:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 14:48:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 14:48:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 22492 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2004 14:48:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20040702144823.22491.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com (Talk Coaster) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 09:48:23 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: TR: Santa Lan - Theme Park And Zoo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon On Wednesday morning it was time to leave (flee!) "lovely" Pigeon Forge. While I hated to say bye to Dollywood, I was anxious to leave the town itself. Since the drive to Carowinds was only around 4 hours, I decided to take my time. Rather than head straight back out to the interstate, I took the back roads through Gatlinburg and the Smokey Mountains. It was freaking AWESOME! Being from the stupid mid-west, I'm rather geographically challenged, so I was thrilled to see the beautiful mountains. I took a few pictures, but such scenery is almost impossible to capture on 'film': http://www.buzzneon.com/summer_2004/pictures_dollywood_charlotte/scenic_drive/ On the North Carolina side of the Mountains, I stumbled across "Santa's Land: Theme Park and Zoo"! I almost drove off the road when I saw the signs, so I just had to stop. Date: Wednesday June 16th Weather: Sunny, warm, mid-80s. Crowds: Almost nill There seems to be an abundance of small, Christmas themed parks around the US, and I imagine they are pretty much all like this place. I could totally picture Holiday World being like this about 20 years ago. The park itself, despite its size, was really lovely. Big trees, an abundance of shade, and some nice water features. The place was obviously geared towards young families, but I enjoyed wondering around. The atmosphere was really pleasant. The entrance was simple, but well done. After buying my ticket I walked through the gate (no metal detectors!!) into a well landscaped area containing large Christmas-like figures. There was a stage setup there as well, presumably for shows on busier days. The park is a very long rectangle, with (I think) just one pathway which runs from one end to the other. There are many spurs and little areas off the main path. The entrance is close to the 'left' end of the rectangle, the zoo is in the middle, and the rides are all the way on the right-hand end. After entering the park, I turned right. The zoo was pretty cool! I very much like zoos (both Melbourne and Chicago have world renowned zoos - which I love), and this one was pretty well done considering the size and the audience. Obviously I have no idea about how well the animals are cared for, but the basic presentation was nice. There were only a few animals (deers, bears, goats, a kangaroo (!), donkeys, rabbits, etc..). One interesting thing was that several cages had small holes through which guests could feed the animals. The animals, of course, were well aware of these holes and flocked there (looking for food) whenever anyone approached! I spent most of the time in the zoo (well, I was only there for about an hour!), because some of the animals were so cute. The biggest cage was for the deer, and there were several awesome little babies among them. The two baby bears were also very cute, and very active - playing and rough-housing with each other. They were running around their cage, climbing along the tree trunks, and generally impressing the heck out of the young kids. The goats were in an interesting little cage. It was actually two cages (each on either side of a pathway) connected by a bridge over the path. The goats could walk up ramps, and cross the bridge! The bridge wasn't terribly high, I wonder what stops the goats from just jumping off and wondering away? Maybe the bridge is blocked off at night .. I don't know. Having recently seen Shrek 2, and being a big fan of the first one, I got a kick out of the Donkeys! The only animal I felt sorry for was the poor kangaroo. He seemed to be in a far too small cage, and all by himself. His cage was like a Cedar Fair park (all concrete, no shade), and provided him no room to stretch his legs. Despite the cool pose he had taken, he did look quite bored. A large lake was provided, with free paddle boats. The interesting thing was Monkey Island in the middle of the lake! I'd never seen something like this before, and thought it was very cool. I wonder if there is some underground access to the monkeys, or if staff has to paddle out there to feed and maintain them?! There was one coaster there, a Zamperla Dragon, called Rudicoaster: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail375.htm This is actually a powered ride, however gravity certainly takes over for the down-hill portions. It's a fun ride, certainly an excellent fit for a park such as this. The train has a large reindeer on the front, and a large sack of presents on the back (with real toys!). The operator gave two trips every time, and the kids just loved it! Next to the coaster was a small selection of flat and kiddie rides. A carousel playing Christmas music, and a small pavilion full of arcade games (all redemption games - no pinball or video). A little kiosk sold hotdogs and burgers, and one could eat inside or at a table outside (but under cover). I grabbed a hot-dog, lemonade, ice-cream, and then headed back to my car to finish the drive. Overall, it was a great little find! I had no idea that it was there, and I was thrilled to stumble upon it! Here are some pictures: http://www.buzzneon.com/coasters/santa_land/ Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Anything, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Anytime! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 02 20:41:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14160 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 03:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 03:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 03:41:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2004 03:41:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 03:41:14 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8673 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.91 From: "George Burnash" X-Originating-IP: 12.160.113.42 Subject: TR: Silver Dollar City X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Silver Dollar City- July 1st The people: me, Dave, and my kids, Amber and Joseph The weather: warm and cloudy, with a couple of t-storms The crowds: fairly light After a couple of days of rest at my parents house, and watching weather while we did so, we decided to take the risk of thunderstorms at the park and go anyways. I had been debating doing both Silver Dollar City and Celebration City, but because of the iffy weather that was expected, we decided to just to SDC today, and if we felt like it and the weather was good, then we could upgrade to CC later on. As it turned out, that was a good choice. SDC offers two parking options- pay where you can park up close, or free. Both offer tram service, so we headed to the free lot. Their trams either look like trollys or are tractors pulling several cars. The drivers also have on headsets, and their PA systems work well, which allowed the drivers to have a bit of fun and talk to the people on the tram. This initial friendliness was very typical of the park as a whole, where we found people to be exceedingly friendly and very willing to take time to talk and converse with the people in the park. It may have even qualified as the friendliest park I've been to yet. Our first stop after buying our tickets was in the main gift shop/ entryway/ cavern queue entry area. Since with the weather and the day of the week, it looked like crowds were going to be light, we went ahead and started with the cavern tour, which took about an hour and 15 minutes, and was a lot of fun. Quite a deal, and it alone is almost worth the price of admission. However, the real park starts out when you leave that shop, and all of it starts to open up. While there are a good number of rides, they aren't the featured attraction of the park. The shops, craftsmen, shows, and music are. And they are probably better at all of there here than anywhere else I've seen. The shops are mostly run by independents who run their businesses here instead of other places, and the variety was outstanding. Not to mention the prices, which we also found to be very good. It left me wishing that I had more time and money to be able to really enjoy the stores. But as it was, I had to quit entering them entirely lest temptation get me. :) After the cavern, we wanted to catch the major rides, just in case the lines got longer later. So not really knowing what they were, we headed over to Thunderation first. This turned out to be an Arrow mine train, where every other car was turned around, so you could choose to ride forwards or backwards. We headed to the last 2 rows, since there was no line, and loaded up pretty quickly. The layout basically consists of a couple of turns, a very good helix that ends in a tight, fast, long tunnel (great stuff!!), a long lift hill, then a big, quick drop that then led to the station. I found it a lot of fun, as did Dave and Joseph, but Amber didn't like it, finding it a bit rougher than she'd like. It did have a bit of vibration, but nothing that would bother normally. So I don't think that would normally aply. Score for me would be an 7.5 out of 10. And yes, that's pretty high for a mine train. :) After that we crossed to the other side of the park to head to Wildfire. It's entry was right next to the entry for their logflume, the American Plunge, so we headed to that first. The logs here have a ridged bench in the middle of the boat, with each dip basically being a seat, and allowing for up to 6 people in the boats. There were actually pretty comfortable. The ride itself features a nice dark ride portion, with several scenes inside that make it a lot of fun, and one, very wet, drop. It was a great ride, but in a sense a bit ironic. After we got off, we headed to the restrooms for a quick stop, and while there, the rain started. While we were wet, we were far from soaked, so I make a quick stop in a shop and picked up some ponchos for all of us. Now covered, we took a walk back to Wildfire, which was closed while they waited for the weather to pass. That didn't take to long, and we were able to get in line and were on the ride within around 30 minutes after we got there, if it was even that long. Wildfire is a B&M coaster that looks like a floorless coaster but with floors attached, and it's height requirement is only 52 inches instead of the normal 54, which means that Amber was able to ride her first B&M. It only took a one train wait to get on the front row to. It has a unique layout for a B&M, with a straight, steep drop into an immelman, then the vertical loop, a cobra roll, a corkscrew, and helix before turning into the brake run into the station. No midcourse means that it only has 2 trains, but also means that the pace doesn't stop until it's over. We all really liked this coaster, it had a great mix of intensity and plain fun, and didn't have the cookie cutter feel that so many of the B&M's have now. Overall a great ride, and scoring an 8-8.5. After this we grabbed a ride on Fire in the Hole, which is one of those rides that can stir up the old "is it a coaster" debate. The signs posted call it a coaster, and the trains have individual lap bars, but it is short looking, with 2 cars with 3 rows each of 2 seats. However it starts out as a long extended dark ride, putting you in the role of a firefighter having to put out some large fires. But the end suddenly and surprisingly features 3 small but very quick drops, including one that felt like it was going to throw me and Dave clean out of our seats in the back. And with it being rather dark, it was hard to know when you were going to get one. It was a fun, interesting ride, and I would have liked to have gotten another ride or two on it. But I'm not sure that I would put it in the coaster category, since while it had the three drops, the ride is otherwise overwhelmingly a dark ride. There was quite a bit more we did in the park. We enjoyed a great tasting meal at one of the eateries, with charbroiled burgers cooked out where you could see them, hand dipped corn dogs, home made ice cream, flavored frozen lemonade (the kids added bubble gum flavor) and much more. Prices, while still high, were a bit lower than what I'm used to for theme parks, with our lunch for all four of us (4 complete meals) coming out to about $28. There is also a lot of other rides that were family friendly there. We took in the Sally dark ride called Shootout at the Flooded Mine, where I had a gun that couldn't miss- even a lot of times when there wasn't a target anywhere near that we could see. Needless to say, I had the highest score. There were interactive play areas for the kids, a crooked house with other stunts in it, and some other rides. They also had one of the best train rides I've been on in a park, taking about 30 minutes and going outside the park and into the woods. Along the way you're treated to an ongoing dialog with the conductor ("If you're enjoying the ride, give me a Yee Hah." "Great, you bunch of hillbillies.") that had us in stitches, and then you're held up by a couple of hillbilly train robbers and given a whole little drama (all with hidden microphones playing it over the PA- a very nice touch!). It was a lot of fun, and is an absolute don't miss at the park. Much of the rest of our time was spent shopping, watching craftsmen, and just enjoying the atmosphere of the park. Throughout the day, Dave was commenting on how he was going to have to get his wife and daughter out to the park at some point in the future. Thus far, it easily was our favorite park of the trip, and I would put it on a nearly equal footing with Disneyland, which says a lot about this park. It is a tremendous place and well worth going out of the way for. It was now about 5 pm, and the weather was looking very iffy again. So rather than bump our ticket up, we decided to go ahead and head for home, driving by Celebration City on the way out. Ozark Wildcat looked like a great coaster, but sure enough it was starting to rain as we were driving by, and before we got out of Branson, the rain was coming down pretty good. It didn't get real bad for us, but I think we managed to get ahead of a lot of it, as shortly after we arrived home about an hour later it came down in buckets. So while I would have loved to go to Celebration City, the weather pretty much eliminated that this time. But it will give us something to want to return for, in addition to all the shows in Branson. From MrStratosphere@aol.com Fri Jul 02 21:41:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20638 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 04:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 04:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 04:41:56 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.158.38e4ad99 (16930) for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <158.38e4ad99.2e17930d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:41:49 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.3 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Steel Pier - Atlantic City X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Were going to Atlantic city this wednesday - friday, any suggestions on what to do there, to ride, etc? John Mr Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sat Jul 03 05:30:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96710 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 12:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 12:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 12:30:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2004 12:30:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:30:06 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <84.2d3d5f5f.2e163548@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 914 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Dollywood (June 14th and 15th) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Cyclonic07@a... wrote: > In a message dated 7/1/2004 9:21:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dj72scorp@e... writes: > ah, dont listen to Cam. pigeon forge is a hoot-trashy? absolutely, > but if you just let yourself enjoy the campiness of it, its a lot of > fun. hell george, you are going to be a southerner soon enough, > might as well jump right in head first! > *************************************************** > Florida is actually part of the South? ;-) despite what youve heard to the contrary, yes indeed it is! even though its got more new englanders than new england does and more cubans than cuba does, its still a southern state-its just that the people that move there help to water down the southern-ness of it. and its got palm trees. its like if alabama broke off and floated down into the caribbean-it would still be alabama, just with a twist! From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sat Jul 03 06:48:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22088 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 13:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 13:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52910.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.187) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 13:48:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20040703134803.32716.qmail@web52910.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.107.74.233] by web52910.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 06:48:03 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 06:48:03 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <158.38e4ad99.2e17930d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.187 From: Adam Sandy Subject: Re: Steel Pier - Atlantic City X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > Were going to Atlantic city this wednesday - friday, > any suggestions on what > to do there, to ride, etc? If you get a chance check out my TR from about a month ago. Some things are: Reverchon Crazy Mouse Zamperla Disk-O Funtime Slingshot (great view of the beach) Helicopter Ride (even better view of the beach) aside from that there is the standard fair with a Tilt, Bumper Cars, Spring Ride, Reverchon Flume, Tech Park Wheel, carousel and some other stuff. I thought Atlantic City was a festering hole, but since you are from Vegas you might like it :). Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From Cyclonic07@aol.com Sat Jul 03 15:34:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9454 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 22:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 22:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 22:34:36 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.e6.52db312b (25305) for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:34:31 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.9 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Steel Pier - Atlantic City X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/2004 10:32:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, afrsandy@yahoo.com writes: > Were going to Atlantic city this wednesday - friday, > any suggestions on what > to do there, to ride, etc? If you get a chance check out my TR from about a month ago. Some things are: Reverchon Crazy Mouse Zamperla Disk-O Funtime Slingshot (great view of the beach) Helicopter Ride (even better view of the beach) aside from that there is the standard fair with a Tilt, Bumper Cars, Spring Ride, Reverchon Flume, Tech Park Wheel, carousel and some other stuff. I thought Atlantic City was a festering hole, but since you are from Vegas you might like it :). *************************************************** Actually, it is a festering pit, but I digress. My suggestion, take a day and head south to Wildwood, much better riding there. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Cyclonic07@aol.com Sat Jul 03 15:38:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86417 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 22:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 22:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 22:38:55 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1ef.249938f0 (25305) for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ef.249938f0.2e188f75@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:38:45 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.8 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: SFNE Superman Birthday Bash! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know it is late notice, but I though some folks would be interested in this: Ladies and Gentlemen, I've been put in charge of quickly getting the word out about a new enthusiast event to celebrate SFNE's Superman Ride of Steel's 5th season of operation. I put the event together and promise you it will be a good one. If you would kindly pass along the info to your readers/members, I would appreciate it tremendously. Just please keep my personal contact info out of it except for the hotmail account, which I will answer personally. Here are the key points of the event: *DATE: Saturday, July 17th. *Event is for coaster/park enthusiasts. Each enthusiasts is entitled to bring up to 3 guests apiece but they must be either season pass holders too or pay the non SP price of $19.99 each. *EVENT IS FREE (not a typo) for Six Flags season pass holders/up to three guests of enthusiasts who are also Six Flags season pass holders. (Does not have to be SFNE pass) *$19.99 EACH for enthusiasts/up to 3 guests who are not season pass holders. To sum up, season pass holders are free, just have to be an enthusiast or guest of one, and non SP enthusiasts and "guests" can pay the $19.99 apiece *Event includes, admission, first ride of the day on Superman, a free Superman Ride of Steel prize raffle in our picnic grove (including S:ROS chain links, tees, etc.), Superman ROS birthday cake, and 1 hour of night-time ERT, 10-11pm on Superman Ride of Steel! Again, either your season pass or $19.99 admission will get you access to the day's activities. *Since the event is on a Saturday, we're going to offer a $3/person discount off Lo-Q units for "birthday guests." *This event is IN ADDITION to the Superhero Celebration 3 which will still be held in August. *I ask anyone who believes they will attend, or has any questions, to email me at supermanbirthdaybash@hotmail.com and I will then send them an Evite. This Evite is to help us keep track of who all is coming. If you have any questions on behalf of your club/website, please don't hesitate to call or email me. I am hoping to get a nice gathering of people together to celebrate Superman Ride of Steel's 5 seasons of operation. Thank You! Dave David Swank Group Sales Coordinator Six Flags New England (413) 786-9300 Ext. 3469 "If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe." *************************************************** Nathan Brown, who happens to share the same birthday! AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From uclach@yahoo.com Sat Jul 03 16:28:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: uclach@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73805 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2004 23:28:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2004 23:28:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2004 23:28:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2004 23:28:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 23:28:52 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 179 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "uclach" X-Originating-IP: 172.209.189.47 Subject: Dutch Wonderland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=96026145 X-Yahoo-Profile: uclach I will be going to Hershey in late August and can't decide on Dutch Wonderland. Anyone have any opinions? I hear it's good for kids, but I won't be bringing any kids along. From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sat Jul 03 17:16:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92721 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 00:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 00:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 00:16:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2004 00:15:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:12:48 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1144 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: Frontier City (it's a long one) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "George Burnash" wrote: > Frontier City Diamond Back is an Arrow version of the shuttle loop, with > the station being at one end, and both ends being elevated. And it > was also the source of our one real area of displeasure. This thing > just hurt, all the way around. From the first drop, to the jack > hammer at the bottom of it, to the anything-but-smooth loop, to the > jackhammering rise up to the other side, then doing it in reverse > (while the op kindly waved to us as we started backwards, with a look > of pure pity on her face). Bad all the way around, and with it being > so close to the entrance, I can see how this could ruin people's days > at the park if it was the first thing they rode. Since we had seen so > much we liked already, it didn't affect us that much. But it > certainly showed why so few of these exist. It gets a lowly 2.5 from > me. Ouch. > George Interesting, the only Arrow launched loop I've been on is the Irn Bru Revolution at Blackpool was much more enjoyable than the way you make that monster sound... Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sat Jul 03 17:22:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76859 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 00:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 00:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 00:22:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2004 00:22:18 -0000 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:22:17 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1641 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain "Must-rides" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "George Burnash" wrote: > On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:32:52 -0400, wrote: > > > Must-rides > > > > Batman:the Ride(especially, or you'll regret it) > > Deja Vu > > Flashback(one of the best) > > Ninja(especially, this ride rocks!) > > Scream! > > Revolution > > Colossus > > Goliath > > Viper > > > > Others > > > > Riddler's Revenge > > Goldrusher > > Canyon Blaster > > Psyclone > > Goliath, Jr. > > Superman: the Escape > > > Interesting list, but I sure do disagree with some of your > > opinions... > > > > I agree that Batman's a must-ride. > > > > But Flashback?! This is the one that really provoked me into > > responding: you call it one of the best! To me (and I know, to many > > others), this is the WORST still-standing coaster on the planet. > It's a > > painful, twisty little mutant that I'd like to see sold off for > scrap. > > Oh come now Jon. Really. Don't be so kind to Flashback, as it's > much, much worse than that. I don't know that I've ever hated a > coaster so much, except maybe it's sister in pain and torture on the > other side of the park, Psyclone. I don't know how anyone can > possibly like either one. But every now and then I run into someone > that seems to like being put in traction... :P Now I admit that Psyclone sucks dead donkey, but I would like to know what happened to Flashback. In the mid 90's I had no issues with this ride. Later in my 7 year stay in California, it was NEVER open. Did 6F finally reopen it? Did something happen while it was closed to make it rough? I don't get it. Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sat Jul 03 20:06:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60756 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 03:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 03:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 03:05:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2004 03:05:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 03:05:59 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8079 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: TR: Smaller Tokyo Parks Whirlwind Part 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 I got an Idea in my head to do as many of the smaller parks around Kanagawa (the one I live in) and Tokyo prefectures as I could squeeze in in a single three day weekend. So far it has worked out well. Day: Saturday 3July04 Parks: Arakawa Yuen, Hanayashiki Amusement Park, Toshimaen Park, and Sega Joypolis Tokyo Total cost, including trains, admissions, and food throughout the day @ $140 Weather: @80F, little bit humid, partly cloudy I spent the night at the GF's studio apartment in northern Tokyo, so I hit Arakawa Yuen first. (She had to work, and doesn't like rides much, so don't give me grief.) Access is via the Arakawa line trolley, which I have decided to call the Rose line, for the roses that line the track for nearly the entire length, and the wrought iron roses worked into the railings of the stations. A short walk through a well landscaped path past a small pool/water park, Arakawa Yuen appears to be a small neighborhood trolley park. With it's train station like entrance and the Trolley car parked prominently by the entrance, I have to think that, right? Entry was only 200 yen, and what a value! This beautiful gem is more like a garden with rides than an amusement park. Entry includes a small collection of animals and the gardens. This park has 2 "attractions" I found odd. A stocked fishing pond and a sculpted stream for wading. Rides were 200 yen each, and included a ferris wheel, a train, carousel, a pedal coaster and a small roller coaster from Meisho. An odd little coaster, with 2 car trains, but only one rider per car, and 4 trains with one in storage on a track below the station. Not a mouse, and with banked turns, it would still have been rough if the cars were different, or less padded. I only spent 45 minutes in this park, but I really liked it. Next, I went over to Asakusa to check out Hanayashiki Amusement Park, located in the tourist zone around the Sensoji Buddhist temple. I may not have seen any Gaijin from the time I left the GF's house but there were plenty here. Hanayashiki has been owned and operated by TOGO since 1949, but was a flower garden park since 1853. TOGO is presently working under Japan's bankruptcy laws, and this park looks it. Run down, and in need of serious cash for upkeep, maintenance and preservation, this single block sized park was not pretty by any definition. However, even with it's shortcomings, TOGO has managed to squeeze more rides and attractions into this tiny space than I would have imagined possible. This place is more crowded than Blackpool Pleasure Beach, stacking rides on top of rides on top of rides. Another showcase of the TOGO catalog, although of older rides, in only a little more than an acre, there are 17 rides, including the coaster, as well as several walk through attractions, restaurants, gift shops, arcade games and even two small shows. The Bee Tower (flying houses) and Space Shot tower above all, while the coaster circles above and around the outer edge of the park. Merry go round, kiddie ferris wheel, helicopters (pedal operated on elevated tracks), sky ship (suspended monorail ride), taxi ride, Surprising House (rocking rolling room), a mini himilaya, a spinning rolling ride, a smaller older version of the rockin roller called Funky Duck , Bumper Cars for points (?), Walk through Haunted house, walk through maze, Treasure Fort dark ride, and probably more I missed, there is actually quite a bit going on in this little park. Although the park was crowded, there was little to no wait for any of the rides. The coaster was typical TOGO fare, a bit rough, but it is 51 years old! with some mild air on the drops, two moments of ejector air (what's with all the ejector air lately? I prefer my air floaty!) and a screaming fast drop right before the station. I ate a 500 yen plate of Yakisoba with some melon soda next to the large Koi pond. Leaving Asakusa, I realized I had done two parks before lunch, so I decided to add Toshimaen to the day's itinerary. Toshimaen is a large water park with a medium sized amusement park in the back. The atmosphere reminded me of trips to 6FMM in the mid 90's in the winter: Bored, slow ops, not really dirty, but run down, no theming, but some decent greenery, a park without real identity. To exemplify this, all the rides flat, coaster and flume were named by the model type: Troika, Eagle, Flying Pirates, Calypso, Flying Carpet, Top Spin, Wave Swinger, Corkscrew, Shuttle Loop, Blauer Enzian and Flume Ride. Lame. The only items of real note were the Carousel with it's El Dorado name and it's Carribbean pirate / Spanish main theme in real wood carved pieces, the Toys R Us (huh?) on the park grounds, and the 1965 steel coaster, Cyclone. Cyclone is like coaster design by Gustav Eiffel. Iron beams riveted together, it looks much older than 1965, but the purple paint was fresh. With a long (12 cars) log shaped train and ramp like hills, I was surprised to get one nice long floaty air, but as it is more like a terrain coaster making one large circuit with a single <360 helix in a long tunnel it's appearance was more interesting than the ride. The Shuttle Loop is a weight drop model, and I haven't been on one of these since KBF in 1996, so I forgot how nice they are. The Arrow Corkscrew is rediculously rough, oh yeah, it's an Arrow! However it is engulfed by trees, which is different. The Blauer Enzian is unthemed, and like most of the rides in the park, oddly, sits on top of a building. More than 1/2 the rides are on top of an arcade, store, or restaraunt. Flooding won't be a problem, I guess. Finally, I went back across Tokyo to Odaiba, which is an area of reclaimed land in Tokyo Wan (bay) which has numerous interesting things to do. MegaWeb, a giant Toyota showroom, closed it's coaster 29 June 2003, NeoGeo World closed it's coaster in 2001, although the biggest frickin' ferris wheel I have ever seen continues to operate there. Finally at Sega Joypolis, Speed Boarder was still operating. Like a flying coaster, Speed Boarder gives it's thrill a boost by placing the riders in a new position. Although seated, two riders side-by-side usually face forward, here, sideways. The seats rock and have controlled rotation, as wel as a toe bar that once I found part way through my first ride, actually made it more enjoyable. I thought the theme would be skateboarding, but from the surfing footage shown on monitors between the station and the first lift, I stand corrected. After the lift and one circle doors open, and the ride goes "outside." Glassed in, you can see people on the boardwalk below as well as the "Rainbow" bridge. curving briefly through the mall outside Joypolis, back through doors and in to the dark again. Not actually completely dark, the few lights inside do little. after two more "circles" on the way up the second lift, the cars are turned so that the rider who led the way now follows. The second room is lit by blacklight, and performs about the same routine as in the first room. Upon returning to the station, the cars are rotated back to the original postion, and the ride ends. The ratcheting soft harness is very comfortable, and I'd like to see more rides use a similar system. I was impressed with this little coaster. Also on the ground floor was a Halfpipe ride where riders control the spins by rocking foot switches. This used the same ultra comfortable restraints as Speed Boarder. I was alone on my two person "skateboard" and I suspect that contributed to my second place (for the day) score of 55 spins. #1 was 61, and the closest pair in the group of riders (there are four boards operating at once) had 31 spins. I was rediculously dizzy! Simply big pendulums, this ride would make a fun addition to just about any park, although a larger model would have better throughput. Chris B Today: Duty (work) Monday: Yokohama Cosmoworld, Sega Joypolis Yokohama (if it's still open) and maybe Tama Tech and Summerworld. From MrStratosphere@aol.com Sat Jul 03 22:19:13 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65202 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 05:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 05:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 05:19:11 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.15b.391240bf (4196) for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2004 01:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15b.391240bf.2e18ed48@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 01:19:04 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.38 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Steel Pier - Atlantic City X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/2004 7:32:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, afrsandy@yahoo.com writes: If you get a chance check out my TR from about a month ago. Some things are: Reverchon Crazy Mouse Zamperla Disk-O Funtime Slingshot (great view of the beach) Helicopter Ride (even better view of the beach) aside from that there is the standard fair with a Tilt, Bumper Cars, Spring Ride, Reverchon Flume, Tech Park Wheel, carousel and some other stuff. I thought Atlantic City was a festering hole, but since you are from Vegas you might like it :). Hey whats that supposed to mean, naw i heard all the stories about atlantic city, dont get me wrong vegas is different from what i heard, i will have a TR when i get back, thanks for all your help. We are just going there for a day on our trip to philly, knoebeles, dorney, and hershey, i cant wait it will be a great trip. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MrStratosphere@aol.com Sat Jul 03 22:21:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48648 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 05:21:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 05:21:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m18.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.208) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 05:21:21 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.36.5c3bc867 (4196) for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2004 01:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <36.5c3bc867.2e18edcc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 01:21:16 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.208 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Steel Pier - Atlantic City X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/3/2004 3:36:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Cyclonic07@aol.com writes: Actually, it is a festering pit, but I digress. My suggestion, take a day and head south to Wildwood, much better riding there. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic Yeah, I hear about that too. But why not right, I only have 1 day and Night in Atlantic City, so this is the first stop, then Knoebeles, Hershy, then Dorney, I can not wait to get on Storm Runner, Ive heard good things about it, and my second Hydraulic launch coaster, Xcelerator being the first respectively. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rumors@absolutelyreliable.com Sun Jul 04 03:22:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: rumors@absolutelyreliable.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36748 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 10:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 10:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO meson.liquidweb.com) (64.91.249.99) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 10:22:45 -0000 Received: from cpanel by meson.liquidweb.com with local (Exim 4.34) id 1Bh45p-00009w-Cr for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 06:19:29 -0400 Received: from 70.17.80.116 ([70.17.80.116]) by www.absolutelyreliable.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2004 06:19:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1088936369.40e7d9b150919@www.absolutelyreliable.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 06:19:29 -0400 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <1088933996.326.34743.m12@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1088933996.326.34743.m12@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - meson.liquidweb.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - absolutelyreliable.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.91.249.99 From: ARN&R X-Originating-IP: 70.17.80.116 Subject: Re: Dutch Wonderland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=131811069 X-Yahoo-Profile: childs.rm << I will be going to Hershey in late August and can't decide on Dutch Wonderland. Anyone have any opinions? I hear it's good for kids, but I won't be bringing any kids along. >> I went there with my kids on Thursday. We had a great time but it is heavily kid-oriented. The Sky Princess (CCI) is fun and is not strictly a kids' ride, but it is really the only thing there that is likely to be appealing without kids. The park is a quirky and fun place. Here's what I wrote a friend of mine (with some edits to clarify things she knows that the list doesn't): I ditched work yesterday for my birthday and we went to Dutch Wonderland, a very cute amusement park in Pennsylvania owned by Hershey. http://www.dutchwonderland.com/ We had a great time. It's very family-oriented, so my five-year-old was big enough to ride almost everything and even my wo-year-old could ride most stuff. There were pretty entertaining shows, heavy on audience participation, and it was all just the ride scale. Not overwhelming. My five-year-old was a noble English lady in the participatory play "The Pirates of Buccaneer Isle" (http://www.dutchwonderland.com/entertainment.html) which was just as good as it sounds. The paid performers were not exactly Oscar caliber, but they were enthusiastic and friendly and were trying hard. They have one fun wooden coaster, the Sky Princess, and my five-year-old rode it with me. She wasn't sure what she thought of it afterwards. It's a real coaster (http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery251.htm?Picture=5) and she bumped her head a little on the padding on the side of the car. But she was wanting to ride it again later, sadly precluded by rain. We also rode the Joust (http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery509.htm?Picture=3), a junior steel coaster. That one our younger kid was tall enough to ride with a grownup. Both kids adored it. My wife and I...not so much. It had a lovely moment where it smacked the small of your back quite hard. Still, it was fun. We also did bumper cars (both loved it) and the Frog Hopper (http://www.s-spower.com/frog.html), which they just giggled and giggled throughout. Did a bunch of other rides, too, but those were the highlights. It's a quirky park. It has a whole bunch of little miniature buildings with animatronic dioramas inside them, but not generally creepy ones. One of the buildings, shaped like a church, has nothing but a window air conditioner on high and a Bible. They have a large fiberglass cow you can milk (it has rubber nipples and plumbing coming into it so that water comes out when you pull on them) (I am completely serious). Late in the day, someone had pulled off one of its nipples and so it was just pouring water out of its udder. They also still have a haunted swing (http://www.ridezone.com/rides/hauntedswing/) which is really fun, though the building was incredibly hot and smelled like pee. There are modern versions of this ride around, but this is the only original I've seen. And (Simpsons music cue) they have a monorail! I was surprised at how much I liked it, which led to this: http://absolutelyreliable.com/2004_06_27_rumorarchive.html#108877723130434411. It's definitely not a thrill park and it's totally aimed at families with kids, but it's fun. From spartankicker@yahoo.com Sun Jul 04 14:24:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: spartankicker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28120 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 21:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 21:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web81701.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.132) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 21:24:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20040704212416.48187.qmail@web81701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.109.2.59] by web81701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:24:16 PDT Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 14:24:16 -0700 (PDT) To: RCTalk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.132 From: Bryan Wood Subject: MISC: Waldameer New Coaster Pics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120409146 X-Yahoo-Profile: spartankicker I visited Waldameer Park yesterday (TR coming shortly) and got to ride their still unnamed Maurer-Sohne Xtended SC 2000. The ride is very, very fun. The spinning is not as intense as you would think...nothing like the spins you can get on the Reverchon Spinning Mouse. The spins almost feel controlled, even though the car's spin is based on weight distribution. You can view 17 pictures of the ride that I took yesterday by clicking the link (or copy/paste the text into your browser): http://www.thrillnetwork.com/dbgallery/index.php?rideid=1783 If you're anywhere near Salt Lake City-Lagoon, Erie (PA) and Rochester-Seabreeze this summer, make it a point to ride one of these things. They're a very enjoyable ride. -Bryan ===== I'm Bryan Wood, and I approve of this message. spartankicker@yahoo.com From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 05 01:58:40 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67461 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 08:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 08:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 08:58:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.168] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2004 08:57:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:57:20 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 517 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.206.203 Subject: Re: TR: Smaller Tokyo Parks Whirlwind Part 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani Nice reports. If you find yourself up in Tochigi-ken visiting Nikko National Park, you might want to check out Nikko Edomura, a smallish theme park I visited as an exchange student in 1990. It didn't have any rides, but it did have several different shows and walk-throughs showing various aspects of Edo-era Japan; I thought of it as the Japanese equivalent of the Ghost Town at KBF. There were a couple of Ninja stunt shows, fake samurai strolling the streets, an 1800s fashion show, a 3-D movie, etc. Adam From jay@karenandjay.com Mon Jul 05 08:40:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17064 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 15:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 15:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 15:40:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:38:09 -0700 Message-Id: <200407050838.AA2527658298@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: TR: Busch Gardens Part 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme We began our second day with breakfast at a Williamsburg restaurant, The Gazebo. It had an attractive interior. There were photos on the wall of the owner with various notables (including Ronald Reagan). The food was plentiful and good. Our waitress seemed quite disinterested though. Since we were in such an historically important city, Karen and I decided to take a walk around historic Williamsburg. For those of you who might not realize it (I didn't), Historic Willilamsburg is a ground-up restoration of what the village probably looked like in the 1700s. It's staffed with people in period costumes going about their lives as they would have in that time period. We followed the green road signs. They took us to the giant visitor's center, with acres of free parking. It was still early (about 9:30), but the parking lot was already filling up. We followed the winding well-landscaped cobblestone path down to the entrance. Outside the main doors, there was a large bronze table that was a scale recreation of the entire Historic Williamsburg complex. We entered the big air- conditioned modern building. There was the requisite gift shop on the left and an educational bookstore on the right. Various giant photos depicting scenes from the village adorned the walls. What was most stunning was about 50 yards away: an area that looked like an airport terminal. It was a huge queuing area set up to buy tickets. I hadn't seen any prices or charges anywhere, and the thought of having to pay to walk around an historic area caught me off guard. I looked all around, trying to find more information. Finally I found it. In a wing off to the right where the bathrooms were, generally hidden from view, was a big poster with a listing of prices. My jaw dropped. To walk into Historic Williamsburg cost $33 per person. There were many historical re-enactments such as mock trials that were an extra charge. The prices went up from there, to a maximum of $75 if you wanted to take in all the "shows." (That price was their "season pass.") We had planned to be there only a couple of hours at the most, and refused to spend that much money to experience something that essentially we see for free every year near our home (Storrowtown Village at the Eastern States Exposition). So we turned around and walked out. I could see spending ten or fifteen bucks to walk around, but I thought their price was exorbitant. We later found out that if we had parked at the nearby College of William and Mary, we could have simply walked in the back way for free. So we headed back to Busch Gardens and went straight for the lockers under Escape From Pompeii. Rather than walk around with soggy feet all day, Karen suggested we wear sandals and put our shoes in a locker. It was a pretty good deal: six dollars gave you use of the decent-sized locker until the park closed. There was no key to misplace: you simply punched in your locker number and your passcode on the touch screen. The weather turned quite a bit more hot and humid, so we queued up for Pompeii. We didn't mind at all as the boat flooded with water. People around us with sneakers groaned as their feet got saturated. After the ride we both stood on the viewing platform and got drenched as the boats passed. Karen then bought herself a nice new hat and we headed for Apollo's Chariot. We were both wearing our spiffy new AC shirts, and many people stopped us to comment on them. The line was fairly short again and we queued up for the front. Two boys needed two more riders so we went right to the front of the line. We left our sandals with the attendants. I pulled my lap bar down, but it wouldn't click all the way. There was about an inch between it and my stomach. Normally, I wouldn't have minded. But those B&M seats made me feel so vulnerable. The first drop and second hill had me clinging to the lap bar as I floated out of my seat. Through the pretzel and the incredible swoop-drop, I thought I would fly out of the train. I was most likely in no danger at all, but it was amazing how that little bit of wiggle room in the seat created such a sense of peril. We bought our humorous photo from the photo booth and walked back to our locker. That was the only drawback to the locker: it was near the front of the park, but Busch Gardens is so huge that it made for a lot of walking if we wanted access to it during the day. From there we stopped to get some good Italian ice. We stood by the Roman Rapids observation deck and watch one raft after another get drenched. Feeling the approaching heat of the day, we took a spin as well. There were two kids on the ride with us who got soaked and loved it. We decided to make our second day a show day. We headed to Killarney for a production that Karen really liked the last time we were there: Irish Thunder. The Abbey Stone Theatre had a fairly nondescript exterior: uninteresting stonework with red doors. It did a good job of hiding the spectacular interior. Walking into that theater was like walking into another world. The little blue seats were too small and uncomfortable, but the amazing scenery distracted me from that. The interior was designed to look like ancient castle ruins from Ireland, perched up on a mountain. Vines crawled over the realistic gray stonework along the sides of the auditorium. Through arched openings, a blue sky and clouds were visible. Everything was dimly and atmospherically lit. Gentle mist drifted out from the wide stone-like stage. On either side were large archways with winding stone stairs that curved up and out of view. Each archway sat high upon a series of large jagged stone steps. There was a curtain across the stage's proscenium, but it was lit to look like an ancient stone wall. The words "Abbey Stone Theatre" radiated mysteriously from it. A woman's voice with a thick Irish brogue announced that the show would begin soon. An elderly woman behind us noticed our shirts and called out, "Are you the people from Minnesota?" We turned around to her puzzled and shook our heads. "Oh, I'm sorry," she said, "I thought you were somebody else." The show was billed as, "championship dancers direct from Dublin, Ireland." It was similar to Riverdance. There were about a dozen performers. There was a group of dancers with two soloists, a group of singers and a fiddle player. The high-energy performance was staged so that each new piece became a little story with two performers (usually the lead dancers) as the main characters. The dramatic opening was mysterious, with loud thunder and low music, Ripples of lightning across the stage illuminated the performers, who were standing behind the curtain. It was if they were ghosts materializing before our eyes. Fog flooded the stage, the curtain lifted and the dancing began. The backdrops were spectacular, sort of like giant versions of those music boxes with the moving panoramas. The music was so loud though, that often the performers' incredible tap work was inaudible. Since this was just the second day of performances, I could understand things still needing fine tuning. What impressed me most about the show was how engaging the performers were. Their concentration was intense, yet they seemed to be having a great time. And they constantly acknowledged the audience, whether it was getting everyone to clap along or just smiling and focusing outward. They really seemed as if our enjoyment was everything. During so many shows at other parks, I get the feeling that we (the audience) are a chore that the performers have to suffer through. The performers go through the motions but never seem to be enjoying it. Maybe the difference was that the show was fresh for everyone. But Karen saw it in the middle of the season two years ago, and was still really impressed. The show lasted about a half-hour and was quite satisfying. It was also technically impressive. We left smiling, walked over to Aquitaine and took the Skyride for a leisurely journey around to Banbury Cross. Then we walked back through San Marco and into the Rhinefeld. Karen had been debating whether to try Big Bad Wolf. I talked her into it. She doesn't like rides that swing back and forth, but I said that this was one ride she had to try simply because it's the best of its kind. The line stretched to just outside the station, and right when we queued up an announcement was made that the ride would be shut down for a while. I saw them cycling the trains and I watched a maintenance man walk over to the transfer track. I knew that they were taking the third train off to run two. Some people began to leave, but we stayed. I wanted to watch the tracks switch. Unlike a standard coaster that has the transfer track on a sliding platform, Arrow created an interesting alternative. A small section of track (about fifteen feet) after the brake run had another section of track welded upside-down onto its back. The maintenance man turned a key and pressed a button on a panel, and the track section rotated so that the top piece spun around underneath. It was curved to line up with one of the storage tracks behind the station. With one train in the station, one on a lift hill and one in the brake run, the maintenance man disengaged the brakes and that train obediently rolled into the storage area. Then the maintenance man pressed another button and the track section revolved again, lining up with the station. The ride was restarted and within a few minutes we were climbing into the front seat. BBW was originally a Schwartzkopf project, but he couldn't complete it. Arrow-Huss (which designed the park's wildly successful Loch Ness Monster) was called upon to complete it. They had just experienced a rather unsettling failure with their first suspended coaster, King's Island's The Bat. Big Bad Wolf was a chance to redeem themselves and they did so spectacularly. This 1984 masterpiece is almost completely hidden from view except for the imposing drop above the Rhine River and the brake run that's suspended high above a long rushing waterfall. As with Nessie, that sense of mystery works in the ride's favor. There really isn't much there. The ride is only 2800 feet long (compared with Apollo's Chariot's 4800 feet). Quite a bit of that trackage is taken up by the two lift hills. But thanks to ingenious placement and great theming, the coaster is a heart-stopping thrill from start to finish. I like this era of Arrow restraints: they were padded but thin and didn't get in the way of my vision. I don't know why the over-the-shoulder harnesses were needed on this ride. The trains completely surround the rider and there's no danger of falling out. But even so, the restraints weren't uncomfortable at all. And the trains and track still looked new after all these years. We rolled out of the station in a sort of inverse of the typical Arrow mini-drop. We gained speed around a left-hand turn into dense forest and engaged the noisy lift. It didn't get very high above the ground. It didn't need to. From off of the lift, the track dove into a ravine that was peppered with small structures looking like Bavarian homes and shops. Karen screamed as we flew through the course at what seemed like a much-too-dangerous speed, narrowly missing the buildings, zigzagging around tight turns. After a left-hand turn we hit the mid-course brakes and drifted toward the second lift. Unlike the first, this lift went much higher off the ground. When we crested the hill we got a glimpse of the nearly 100-foot drop and the picturesque Rhine River before diving down the cliff toward the water, whipping around a wide left-hand turn at nearly a 90-degree banking and then racing upwards around a right-hand turn before swinging into the brakes. As I said, there's not much there. But what's there is spectacular. Karen was glad she went on it, but vowed never again. I could have happily stayed on it all day. The ride doesn't have a lot of speed, but it creates a tremendous *sensation* of speed. That might be why so many enthusiasts don't like Cedar Point's Iron Dragon, which is a very similar ride except for the theming: Iron Dragon has none (unless you can call the ride's structure "theming"). BBW has that detailed Bavarian village that comes perilously close to the ride, and it has that stunning drop off the cliff. The excitement comes from the landscaping and layout, which ties together with the ride experience. It illustrates my point that a great coaster doesn't need to be the biggest or the fastest, just well-designed. I'm curious as to how much of BBW's current design was Arrow-Huss', how much of was Busch Gardens' and how much was Schwartzkopf's. Probably the only suspended (or inverted) coaster that comes close to being as effective is Alton Tower's Nemesis. Big Bad Wolf is possibly the best ride at Busch Gardens. It fits into the park's scheme so naturally. Next we cooled down by getting some ice cream at the Wilkommenhaus Ice Cream Shop. I got a tasty root beer float and Karen got a strawberry sundae in a waffle cone. Then we walked through the ornate iron trellises into Oktoberfest to watch "This Is Oktoberfest" in the Festhaus. The sheer size of the Festhaus is imposing. It's supposedly the largest permanent clear-span pavilion in the world. In the center of the hall was a circular stage, about twenty feet in diameter. It looked like a giant white gazebo with four pillars rising up about twenty feet. We took a seat at one of the rustic picnic tables toward the back of the pavilion. An announcement was made that the show was about to begin. The German oom-pah band could be heard in the distance, and they and the eight dancers (four men and four women) appeared in Oktoberfest attire. They all made their way toward the stage, singing and playing. The band went up onto the stage where there were music stands set up and a drum kit. When the musicians were settled in, the entire bandstand slowly rose up into the air and stopped at the top of the gazebo. They kept right on playing and the dancers took to the stage, performing all sorts of intricate routines. My favorite was when they imitated the movements of a german cuckoo clock. They brought all the little kids in the audience up onto the stage to perform the chicken dance, of all things. The set ended with the Budweiser theme song as the bandstand slowly dropped back onto the stage. Then the performers danced their way out to the front of the pavilion. It was another entertaining, high-energy show. We walked back through Rhinefeld and up into New France to ride Le Scoot. The covered bridge separating New France from Aquitaine offered splendid views of Alpengeist's twisted track diving past Le Scoot. We passed on Alpengeist. I rode it on our last visit and could barely walk when I got off. I love its theming, with the skies bolted to the back of the train. It's probably still B&M's greatest inverted coaster. It was placed very well, taking advantage of the hilly terrain. But at 195 feet high and with six inversions, it was just too intense for either of us. So we queued up again for the old Arrow flume, which was more our speed. The layout of Le Scoot is peculiar. We left the station and immediately turned right up a long slow lift hill. Off of the top of the lift, we drifted in a large clockwise circle through a trough about 40 feet in the air. Then we took a little dip under the lift hill, floated through about 50 feet of straight trough, turned left and entered a tall thin sawmill-style building. This was a nice effect. There was a giant saw blade spinning in front of us, where the trough dropped out of view. All we could see was the saw blade and the wall of the building. Then the log plunged down the drop and skimmed over the water at the bottom. It wasn't quite like an Arrow speed flume, but it also didn't have a big splash like most others. There was another little drop of a few feet, then we circled around to the left and were back in the station. It was okay, but it was really short. There seemed like a lot of wasted energy. Instead of wasting so much time traveling up that long lift hill, I wish the ride had started with a short lift and then sent us floating through that beautiful forested area, like the one at King's Dominion does. Save the big lift for the end to build suspense. Maybe there could have been rustic cabins in the woods or animatronic scenes of lumberjacks. We ended up with a pretty fun photo of us on the drop, so all was not lost. The New France area was pretty rustic, with lots of log cabins. The one stage in there was an anachronism: a giant multicolored jukebox. I guess every park has to have a 50's music review. Busch had two: a generic dance show and an Elvis tribute. But why were they located in this area? I would have loved to have seen traditional Canadian folk bands, or even Zydeco bands. That would have fit well into that area. But a 50's review? That seemed completely out of place. We passed on those and headed for the delicious smells coming from the new Trapper's Smokehouse. The giant cafeteria looked sort of like a ski lodge. The specialty was food prepared on a mesquite-fired grill. Karen and I split the smoked salmon dinner which cost $10, quite a reasonable price. Along with it we got salad, some dinner rolls and some bread pudding. We sat at the nearby patio that had massive wooden tables (hewn from logs) and chairs that made me feel like a midget. The chairs were so heavy they were difficult to move. The meal was by far the best we had at Busch. The salmon was perfectly done and had a slightly spicy smoked flavor. The barbecue sauce was just hot enough. The dinner rolls melted in our mouths. The salad was crisp and fresh. And the bread pudding was to die for; it was delectable. The portions were just right; we didn't feel stuffed from too much food. The line for the Le Mans Raceway had dwindled, so we queued up for it. Busch Gardens' spin on the old antique car ride is clever: the cars look like old-style racers from the1920's. There were three separate tracks that followed different routes. When all three were run simultaneously the cars could "race" for a while, then separate and rejoin several times during the long circuit. The park was running only two tracks that day. I ended up behind Karen on the same track, so we didn't get to race. But it was a nice leisurely trip. We strolled through Lorikeet Glen, back toward Killarney. If Karen hadn't seen the "Show Times" sign, we never would have known that the "Secrets of Castle O'Sullivan" banner indicated a performance. It looked like a nice piece of scenery that was integrated into the landscape. There was a long corridor beyond some stone arches. A small raised platform at the center against the wall held various artifacts including an old RCA gramophone. It looked like junk you'd find at a flea market. We had about 20 minutes before the show, so we wandered about Killarney. A group of folksingers were outside. They didn't quite seem to fit. There were a half-dozen of them, and they were a poor imitation of Peter, Paul and Mary. They weren't really Irish; they were more like "A Mighty Wind." And they sounded tired. We walked back to the corridor. A crowd had begun to gather. Within a few minutes, a young man emerged. He said he was an American, but was the last surviving heir to the O'Sullivan line. He had decided to sell of everything including the family's castle to get some cash and live a comfortable life elsewhere. We were all invited to the auction. He continued with amiable banter about auction etiquette. Then we stepped inside. The theater was dimly lit. The large stage housed a fragmentary set of a castle interior. Unlike the Irish Thunder show, this set was much more theatrical, with no attempt to convince us it was real. Eerie gargoyles sat above the exit doors on either side of the audience. The guy appeared on stage and sang a corny song about what he was going to do. I felt a bit uncomfortable, because I wasn't sure what the tone of the show was. Outside, he seemed like a snake oil salesmen. But inside he was more like a junior college theater major. Then off to the left side of the stage, thick smoke erupted from a chair. The back of the chair shimmered with green sparkles and a leprechaun magically appeared in it. The leprechaun was obviously a sophisticated puppet, but it fit in well with the style of the corny song. I won't go into detail about what ensued but it was surprisingly entertaining, with some really impressive live special effects. And it also delivered a message without getting preachy. The shallow materialistic American discovered with the help of the leprechaun that there's more to life than possessions. And to think, I never even knew there was a theater there.... We headed back through Lorikeet Glen and spent some time looking at the exotic birds. One of them was quite talkative, eagerly repeating "Hello!" and "Pretty boy!" over and over. Then we took the Skyride to Banbury Cross. We walked to our locker and got our stuff, and then went shopping. At one of the stores there was some confusion about discounts. At a popcorn stand the day before, the clerk asked us if we had a passport. We said yes, and she deducted 10 percent from our order. At the gift shop, I showed my pass and the clerk said it wasn't any good. It was a "bronze" pass, and I needed a gold or platinum for a discount. They didn't take AAA or any other discount, so we paid full price. We got some T-shirts and magnets. There were also two of the nicest mugs I've ever seen, tall heavy ones (almost like beer steins) with a roller coaster track running all the way around them. The shop had a video playing that had on-ride footage of all the coasters. I asked the clerk where I could buy that but was told it was only a promotional video and wasn't for sale. After we stocked up, we stopped off at the Globe Theatre to see the new 4-D feature, "R.L. Stein's Haunted Lighthouse." I have no idea who R.L. Stein is. The gift shop had lots of Stein merchandise (no beer Steins though), so I would guess he/she is popular. The movie starred Christopher Lloyd as a crusty and slightly whacked sea captain who is looking after two kids. They're told a story about two other kids who were trapped in a nearby lighthouse long ago and were abandoned by their parents. The film is filled with the usual assortment of gimmicks (a character on the screen spits and the chair in front of you sprays you with water; rats escape and in 3-D run out into the audience and you feel puffs of air on your ankles), but the best part of it was hearing and watching the packed auditorium react. They shrieked and groaned and laughed almost on cue. We heard many children in the audience say that they'd already seen the film several times and they were coming back. By the way, I had heard that Weird Al Yankovic, one of my favorite musical personalities, was "starring" in the movie. He had just a walk-on at the end, looking exactly like himself and somewhat out-of-place. All in all, Karen and I enjoyed the film. It was just scary and suspenseful enough to keep us on the edge of our seats, but it also poked fun at itself. Good family fare. After that it was about eight at night, so Karen and I headed back to our cottage to rest up for our final day. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Mon Jul 05 08:41:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23014 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 15:41:21 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:39:15 -0700 Message-Id: <200407050839.AA1615986886@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: TR: Busch Gardens Part 3 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme Wednesday began heavily overcast and humid. The forecast was for thundershowers. Up to that point I hadn't taken any pictures, so we made our final day the picture-taking day. We stopped for breakfast at another of Williamsburg's plentiful pancake and waffle houses and then drove over to the park. Another nice thing about Busch Gardens is that it doesn't take a bad shot. No matter where I aimed my camera there was lush greenery and beautiful flowers. We walked clockwise around the whole park, stopping to take pictures at various spots. In San Marco, a passing couple offered to take a picture of us "stomping grapes." We reciprocated. We passed through Lorikeet Glen and noticed that a new show, Pet Shenanigans, was ready to begin. So we stopped to watch. The amphitheater for it was steep and large. The seats were thick wood bleachers embedded into the hillside. The stage below looked somewhat like a hotel front surrounded by green latticework. A couple walked on stage with a spaniel. They talked about how they were looking forward to a relaxing vacation at the hotel but they weren't sure if they could bring their dog in. So the guy went inside to ask. The girl took the dog on its leash and tied it up to her right. She sat next to it on a chair then took a bag, opened it up and placed a small bit of food on a plate at her left side on a table. The dog watched her obsessively, with its ears perked up. She then opened a newspaper and held it in front of her face. The dog watched her, pausing a moment. Then it pulled backwards and slipped out of its collar, which hung in midair. It quietly stepped behind her, gingerly grabbed the food off the plate and then slipped around her and back into its collar. The girl looked over her paper and saw the dog sitting there quietly. She patted it on the head and looked over at her plate. She seemed puzzled, pulled out another piece of food and repeated the routine a couple of times, getting laughs and applause from the audience. Finally she pulled a giant hot dog (obviously a toy) out of the bag and placed it on the plate and resumed reading. The dog slipped around again and grabbed the hot dog. But when it went to slip back into its collar it couldn't. The expression on its face was priceless as its head darted from side to side, looking for a place to stash its stolen goods. The girl looked up from the paper and caught the dog with a loud, "Ah-HA!" She took the dog off stage, and the rest of the show was a series of remarkable antics with all different kinds of animals. The most remarkable were the trained cats that would rappel across ropes or climb obstacle courses on cue. Some of the cats behaved as I would have expected, stubbornly refusing to do anything. That got big laughs. There were also trained doves, ducks, dogs, a mouse and a pig. When doors opened, I could see stacked cages backstage. Animals would emerge from hidden doors on the stage, run across, then disappear through another hidden door on the opposite side while often being chased by other animals. I assume their cages were positioned there. They certainly wouldn't want cats, birds, mice and dogs all running around in the same room together. The show was a lot of fun and much more entertaining than I had expected. The skies cleared up a bit. We paused from the photography in Killarney to ride Corkscrew Hill. I remembered liking this simulator the last time we were here. The entrance to the ride was such a relief from the heat. It was a dark, air-conditioned tunnel made to look like a cave entrance. Atmospheric sounds filled the air, with voices whispering around us. We stood there for a long, long time before moving. Several people in front of us turned around and walked out. But we didn't mind because it was so cool. After about a half-hour, we wound our way through the tunnel to the ride's entrance. The attendant apologized, saying that one of the simulators was broken. (I never knew there were two of them!) She let us in and we picked up a pair of green-framed 3-D glasses and walked around a corner to another more plain corridor. The doors at the end of that corridor opened, and we entered the pre-show area, basically a small room with a railing at one end (so the audience would keep away from the screen). The screen had a looped film of a 3-D animated grassy field, presumably in Ireland, with a gentle breeze blowing through. I put on my glasses. The 3-D qualities popped out from the screen, with long strands of grass in front of others and tree branches with rich depth. A stereotypical irish character (a computer- generated 3-D animation) walked on screen and told us he was going to make us one of the "little people." He blew "fairy dust" on us and we shrank down. His big face dropped to ground level and he warned us to be careful and told us to step on the little lights in the next room. Doors to the right swung open and we stepped through to the next room. There were small circular multicolored lights on the floor, evenly spaced in a grid. From the last time we were there, we knew what to do. So I stood on a light in front of Karen. Before we got separated because we didn't know how the simulator was laid out. The irish character appeared on a screen again and told us to walk in, take a seat and buckle up. Doors in front of us opened and we were herded into the simulator. The entire floor of the room was a giant moving platform. It sat about fifty people. There was a big screen in front of us with the "fairy dust" image looped in a dizzying pattern. Karen and I were in the front row, in the center. I realized later that if we had stood on the lights that were in the middle of the room, we would have sat at the simulator's center and the jerky motions would have been minimized. As it was, we were basically sitting on the end of a plank that would be flipping up and down like a manic see-saw. On the screen, the two huge eyes of a child appeared as if he were peering into a small box into which we were placed. The kid said he'd found some fairies and another kid he was with said we should take them to a local proprietor who'd know what to do with them. And off we went, with the simulator's platform tossing us about as if we were being carried by a running child. The short film was non-stop action with some really stunning 3-D effects, culminating in being carried thousands of feet into the air and dropped toward the ocean below. It was still the best simulator I've ever seen and it had a good story that blended well with the Killarney theming. The 3-D computer animation held up remarkably well. But Karen and I got off the ride with sore necks and backs. The abrupt motions of the platform were just a bit severe. If we ever ride this again, we'll sit in the middle.... After two exhaustive hours covering the entire park, my camera exhausted its battery. I put it back in our car and we spent the rest of the day leisurely taking in the sights one last time. We brought our sandals again, and started off in our usual spot: Pompeii. Then we walked over to La Cucina for some good pizza dripping with cheese. The crust was interesting. It was almost like a pastry, rather than standard pizza crust. We took another ride on the Roman Rapids. We sat with a family. The raft spun a lot that time. It was more like being on a Tilt-a-Whirl. We then queued up for our favorite coaster, Apollo's Chariot. As we approached the front seat, an announcement was made that the ride was shutting down due to bad weather. The skies had turned dark gray. Distant rumbles of thunder could be heard. We waited a few minutes, but it didn't seem like the ride would be re-opening soon. We were going to instead hop on the train, but that too was shut down. In fact, every ride in the park except for indoor attractions had shut down. So we walked over to the cleverly-named Roman Frieze and got some waffle cones. Because of the heat and high humidity, the ice cream started melting faster than we could eat it. Then it began to rain hard. Since there was no place to find cover except a small crowded gift shop, we stood under a tree. We were soaked from Pompeii and the Rapids anyway, so it didn't much matter. When the rain stopped we went into San Marco to catch the Rhythm Chefs. Four performers dressed in ridiculously colorful chefs' costumes created interesting music with pots, pans, cups and buckets. They also tap danced comically. They performed without saying a word to each other or the audience, who initially can be caught off-guard. The Chefs appeared by rolling a cart onto the midway. They "set up shop" right there for the first part of their routine, and an audience would gradually form around them. Then they moved into the Ristorante della Piazza and sat at one of the cafe tables in the audience, where they performed their terrific routine rhythmically banging cups while exchanging them back and forth with one another. Then they moved to the Piazza's big stage for their finale. It was a lot of fun. The performers were really engaging and seemed to be having a great time. We walked into Oktoberfest Gifts. I bought some souvenirs there. I was looking for a really nice paperweight I'd seen of Apollo's Chariot, but none of the employees seemed to know where it was. And I couldn't remember where I had seen it. As we headed out of the gift shop and across through the iron trellises, we noticed a big sign that had been placed off to the side. I was dark and mysterious, with jagged mountains and howling wolves faintly illustrated. "The other side is closer than you think," the sign proclaimed in bold red letters, "Coming Spring 2005." A worker who was there tending the flowers said he heard it was going to be an indoor roller coaster. Since the park's Mack Wilde Maus (formerly given the unwieldy name of Wild Izzy) was removed, Busch Gardens had just four major rides remaining. It's not that I missed the Wilde Maus. I thought it was the sloppiest installation at the park at the time. It was just a mass of yellow track plopped down onto the midway with no theming at all. It didn't fit into the rest of the park. I don't even think that the park needs more rides, because that's not what the experience is about. I just hope that whatever ride they get, it will be seamlessly integrated into the surrounding theming. That's what make this a great park. From there we went to the German Gift Shop in Rhinefeld. I stared longingly at the hundreds of clocks. There was one cuckoo clock carved to look like a sleigh. It cost over $400. I had one of the attendants demonstrate the sound of various clocks. I finally settled on a beautiful wooden cuckoo clock with a bird in flight carved into the top, surrounded by maple leaves. It had the sweetest-sounding cuckoo of any of them. (The cuckoo sounds by activating two tiny leather bellows that are hand-made. So no two clocks sound alike.) It cost me about $200, and I'm sure it will gain value over time. It was, however, extremely heavy. They double-bagged it for me. I had to carry it from underneath; I was afraid the bags would rip. We left the gift shop and headed for New France as it once again began pouring. We ducked for cover under an archway. We had a great view of Alpengeist cycling empty. Then a full train of passengers went by. That must have really hurt, flying at over 70 mph through heavy rain. The rain let up after a few minutes. We headed for the kettle corn stand and bought a bag. It was okay, a bit more salty than we were used to and not as sweet. We walked back through Killarney. The waterfall under the bridge to Banbury Cross was shrouded in magical mist. We stopped by the Emporium and bought a few more T-shirts. On the way out, I stopped by guest relations to tell them what a great time we had. The woman behind the counter seemed stunned. "Can I take your name and write down what you said and send it upstairs? All we ever get here are complaints. They'll be so happy to hear something positive!" We chatted for a while and then Karen and I left the park. Our three days there went by too quickly. It was a wonderful escape, and we certainly intend to return. If it weren't such a long drive, we'd make more use of our passports. On our way home, we took a different route, completely bypassing Interstate 95. While it didn't save us any time, the highway (Route 81) was lightly traveled, picturesque and the trip was much less stressful. We sadly had to pass by many other parks along the way home (Hershey, Dutch Wonderland, Dorney, Knoebel's), and many of the area's spectacular caverns. But we'll be back that way again. A trip through Pennsylvania and Virginia is always delightful. And for us, Busch Gardens might be the ultimate getaway. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Mon Jul 05 18:54:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39095 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 01:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 01:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 01:54:42 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.164.318d7f72 (4222) for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <164.318d7f72.2e1b6059@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:54:33 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.137 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: Specs for Motorbike Coaster, Toverland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Demographics Park:Toverland Type:Steel - Sit Down Status:Under Construction opening 7/3/2004 Make / Model:Vekoma / Motorbike Statistics Length (feet):1968' 6" Height (feet):49' 3" Inversions:0 Speed (mph):46.6 Duration (m:ss):1:10 G-Force (g):2.5 Acceleration:0 - 46.6 mph in 3 seconds Vehicles Arrangement:Single train with 8 cars. Riders are arranged 2 across in a single row for a total of 16 riders. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING - NHL CHAMPIONS, 2004 IN THE WARRIOR'S CODE, THERE IS NO SURRENDER! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Mon Jul 05 18:59:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22084 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 01:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 01:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 01:59:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2004 01:59:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:59:48 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <164.318d7f72.2e1b6059@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 758 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.69 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Misc: Specs for Motorbike Coaster, Toverland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, thunder7nyfl@a... wrote: > Demographics > Park:Toverland > Type:Steel - Sit Down > Status:Under Construction opening 7/3/2004 > Make / Model:Vekoma / Motorbike > > Statistics > Length (feet):1968' 6" > Height (feet):49' 3" > Inversions:0 > Speed (mph):46.6 > Duration (m:ss):1:10 > G-Force (g):2.5 > Acceleration:0 - 46.6 mph in 3 seconds > > Vehicles > Arrangement:Single train with 8 cars. Riders are arranged 2 across in a > single row for a total of 16 riders. This is not at all what I had expected. I was hoping that this would be a launched steeplechase type ride with a single rider per car / train. I think Vekoma may have missed an opportunity here if these are just trains with odd cars. Chris B From cameron@buzzneon.com Mon Jul 05 19:14:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85829 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 02:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 02:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 02:14:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 817 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2004 02:14:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20040706021401.816.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:14:01 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "munkye1972" at Jul 06, 2004 01:59:48 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: Specs for Motorbike Coaster, Toverland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > This is not at all what I had expected. I was hoping that this would > be a launched steeplechase type ride with a single rider per car / > train. Give it time.. It may very well evolve into something exceptional! Besides, I'm not going to give a final judgement until I see some pictures/video of it running. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Are we * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** there yet?! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Mon Jul 05 19:28:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29350 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 02:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 02:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 02:28:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 6920 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2004 02:28:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20040706022839.6919.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:28:39 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <200407050838.AA2527658298@karenandjay.com> from "Jay Ducharme" at Jul 05, 2004 08:38:09 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Busch Gardens Part 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > But thanks to ingenious placement and great theming, the coaster is > a heart-stopping thrill from start to finish. Heh .. I couldn't have described Big Bad Wolf in any more true terms! > I don't know why the over-the-shoulder harnesses were needed on this > ride. I always assumed it was was just easier to design it that way.. > From off of the lift, the track dove into a ravine that was peppered > with small structures looking like Bavarian homes and shops. Hopefully you got a chance to ride this at night .. All those little building are lit-up from the inside! It's so totally great! > diving down the cliff toward the water, whipping around a wide > left-hand turn at nearly a 90-degree banking and then racing > upwards around a right-hand turn before swinging into the brakes. I think that's probably one of my favorite sections of any coaster. I rode countless times, and laughed every time! > That might be why so many enthusiasts don't like Cedar Point's Iron > Dragon, which is a very similar ride except for the theming Iron Dragon is a pile .. Boring layout (that is very different to Big Bad Wolf), and no excitement at all. > It illustrates my point that a great coaster doesn't need to be the > biggest or the fastest, just well-designed. My thoughts exactly! > I'm curious as to how much of BBW's current design was Arrow-Huss', > how much of was Busch Gardens' and how much was Schwartzkopf's. I once read that the layout is Schwartzkopf's, and that the footers had already been poured once Arrow took over. Not sure how reliable that is, though. > We passed on Alpengeist. I rode it on our last visit and could barely > walk when I got off. Man .. you must have ridden a different ride! I was so let-down by Alpengeist that it actually made me sad. We only rode it once. It was a lot like Raging Bull .. big, tall, fast, but completely dull. Excellent trip report .. Don't know how I'm going compete with it when I finally get off my ass to write mine! Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Are we * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** there yet?! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From jay@karenandjay.com Tue Jul 06 06:22:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74472 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 13:22:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 13:22:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 13:22:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 06:20:07 -0700 Message-Id: <200407060620.AA1724710986@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: Dutch Wonderland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme >I will be going to Hershey in late August and can't decide on Dutch >Wonderland. Anyone have any opinions? < The park's about 20 minutes from Hershey. Karen and I enjoyed our little side trip there. We stayed about four hours. It was charming when we were there four years ago. Now that Hershey owns it, I'm not sure what changes have been made. The Sky Princess, CCI's first creation, gave a really fun ride for a "junior" coaster. We also enjoyed the two relaxing boat rides they had, and their miniature circus. They also had a nice flume that meandered about the Sky Princess' structure. One of the more memorable things was the gift shop. It's the only one I've ever been in that sold live crabs. I can still hear that odd clicking sound as they climbed around their wire mesh cage.... Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Tue Jul 06 06:51:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70386 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 13:51:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 13:51:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 13:51:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 06:49:15 -0700 Message-Id: <200407060649.AA2642280492@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: TR: Busch Gardens Part 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme > Hopefully you got a chance to ride this at night .. All those little building are lit-up from the inside! It's so totally great! < Oh man, that must be incredible! I never knew that. > Iron Dragon is a pile .. Boring layout (that is very different to Big Bad Wolf), and no excitement at all. < Hmmm...I wonder if Schwartzkopf really remains the genius behind BBW. > Man .. you must have ridden a different ride! I was so let-down by Alpengeist that it actually made me sad. < Yeah, when I rode it (two years ago) it was flying through the course. Some of the Gs were so intense I greyed out at one point. When Karen and I saw it running in the rain, it looked as if it was traveling much faster than normal. The mid-course brake was on very lightly. > Excellent trip report .. Don't know how I'm going compete with it when I finally get off my ass to write mine! < LOL! You flatter me... The hardest part is just sitting down to begin writing. My problem is that when I start, I have a hard time stopping! Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Tue Jul 06 06:51:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74855 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 13:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 13:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 13:51:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 06:48:36 -0700 Message-Id: <200407060648.AA1781006562@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: TR: Busch Gardens Part 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme > Hopefully you got a chance to ride this at night .. All those little building are lit-up from the inside! It's so totally great! < Oh man, that must be incredible! I never knew that. > Iron Dragon is a pile .. Boring layout (that is very different to Big Bad Wolf), and no excitement at all. < Hmmm...I wonder if Schwartzkopf really remains the genius behind BBW. > Man .. you must have ridden a different ride! I was so let-down by Alpengeist that it actually made me sad. < Yeah, when I rode it (two years ago) it was flying through the course. Some of the Gs were so intense I greyed out at one point. When Karen and I saw it running in the rain, it looked as if it was traveling much faster than normal. The mid-course brake was on very lightly. > Excellent trip report .. Don't know how I'm going compete with it when I finally get off my ass to write mine! < LOL! You flatter me... The hardest part is just sitting down to begin writing. My problem is that when I start, I have a hard time stopping! Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From cameron@buzzneon.com Tue Jul 06 11:37:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47630 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 18:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 18:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 18:37:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 15431 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2004 18:37:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20040706183749.15429.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com (Talk Coaster) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 13:37:49 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Trip Report: Paramount's Carowinds (June 16th and 17th, 2004) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Date: Wednesday June 16th and Thursday June 17th Weather: Hot and sunny Crowds: Almost nill For some reason, Paramount parks have always been low on my list of parks to visit. I have never been able to put my finger on why .. I mean, they all get pretty good reviews, and they all have reasonably good rides. Even more odd because I had a great day at Paramount Great America last year. I'm not saying I wasn't looking forward to Carowinds, just that, aside from Vortex and Top Gun, I wasn't dying to go. Turns out I had a really good time. I rocked up to Carowinds at about 5pm on Wednesday afternoon, after the awesome drive through the Smokey Mountains. It was a hot, hot day, with threatening clouds looming. The parking lot was empty, so I headed for the back entrance (the one near Top Gun) - a friend had told me to use that if it was open. Well, I'm glad I did! The back entrance to Carowinds is framed by the wonderful B&M Inverted coaster called Top Gun. OK, so the real name is "Top Gun - The Jet Coaster" .. but I'll just call it Top Gun for short. The pathway leading into the park runs right through the middle of the twisted track which makes up this wonderful ride. In fact, the huge Bat Wing passes right below the path, just inside of the entrance booths. I enjoyed this immensely, after frequently employing a similar trick in my Roller Coaster Tycoon parks: http://www.buzzneon.com/tycoon/six_flags_over_pld/banzai_run.jpg One of the things I noticed about Carowinds was that many of their coasters come right up to (and often over) the pathways .. making for a very photogenic park. Another odd thing was the music .. In the first 10 minutes there I heard the "Chariots Of Fire" theme, the "Beetle Juice" theme and the theme from Dallas, all in a row! The park seemed to have two quite different personalities; with one half being hilly and heavily shaded with loads of trees, while the other half was flat and covered with concrete (not ugly, just not terribly pretty). Carowinds also is unique in that it straddles the North/South Carolina border, with some coasters actually built across the state line. Does anyone know how this works? Is the park served by two separate electricity, phone, water companies? How do the state inspections work for rides which cross the border? Or is the whole property just considered to belong to one of the two states? Since Top Gun was looming above, calling my name, I hit that first: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail527.htm This was just fabulous! I have been waiting for an inverted coaster to rival Batman (The Ride), and I think Top Gun might just be it! OK, so the pacing on Top Gun may not be quite as completely insane as Batman, but it's certainly up there. I rode this more than any other ride in the park, and could not find a bad seat .. although I think I liked the front the most for the fabulous views and foot-choppers. The ride is only listed as 113 feet tall, but it felt a lot higher. Riders (particularly in the front rows) spend a lot of time dangling off the top of the lift, before gravity decides it's time to come down. Being mildly scared of heights, this really got my adrenaline glands going! The first drop is terrific, as is the loop, immelman, and Bat-Wing. The zero-g roll provides the usually nice sensations, with the added benefit of a very close call with one of the lift-hill supports. The many trenches on the ride add an extra thrill - especially in the front seat, but even further back you get treated to the extremely *loud* B&M roar. It also looked like there were misters in the trenches, but they weren't working .. anyone know the story on those? The overall layout is just great. The drop, loop, immelman and bat-wing provide hemorrhoid-pulling G's, but are followed by an awesome negative G hill over the base of the lift-hill (riders have to pull their feet up to avoid hitting the lift-hill motor!). This hill allows blood to return to your brain! I can't understand why people weren't lining up for this .. I was often able to walk right onto the front seat, and usually only have a two or three train wait when it got 'busy'. The ops were doing a very good job getting people through, rarely stacking trains (which is good, because the pre-station brakes grab *HARD* when a train stacks!). OK, so there are other rides at Carowinds .. One of these was Vortex: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail86.htm Of all the rides at Carowinds, I was actually most looking forward to riding Vortex. Iron Wolf is one of all time favorite rides (even if it isn't doing too well lately), and Vortex is a small stand-up coaster from the similar era (ie: early B&M). Well, Vortex let me down a bit. Sure, it was fast, fun, and surprisingly smooth .. but the ending just sort of fizzled out (compared to Iron Wolf, which has a terrific ending). The first half of the ride, however, was most excellent. Oddly enough, Vortex hurt my 'goolies' more than any other stand-up coaster has .. I think the bicycle seat is wider than the others I've ridden. I rode Vortex quite a bit, in many different rows (including front and back), and found it enjoyable pretty much where-ever I sat. It also seemed rather popular (which is nice to see of older rides), and the ops were doing a great job. When I returned for a final ride on Thursday, I met an op coming the other way down the stairs. "Ride's closed for a while", he said "protein spill!". Took me a little to get what he meant, but I turned around to head back to Top Gun .. there are some things I'm just not interested in seeing! BORG Assimilator: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail2514.htm I didn't try this since I got a few rides on it last year at Paramount's Great America. It was running one train on Wednesday evening (with over 60 minute wait), and two trains on Thursday (no shorter line, though). It appeared to go down several times during the day on Thursday, but looked to come back up again quite quickly. The theming around here was nice .. loads of water, and a ton of new baby trees. Pathways around the ride were lined with speakers, playing clips of conversation from the Borg .. in the line, waiting guests listened to the Enterprise crew talking about the mission. It wasn't Disney level theming, but I found it quite well done. The paint looked atrocious though .. after only a few months! There is a 'Board-Walk' section of the park .. which seemed odd because it was the one area with absolutely no water! The theming was just trying too hard, and I don't think it looked all that great. Still, it contained two nice little rides: Carolina Cyclone: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail81.htm This is a rough little Arrow double looping, corkscrew coaster. It's an odd little thing, with dark blue and black paint-job that make it sort of just blend in to the background. This was a walk-on all day, and I scored a few rides on it. The corkscrews are situated directly over the pathway, which is something that I always find cool. Carolina Goldrusher: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail83.htm I'm not a huge fan of mine-trains ... While I don't actively dislike them, they really don't do much for me. Of course, I think I'm spoiled by Whizzer at Six Flags Great America..! Anyway, this one had some good helixes and turns, and a cute little train. Rocochet: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1478.htm This little mad-mouse was fun, with light braking all the way through. Hurler & Thunder Road: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail85.htm http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail84.htm I have decided that wood coasters are like Sea Food .. just because some place offers it, doesn't mean it won't make you sick! Both of these were running quite rough, which was a pity because they both look excellent. Hurler almost looks like a Thunder Run (at Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom) clone, so I was very disappointed to get bad rides from it. The same is true of Thunder Road, which looks like it could deliver wonderful air. Oh well .. I knew I had some great wood coasters later in my trip, so I wasn't too devastated. Carowinds has one of the cool Vekoma inverted kiddie coasters, called Rugrats Runaway Raptar: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1897.htm Since they were allowing adults to ride, I decided to try it out. I'm really not a credit whore (I didn't even include this on my count), but was just interested in the ride. The first thing that struck me was the fact that it's actually an inverted coaster .. for some reason I'd thought these were suspended (with inverted style trains). After riding this, I think suspended may work better as it was really rough! Maybe I was just the wrong size/shape (ie: tall adult), but it beat me up more than any other ride in the park. Didn't seem to phase the kids though, who all seemed to love it! Good to see a ride with a bit of height for the kids area. Flying Super Saturater: http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail598.htm This is probably the coolest coaster concept I've ever seen! Why don't more parks have these?! I spent much time, in the heat of the afternoon, under this ride getting cool little showers. I didn't want to actually get saturated, so I opted not to ride, but it's a fun ride to watch. For those who haven't seen one of these, they're pretty simple. Small four person suspended cars travel the course, each rider is able to dump a bucket-load of water on top of people below. While the people below are able to drench the riders, with squirt guns or geysers. However people operating these devices are in prime locations to be dumped on by riders above. It's very well setup! I could see one of these being very popular in smaller parks (like Holiday World). Kids waiting in line would call out to people on the ride .. whenever anyone dumped water on them, the whole line would erupt in cheers and laughter. It was awesome! Overall I had a wonderful day and a half at Carowinds .. it certainly exceeded my expectations. Top Gun and Vortex are just amazing rides, and Hurler and Thunder Road could very easily be too (with just a little maintenance). The landscaping throughout much of the park is very nice (even though part of it still has to grow in), and the layout made it easy to quickly find any ride. I'm surprised that this park doesn't generate more positive comments (or maybe it has, but I just wasn't interested!). I spent several hours running around with the camera, so got plenty of pictures: http://www.buzzneon.com/coasters/carowinds_2004/ Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** 20 GOTO 10 * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From bethtoons@gmail.com Tue Jul 06 13:22:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11087 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 20:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 20:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.250) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 20:22:12 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so233003cwb for ; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr484651cwb; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304070613213d8a2bc2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:21:59 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.250 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: TR: Worlds of Fun 06/28/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons From Iowa, I headed to Kansas City. Worlds of Fun marked the end of a "Collection" for me. It was the only Cedar Fair park I'd not visited. That said, I wasn't exactly impressed and I have no intentions of visiting it again any time soon. It wasn't so much that is was a "bad" park; I was more unimpressed by its lack of originality. It was a strangely laid out (who puts Scandinavia next to the Orient?), with some areas towards the back of the park that seemed like wasted space, and some areas towards the front of the park that felt unnecessarily cramped. It had all the "charm" of Dorney without a Talon or a Laser to distract you from the "charm" of Dorney. There were pathways that went on forever before connecting to something that actually led to a ride, and some that should have connected to other paths that instead had dead ends. There did exist trees in the park, but none of them were situated in a manner that provided any relief from the sun. Once I made my way in, I bypassed the only line in the park at Spinning Dragons, and I stopped at Timber Wolf first. This woodie was something of a twisted L-shaped helixy out and back layout, with a decent sized footprint occupying most of the corner of the park. It was a little on the rough side but not bad for a Cedar Fair owned woodie. However, on a trip where I rode 12 woodies, 10 of which were new to me and several of which were outstanding, Timber Wolf was merely mediocre. I made my way to the back of the park, and next rode Mamba. Mamba is Steel Force, Steel Force is Mamba. Identical coasters with the exception of name and state, they even have the same location in the park, and they both overlook the employee parking lot. There are more things similar about the two coasters than there are different. So, I was as under whelmed with Mamba as I've come to be with Steel Force. It's not a bad coaster by any stretch, but it's not something I'd travel all this way for exclusively either. Next up was the Boomerang. It was a boomerang. An Egyptian themed faded orange and yellow boomerang with absolutely no shade in a big lot of dirt surrounded by lots of gravel and cement. On my way back up to the front of the park for Spinning Dragons, I stopped and rode a few standard flats and their train. Their non-coaster collection is quite standard, and about as impressive and original as their coaster collection. The train ride was a nice route that formed two loops, one that doubled back on itself out in a wooded area with "ghost town" props, and one that looped through the park. After wandering out of the park to lunch from the cooler in the car, I made my way back in to finally ride Spinning Dragons. From the impressions I have of the park, the removal of Orient Express to add Spinning Dragons seems unnecessary from a land-use perspective at least, as there seems to be plenty of poorly used, or unused land in and around the park. However, the location it is in fits the Spinning Dragons layout well, and from the pictures I've seen, I'm pretty sure that the layout is identical to the layout of the new spinner at Camp Snoopy in the MOA. This was my favorite coaster in the park. It seemed to spin better unbalanced with three riders than balanced with four, and all the rides I had were quite fun. The layout is obviously designed to aid in spinning the cars as much as possible but still in something of a controlled fashion with curved dips, mouse-like turns, and three mini-helices. I rerode Mamba a few more times, and got a few more rides on Spinning Dragons and left the park fairly early. Overall, the park under whelmed me. It felt very unoriginal, especially since I've been to all the others in the chain prior to visiting here. The other parks each have at least a tiny bit of originality to them (some less than others) and Worlds of Fun seemed to be severely lacking any inkling of originality. I could have or have ridden pretty much everything the park has to offer somewhere other than inside the park. The steel coasters are all clones, the selection of other rides in the park are standard, and a mediocre woodie and a 10-minute train ride don't exactly make a park stand out. I doubt I'll feel compelled to visit again until there are some new additions to the park. Beth From gburnash@earthlink.net Tue Jul 06 19:35:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91818 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 02:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 02:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 02:35:00 -0000 Received: from 0-2pool75-201.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.133.75.201] helo=Laptop) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bi2Gd-0000pe-00 for rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:34:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:34:19 -0700 To: "rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.54 From: George Subject: TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Saturday came a bit earlier than we had expected (thanks kids! grrrrr), and we packed up at my mother's house fairly quickly and were on the road around 8am for the 4 hour trip to St. Louis. In spite of a bit of rain along the way, we made pretty good time, and pulled into the park around 12:30, meeting up with Jon and Beth from the RCT list, and got ready for a day of Six Flags fun. The People- Me and Dave, my kids Amber and Joseph, and Beth and Jon from the list Weather- humid, with t-storms off and on in the early part of the day Crowds- very light After calling Beth, who had already met up with Jon, we decided we were going to hook up at the train station near the main entrance. We asked an employee where that was, and following her directions promptly got lost. That was one thing that we found typical of SFStL- it has what maybe one of the most confusing park layouts I've yet encountered. Dead ends, paths that didn't seem to make sense, and little around the park to indicate where you were or where you were going. More than once we found ourselves somewhere we didn't want to be and had to backtrack a different way- and that was with Jon being pretty familiar with the park. In any case, after meeting up, and seeing the complete lack of crowds due to the rain (yay!!) we started hitting up the coasters. We took a ride on their mine train first since it was the one closest to us. This was a typical Arrow mine train for the most part, and performed as such. As I recall off the top of my head, it had 3 chain lifts, including a very short second one. The ride seemed to be really broken up with not a lot of pacing due to the breaks, though it did have a very nice helix into a tunnel section. But overall wasn't all that impressive. Score: 6 of 10 From there, it was time for the woodies. With the rain falling, I knew that I was likely to get a bit better ride than normal, since the water on the tracks would provide some lubrication, which is something that I've heard the coasters don't see very much of. First wood of the day: Screaming Eagle. The Eagle was one of those coasters that when it opened must have been a sight to behold. Even now it was a nice looking coaster, though it was obvious that it hadn't been receiving the care that it should, with paint peeling, a couple of unpainted boards showing where some work had been done, etc. It had the PTC trains and no line, and we were out fairly quickly. It has some great drops, and some decent airtime, but a couple of things were obvious fairly quickly. First was what I called the stutter drops all over- where the coaster tries to drop but doesn't quite do it. After a few small jerks it finally does, and it feels like it's stuttering. The other thing was that while the coaster wasn't bad, it was painfully obvious that with some TLC, regauging the track to take care of the shuffling and stuttering, and some other basic work, this would be an incredible coaster. It could likely fall into my top tier of coasters- if it was taken care of so it could run like it looks capable of. But as it is, it comes out pretty short. It still would manage a 7 on the scale, but I have a feeling that it was helped with the water on the tracks. And Jon mentioned that it was the best rides he'd had on it in a while. Next up was the Boss- a coaster that from what I've heard was awesome when it opened, but quickly declined. It's a CCI creation running the dreaded Gerstlaur's. The kids sat out this one and the other 4 of us lined up to get on. It has an incredible first drop, especially with the double down, and maintains an incredible, torrid pace at the begining of the ride, which only drops off a bit during the second half. Fast and furious would be a great description of it. But it certainly has the banging and slamming that I'd come to expect. I kept myself well braced, holding on tightly, while I rode with Beth, and we let Dave and Jon know that they to should "assume the position." Doing that, it gave a good ride. But I'd hate to think how it would feel if we weren't holding on (there weren't many that brave), and again, I have to think that the water on the tracks helped, as the coaster seemed to roll well, as opposed to the scraping along that I've heard some say it does. For our rides, I would give it a 7.5, but that is certainly tempered by knowing what I was getting into and the weather. I've got a strong feeling that it normally wouldn't rank that high. We took a quick round on their Enterprise, which all of us enjoyed, decided that the sky coaster was to expensive, and watched the magic show, where Joseph got one of the rolls. Jon was also lucky enough to be blessed by us harassing him afterwards for taking us to it, as it was so badly acted, adn the sound on it so poor at times, that it became a running joke as to if anything was worse than the show was. We're still looking! ;P Since we were right by it, we risked our lives on the Vekoma masterpiece known as Ninja, taking in a back seat ride as I'd been advised to by someone else on the list. Ninja contains a loop, sidewinder, and corkscrew, runs the arrow style trains, and, of course includes lots of head banging and typical Vekoma attempts at injuring their passengers on larger coasters. If the back on it is the best spot, I'd hate to see what worse is. Ouch. This bad (!) boy gets a rousing 3 on the scale. Batman came in here somewhere. It's queue was a bit different than some of them, being especially long, with no way to cut it down in size, and created some more jokes. The "park" part of it seemed to have a large section of sewer pipe thrown into it, just for the queue. The "road" was over the queue, and I wouldn't have noticed it except I saw the gaurdrail portion on the way out. And it had the most anal retentive ride op on the PA I think I've ever heard. "Don't sit on the handrails." "Don't unbuckle your seatbelt until you're in the station or I'll kick you off the ride." "Don't play with your selt belt latch or I'll get mad." and on and on, all with a great twang. We were wondering if we were going to get in trouble for looking crosseyed, leaning on the wall, or breathing wrong. Then, to top it off, they caused a zone violation and had to shut the coaster down until maintanance could come over to reset it. As Beth put it, "That'll teach them to try to be efficienct" :) In any case, Batman as a ride was fairly typical, even if it was actually Namtab (mirror image), but seemed a bit slower than some of the others, with us barely noticing the foot tingle that is usually pretty apparent in the back seat. But still an excellent ride, once we actually got on it. Score: 8.5 Lunch at the Mooseburger came next, and we got there and under shelter just in time for the sky to really open up and let loose. I mean it poured, and poured hard and for quite a while. Still, while we were enjoying our food, that didn't bother us a bit. The price on the other hand..... nearly $45 for 2 rib dinners with drinks and 2 kid's meals. A season pass discount helped a bit, but that's still pretty steep. Especially compared with our meals at Denny's later on that night, where it cost $33 for 5 of us to eat. There was only one coaster left, and it was the one that I'd been most anticipating: Mr. Freeze. Lines were short, and we found out to our pleasure that it was because they were operating both sides of the station. So we got to see the loading process in full swing with the trains switching back and forth- a lot of fun to watch and see. My only disappointment with this was that it didn't work out where we got come back for more rides. Freeze is everything that I had hoped for- great launch and just a ton of fun all the way through, both forwards and backwards. An awesome, awesome ride! An easy 9.5. While the kids, Dave, and Jon went on the rapids, Beth and I tried to do a bit of shopping and do a magnet exchange, since she had bought some for me at other parks that I had missed them at in the past. While doing so, we found one problem that has become a frustration for me on this trip- souveniers. The park had a lot of generic Six Flags merchandise, and had some souveniers for the city of St. Louis, but trying to find something that said Six Flags St. Louis, or even Mid America, was very difficult. No magnets, 2 keychains, and only one smashed penny that we could find. Pitiful. I ended up buying a 3 glass set that at least represented the park, but wasn't real happy. It's incredible to me that a park this size doesn't have any of those basics that are park specific and instead only has the generic chain crap. We came back in, regrouped, and grabbed rides on their giant ferris wheel for some picture taking, Excalibur (which the 3 of us that rode all thought was excellent!) and the log flume, which was only running one side. It's the first time in a long time that I've seen a park with 2 flumes that run pretty close to parallel to each other. The last one I recall similar to this was SFoT, which I believe has actually removed one of theirs now, and only has one left. Was a nice quick flume, though not very wet. We also split into groups of 3 for the Scooby Blasters, which had the longest wait of the day at around 15 minutes. Dave, Jon, and Amber took off in one group, while Joseph, Beth and I were in the other. And I do have to say, I kicked some serious butt on this, easily scoring the highest of our group, and stealing a lot of Beth's shots along the way (she sat behind me in the boat). Yes, my laser tag experience finally came in handy for something. :) For those interested, the score to beat (if I remember it right- Beth, correct me if I'm wrong) was 35,750. After that, we took a bit of time in the kids area to let me two run around a bit, tried more shopping with little success, got to talk to Brian on the phone for a bit (AFLAC!!) and watch the 2 girls working at one of the photo booths utterly ignore us. Thankfully they were a bit nicer at the other booth, but I couldn't believe that they couldn't even be bothered to say, "I'll be with you in just a minute" or something at the one. geesh. Overall, we had a pretty good day. The park certainly has lots of quirks, and we ran into more quirky or apathetic employees than I would have liked. This is a park that can be great, but as it is comes in around mediocre. Of course the typical clientele doesn't seem to help, but it would give Jeff Foxworthy a field day to come to this park. :) The light crowds were wonderful though, in allowing us to do everything in the park, leave to get dinner, miss their fireworks which we don't think they ever set off, and get to bed a bit early for leaving the next day. :) INTERLUDE Originally our plans had been to spend Sunday morning at SFStL, anticipating the park to be much busier than it was on Saturday. Since we had covered the park, we left early Memphis and parts beyond. We drove past the arch, going through downtown and dodging all the closures for the festival on the grounds around it. (Be proud of me- we passed it by, even though it had at least one coaster set up there. hehe) Then we headed out to Memphis, taking a bit of time to stop at Graceland, put a couple of dollars in Priscilla's pocket for the parking, take some pictures, and get a couple of souveniers without spending the outrageous amounts they charge for the actual tours. Then it was off to Libertyland. Libertyland is a nice small park that actually opened for the first time on a July 4th, so every year for the 4th celebrates it's birthday as well as that of the country. It's not a big park, but does have a couple of coasters, including Elvis' favorite, a log flume, and several other rides. As we arrived and started driving around it, it looked very quiet- unusually so in fact. As we got to the front of the park, we learned why. They had lost the power a few hours before we arrived, and had originally told people that they would get it up and reopened within a short time. They never did and apparently gave up on it and just shut down for good shortly before we got there. One family we talked to in the lot had spent $70 to get in, and got 45 minutes in the park before they shut it down. Then, according to this family, they didn't provide any means of refunds, reimbursements, or any contact with any management. Of course that was only one part of the story, and I'd love to hear the park's version of what happened. As it was, I was a bit sad to miss this park, as it looked like it could have been a lot of fun. Though with the number of cars trying to come in and being told it was closed, it looks like it would have also been very crowded. So maybe it was for the best. In any case, at that point, we turned towards Nashville instead, making up some ground and reducing the long drive that we had planned the next day to Pigeon Forge. Found a nice place about 20 minutes outside of Nashville to stay the night and set off some fireworks for the 4th, which was fun. Coming up soon: TR's from Dollywood, SFoG (happening tomorrow) and Wild Adventures keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Tue Jul 06 19:35:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75239 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 02:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 02:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 02:35:09 -0000 Received: from 0-2pool75-201.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.133.75.201] helo=Laptop) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bi2H3-0000u7-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:35:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:34:42 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <23.40b181d9.2e16001e@aol.com> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <23.40b181d9.2e16001e@aol.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.54 From: George Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Help Planning My Vacations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Posting from on the road is so much fun, but did want to throw in my 2 cents here: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:02:38 EDT, wrote: > I would choose the week in October, and the PA parks trip. While PA parks > are also open only on weekends, you could start your week at Knoebels > for the > Phoenix Phall Phunfest, which is on the ninth of October this year, and > is one > of the top coaster events of the year. It is also cheap and you don't > have to > be in any club to enjoy it. > > After that, Hersheypark is just an hour and a half away, as is Dorney > Park. > You could check out NYC, Philly, and/or Washington, which are all close > by, > during the week, or head westward towards Ohio and Cedar Point. But > getting in > on PPP is a great suggestion for you, as it is a great event. This sounds like one of the best suggestions yet! PPP is a great event, and one well worth attending if you can, and you'll get in some great coasters while you're there. You can also book in other parks in the area through the weekends, and there is a lot to see and do during the week that is not park centered. With DC so close, there is several days worth of sightseeing to do there, and Pennsyvania has a lot worth seeing also. Plus that area in the fall is easily one of the prettiest places I've ever seen. The woods and all the colors are simply gorgeous and a sight well worth seeing. So even though I'm a CA native, I'd have to point you towards the Ohio/ PA area. Especially since you've already been in CA fairly recently. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From munkye1972@yahoo.com Tue Jul 06 22:13:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17329 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 05:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 05:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 05:13:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.250] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jul 2004 05:13:34 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 05:13:31 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1005 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, George wrote: > There was only one coaster left, and it was the one that I'd been most > anticipating: Mr. Freeze. Lines were short, and we found out to our > pleasure that it was because they were operating both sides of the > station. So we got to see the loading process in full swing with the > trains switching back and forth- a lot of fun to watch and see. My only > disappointment with this was that it didn't work out where we got come > back for more rides. Freeze is everything that I had hoped for- great > launch and just a ton of fun all the way through, both forwards and > backwards. An awesome, awesome ride! An easy 9.5. George Sorry to hear about Libertyland, George, I remember that was one of the parks you were really trying to include. I am glad you enjoyed Mr. Freeze, though, It is by far one of my favorite launched / shuttle rides. I would have liked to see two train operations though. Chris B From bethtoons@gmail.com Wed Jul 07 07:52:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91645 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 14:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 14:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.248) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 14:52:22 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so68506cwc for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.57 with SMTP id x57mr518810cwb; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304070707522aa9c520@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:52:16 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.248 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:34:19 -0700, George wrote: I had a whole nice long reply typed out last night, and then the power blew from a passing thunderstorm. So, I'll try again. I'm gonna be lazy and piggyback on your TR since I have a few of my own left to write still. > In any case, after meeting up, and seeing the complete lack of crowds due > to the rain (yay!!) we started hitting up the coasters. Due to the rain, and the big festival in downtown St. Louis and the holiday weekend... Hmmm.. I seem to recall some skepticism about going to a park on the Saturday before the 4th. I also seem to recall predicting that there wouldn't be crowds. > From there, it was time for the woodies. With the rain falling, I knew > that I was likely to get a bit better ride than normal, since the water on > the tracks would provide some lubrication, which is something that I've > heard the coasters don't see very much of. First wood of the day: > Screaming Eagle. > > The Eagle was one of those coasters that when it opened must have been a > sight to behold. Even now it was a nice looking coaster, though it was > obvious that it hadn't been receiving the care that it should, with paint > peeling, a couple of unpainted boards showing where some work had been > done, etc. It had the PTC trains and no line, and we were out fairly > quickly. It has some great drops, and some decent airtime, but a couple > of things were obvious fairly quickly. First was what I called the > stutter drops all over- where the coaster tries to drop but doesn't quite > do it. After a few small jerks it finally does, and it feels like it's > stuttering. The other thing was that while the coaster wasn't bad, it was > painfully obvious that with some TLC, regauging the track to take care of > the shuffling and stuttering, and some other basic work, this would be an > incredible coaster. It could likely fall into my top tier of coasters- if > it was taken care of so it could run like it looks capable of. But as it > is, it comes out pretty short. It still would manage a 7 on the scale, > but I have a feeling that it was helped with the water on the tracks. And > Jon mentioned that it was the best rides he'd had on it in a while. I rode this twice, as we rode it before you arrived, and both rides were in or after the rain, so I never experienced a dry run either. Your assessment is pretty accurate. I still don't know that it would be a top-tier worthy coaster if it were in pristine condition though, since there did seem to be a good deal of flat track and rampy hills in the mix. As it was, it basically fell into the realm of mediocre. > Next up was the Boss- a coaster that from what I've heard was awesome when > it opened, but quickly declined. It's a CCI creation running the dreaded > Gerstlaur's. The kids sat out this one and the other 4 of us lined up to > get on. It has an incredible first drop, especially with the double down, > and maintains an incredible, torrid pace at the begining of the ride, > which only drops off a bit during the second half. Fast and furious would > be a great description of it. But it certainly has the banging and > slamming that I'd come to expect. I kept myself well braced, holding on > tightly, while I rode with Beth, and we let Dave and Jon know that they to > should "assume the position." Doing that, it gave a good ride. But I'd > hate to think how it would feel if we weren't holding on (there weren't > many that brave), and again, I have to think that the water on the tracks > helped, as the coaster seemed to roll well, as opposed to the scraping > along that I've heard some say it does. For our rides, I would give it a > 7.5, but that is certainly tempered by knowing what I was getting into and > the weather. I've got a strong feeling that it normally wouldn't rank > that high. That Mean Streak riding position has saved my back several times, and this was definitely a coaster that warranted it. Now if I could only figure out how to ride an SLC without it inducing whiplash and a headache... Anyway, I admit I did not approach this coaster uninfluenced, and in hindsight it probably wasn't as bad as my initial impression. I very possibly could have even tollerated a second run. There were a few redeemable elements, and many others that would have realigned my spine in a bad way had my back been in contact with the bench. > We took a quick round on their Enterprise, which all of us enjoyed, > decided that the sky coaster was to expensive, and watched the magic show, > where Joseph got one of the rolls. Jon was also lucky enough to be > blessed by us harassing him afterwards for taking us to it, as it was so > badly acted, adn the sound on it so poor at times, that it became a > running joke as to if anything was worse than the show was. We're still > looking! ;P Heh, it wasn't so much a magic show as a really bad stage production and puppet show. There was no magic to speak of. It was obviously aimed at kids, the performer looked like he didn't want to be there, the kids looked like they didn't want to be there, and I now have pictures of a very bored looking Joseph on stage trying to preserve his hearing. > Since we were right by it, we risked our lives on the Vekoma masterpiece > known as Ninja, taking in a back seat ride as I'd been advised to by > someone else on the list. Ninja contains a loop, sidewinder, and > corkscrew, runs the arrow style trains, and, of course includes lots of > head banging and typical Vekoma attempts at injuring their passengers on > larger coasters. If the back on it is the best spot, I'd hate to see what > worse is. Ouch. This bad (!) boy gets a rousing 3 on the scale. Next to the unfortunate bad decision on my part to pick up a certain SLC credit at a certain park in Kentucky on my way home, this was the worst coaster of the trip. It looked like a bad Arrow coaster, when Jon informed me that it was in fact not a bad Arrow, but a bad Vekoma, I think I cringed even more. This was just painful. And the experience was all the more enhanced by the constant stream of foul language coming from the seats behind me (no, not from George, he was on the train after ours). > Batman came in here somewhere. It's queue was a bit different than some > of them, being especially long, with no way to cut it down in size, and > created some more jokes. The "park" part of it seemed to have a large > section of sewer pipe thrown into it, just for the queue. The "road" was > over the queue, and I wouldn't have noticed it except I saw the gaurdrail > portion on the way out. And it had the most anal retentive ride op on the > PA I think I've ever heard. "Don't sit on the handrails." "Don't > unbuckle your seatbelt until you're in the station or I'll kick you off > the ride." "Don't play with your selt belt latch or I'll get mad." and on > and on, all with a great twang. We were wondering if we were going to get > in trouble for looking crosseyed, leaning on the wall, or breathing > wrong. Then, to top it off, they caused a zone violation and had to shut > the coaster down until maintanance could come over to reset it. As Beth > put it, "That'll teach them to try to be efficienct" :) Don't forget, that zone violation was further "enhanced" by the ops trying to get the crowd to sing, and Jon trying to get the ops to "dance like the guy in the commercial". Crowd participation during a wait is commendable, but there are very few parks that can actually get away with it... typically those with Six Flags in the name don't fall into that category. > There was only one coaster left, and it was the one that I'd been most > anticipating: Mr. Freeze. Lines were short, and we found out to our > pleasure that it was because they were operating both sides of the > station. So we got to see the loading process in full swing with the > trains switching back and forth- a lot of fun to watch and see. My only > disappointment with this was that it didn't work out where we got come > back for more rides. Freeze is everything that I had hoped for- great > launch and just a ton of fun all the way through, both forwards and > backwards. An awesome, awesome ride! An easy 9.5. Agreed. The two train operation was a treat to watch and the ride was awesome. Brian, I think I like Batman Chiller a smidge better (although I've not ridden it since we caught it the one time in 2002), but I definitely liked Freeze over Robin Chiller. > While the kids, Dave, and Jon went on the rapids, Beth and I tried to do a > bit of shopping and do a magnet exchange, since she had bought some for me > at other parks that I had missed them at in the past. While doing so, we > found one problem that has become a frustration for me on this trip- > souveniers. The park had a lot of generic Six Flags merchandise, and had > some souveniers for the city of St. Louis, but trying to find something > that said Six Flags St. Louis, or even Mid America, was very difficult. > No magnets, 2 keychains, and only one smashed penny that we could find. > Pitiful. I ended up buying a 3 glass set that at least represented the > park, but wasn't real happy. It's incredible to me that a park this size > doesn't have any of those basics that are park specific and instead only > has the generic chain crap. I didn't have real high expectations for the gift shops this year as I suspected early on that they were heading towards generic chain wide stuff to cut costs. I would be less disappointed if it were consistant across the chain though. If none of the parks sold park specific stuff, I wouldn't be thrilled with it but at least it would be consistant. They managed to figure out how to have identical merchandise that is still labeled with different park names on some items, but not others. And some parks have a ton of park specific merchandise and some have none. So, I guess my frustration is more in the inconsistancies than anything else. If I know for a fact I won't find what I'm looking for because they all have identical generic stuff, then I won't waste my time looking. Likewise, if I know that I will find something if I look, I'm more likely to go looking for it and spend some extra cash in their park. > We also split into groups of 3 for the Scooby Blasters, which had the > longest wait of the day at around 15 minutes. Dave, Jon, and Amber took > off in one group, while Joseph, Beth and I were in the other. And I do > have to say, I kicked some serious butt on this, easily scoring the > highest of our group, and stealing a lot of Beth's shots along the way > (she sat behind me in the boat). Yes, my laser tag experience finally > came in handy for something. :) For those interested, the score to beat > (if I remember it right- Beth, correct me if I'm wrong) was 35,750. You did a wonderful job outscoring against a child and a girl :P It was 45,750 to my 24,000. Between the two of us in the boat, poor Joseph barely got in any shots. > Overall, we had a pretty good day. The park certainly has lots of quirks, > and we ran into more quirky or apathetic employees than I would have > liked. This is a park that can be great, but as it is comes in around > mediocre. Of course the typical clientele doesn't seem to help, but it > would give Jeff Foxworthy a field day to come to this park. :) The light > crowds were wonderful though, in allowing us to do everything in the park, > leave to get dinner, miss their fireworks which we don't think they ever > set off, and get to bed a bit early for leaving the next day. :) I don't know that quirky is the right word. Quirky can still be charming, and it was at least a step or two below that. The layout was odd and a little frustrating, there were a couple decent coasters and several mediocre or bad ones. As much as Jon talked down the park, there were still some nice areas. It shows potential, and I'm curious as to how much worse it was before this year's improvements started inching in. > > INTERLUDE > Libertyland is a nice small park that actually opened for the first time > on a July 4th, so every year for the 4th celebrates it's birthday as well > as that of the country. It's not a big park, but does have a couple of > coasters, including Elvis' favorite, a log flume, and several other > rides. As we arrived and started driving around it, it looked very quiet- > unusually so in fact. As we got to the front of the park, we learned > why. They had lost the power a few hours before we arrived, and had > originally told people that they would get it up and reopened within a > short time. They never did and apparently gave up on it and just shut > down for good shortly before we got there. One family we talked to in the > lot had spent $70 to get in, and got 45 minutes in the park before they > shut it down. Then, according to this family, they didn't provide any > means of refunds, reimbursements, or any contact with any management. Of > course that was only one part of the story, and I'd love to hear the > park's version of what happened. As it was, I was a bit sad to miss this > park, as it looked like it could have been a lot of fun. Though with the > number of cars trying to come in and being told it was closed, it looks > like it would have also been very crowded. So maybe it was for the best. I'll write my TR from Memphis soon. Libertyland was a decent little park and I think you're kids would have had fun there. But at least you weren't the ones who shelled out the cash to get in only to have the park close on you shortly after. Something tells me we wouldn't ever hear the end of that *cough* Cedar Point *cough* ;) Ok, I'm picking on Geroge a little too much now ... It was a fun day, and I was glad to meet up with some people while I was on this trip. By the time I got to St. Louis I was getting a little sick of spending so much time by myself. So thanks for meeting up with us in St. Louis, Jon. And I hope the rest of your trip and your move goes well, George. Beth From cameron@buzzneon.com Wed Jul 07 08:35:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68490 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 15:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 15:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 15:35:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 28994 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Jul 2004 15:35:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20040707153527.28993.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:35:27 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "George" at Jul 06, 2004 07:34:19 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Nice report George .. and of a park I'd like to visit one day (mainly for Mr Freeze and the Batman mirror..). > Next up was the Boss- a coaster that from what I've heard was awesome when > it opened, but quickly declined. It's a CCI creation running the dreaded > Gerstlaur's. My respect for CCI's has fallen a lot over the last year or so. It seems a shame that the only way to maintain their rides is for an ex-employee of the company to over-see all the maintenance (ie: Holiday World). Are these things really so badly built that they rip themselves to shreds so quickly? Viper at Six Flags Great America is 8 or 9 years old, has had no major track work (that I know of), and still runs amazingly well. Am I missing something?! > enjoying our food, that didn't bother us a bit. The price on the other > hand..... nearly $45 for 2 rib dinners with drinks and 2 kid's meals. I don't know .. ribs are costly pretty much anywhere you go! > While the kids, Dave, and Jon went on the rapids, Beth and I tried to do a > bit of shopping and do a magnet exchange I have been trying to buy good fridge magnets for years .. there are NONE! It's so depressing. I was surprised, at Kennywood, to see about 10 different types of magnets. I think I picked up one of each. I miss Kennywood.. > (she sat behind me in the boat). Yes, my laser tag experience finally > came in handy for something. :) For those interested, the score to beat > (if I remember it right- Beth, correct me if I'm wrong) was 35,750. While I love those dark rides, I am spectacularly bad at them! My official excuse is that I never wear my glasses into the parks :-) > They had lost the power a few hours before we arrived, and had > originally told people that they would get it up and reopened within a > short time. They never did and apparently gave up on it and just shut > down for good shortly before we got there. "Sorry folks, park's closed. Moose out front should have told you!" > Coming up soon: TR's from Dollywood Say "hi" to Dolly for me! Tell her I'll be back next year.. Also, be sure to hit the "Berries And (ice)Cream" stand up near Tornado .. Mmmmmm Great trip report George. I'd like to visit ... wait, I've already said that! Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Life! Don't talk * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** to me about life.. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Wed Jul 07 08:38:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20030 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 15:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 15:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 15:38:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 29032 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Jul 2004 15:38:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20040707153826.29031.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:38:26 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304070707522aa9c520@mail.gmail.com> from "Beth Aslakson" at Jul 07, 2004 10:52:16 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey Beth, > Next to the unfortunate bad decision on my part to pick up a certain > SLC credit at a certain park in Kentucky on my way home, this was the > worst coaster of the trip. AAww .. T2 at Kentucky Kingdom really didn't beat us up quite that much. I mean, it wasn't fun by any stretch of the imagination, but it certainly didn't hurt. Although I think I'm more sensitive to rough riding wooden coasters than I am to steel .. Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Life! Don't talk * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** to me about life.. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From bethtoons@gmail.com Wed Jul 07 09:32:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52701 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2004 16:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2004 16:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.251) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2004 16:32:19 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so278809cwb for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr532536cwb; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f3040707093259afe13c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:32:04 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040707153527.28993.qmail@buzzneon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040707153527.28993.qmail@buzzneon.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.251 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:35:27 -0500 (CDT), cameron@buzzneon.com wrote: > > While the kids, Dave, and Jon went on the rapids, Beth and I tried to do a > > bit of shopping and do a magnet exchange > > I have been trying to buy good fridge magnets for years .. there are > NONE! It's so depressing. > > I was surprised, at Kennywood, to see about 10 different types of magnets. > I think I picked up one of each. I miss Kennywood.. It really depends on the park. I have a ton from Kennywood, Knoebels, Silver Dollar City, and Holiday World... a few from the Disney Parks, Busch Parks, Cedar Fair Parks, Paramount Parks... and they seem to be hit or miss at the other small parks, and the Six Flags parks. I was actually surprised to find one at Arnolds Park... and I think the Six Flags Parks and Libertyland were the only parks I hit on this trip that didn't have any magnets. If you want to try and find really obscure collectables from parks, try collecting Christmas ornaments... those are imposible to find. > > (she sat behind me in the boat). Yes, my laser tag experience finally > > came in handy for something. :) For those interested, the score to beat > > (if I remember it right- Beth, correct me if I'm wrong) was 35,750. > > While I love those dark rides, I am spectacularly bad at them! My official > excuse is that I never wear my glasses into the parks :-) > And yet I think you still did better than I did on the one at Indiana Beach last year. Beth From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Wed Jul 07 17:10:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1415 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 00:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 00:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 00:10:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 00:10:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 00:10:45 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2003 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani When I'm playing Roller Coaster Tycoon, I always try to get as many different types of coasters as possible. It got me thinking about how some types of coasters are much rarer than others. For example, checking the RCDB, there's only one pipeline coaster in all of North America. There's only a handful of side-friction wooden coasters remaining. Now, some styles, like 4-D coasters, use new technology, and tech that's shown some difficulties the one place it's been implemented. And side-friction coasters have the opposite problem-- they were pretty much made obsolete by more modern wooden coasters. But some other coaster types have been around for a while, but still only exist in limited numbers. Only ten suspended coasters in North America, only a handful of which are single-rail suspended. The RCDB doesn't break out single-rail non-suspendeds (e.g. Steeplechase, Wacky Soap Box Racers), but I imagine those are pretty rare. Only four bobsleds. But what about oddities like the Virginia Reel? Do any of those remain? How popular were they at their peak? Wooden Reverser coasters? Wooden Wild Mouse? I'd think that parks would like to offer as many unique experiences as possible, as a general policy, as long as there isn't some kind of operating problem endemic to these less common coaster types, or if the expense is too big. I remember on the short-lived Spellbreaker at Legoland, a single-rail suspended racing coaster, the throughput was just too slow and the ride too short to justify the wait. But I don't see why a similar ride that was longer, went through a forested area, and had cars redesigned for higher capacity could succeed. What about bobsleds? I remember riding the Sarajevo Bobsleds once or twice at SFMM back in the 1980s (now the Vibora in Texas), and it was at least different. Is the technology inherently difficult to make work right? I can't imagine making a Virginia Reel work would be more expensive than, say, an LIM coaster. Adam From Xcoaster@juno.com Wed Jul 07 17:55:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: xcoaster@juno.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15700 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 00:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 00:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m28.nyc.untd.com) (64.136.22.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 00:55:37 -0000 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: S1XTBOmPsohiKv2kq6/VWnACKdNxMBtxhViIxy5OlECt9qSkdcCpHQ== Received: (from xcoaster@juno.com) by m28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JZYSXZ7Y; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:54:16 PDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 17:49:40 -0700 Message-ID: <20040707.174941.-1941623.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-28,37-44,60-63,70-84,90-96,109-113,116-117,121-124 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.136.22.91 From: Xcoaster@juno.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61538169 X-Yahoo-Profile: xcoasterxtreme On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 00:10:45 -0000 "adamnvillani" writes: > When I'm playing Roller Coaster Tycoon, I always try to get as many > different types of coasters as possible. It got me thinking about > how some types of coasters are much rarer than others. For example, > checking the RCDB, there's only one pipeline coaster in all of North > America. There's only a handful of side-friction wooden coasters > remaining. Now, some styles, like 4-D coasters, use new technology, > and tech that's shown some difficulties the one place it's been > implemented. And side-friction coasters have the opposite problem-- > they were pretty much made obsolete by more modern wooden coasters. > > But some other coaster types have been around for a while, but still > only exist in limited numbers. Only ten suspended coasters in North > America, only a handful of which are single-rail suspended. The RCDB > doesn't break out single-rail non-suspendeds (e.g. Steeplechase, > Wacky Soap Box Racers), but I imagine those are pretty rare. Yep, the one in Blackpool is the only one left that I know of. > Only > four bobsleds. There are actually quite a few of those throughout the world. > But what about oddities like the Virginia Reel? Do > any of those remain? I'm 99% sure they're all gone. However, Arrow did have a plan for a modern version that would use their standard steel track with trains of several of these spinning tubs. I think there aren't any of these around now since there are plenty of other spinning coasters, especially recently, and the Virginia Reel's layout was basically that of a Wild Mouse's but with the spinning. So a modern spinning Wild Mouse is pretty close to one. Like the Side Friction, they became outdated, although it wasn't until just recently that they really became outdated. Why they died out originally, I don't know. > How popular were they at their peak? Not sure, but I know a number of them existed. > Wooden Reverser coasters? This ride is somewhat of an oddity in RCT. I don't know of any of these ever existing in real life exactly as they are presented in RCT. There were the old Reverser coasters but they were more like a shuttle coaster where a coaster train went down to one end of the track and was put onto another parallel track and was sent back the way it came. However, these aren't possible in RCT without some hacking. The closest thing in real life to this kind of coaster seems to be your standard Scenic Railway, except I don't know if any of those ever had those reverser sections. But there are still several of these in existence. One other difference between the Scenic Railway and RCT's Reverser is that some of the Scenic Railways had seats that were facing sideways, rather than straight ahead. I suppose if reverser sections were used with those, they would be a wooden precursor to Japan's Speed Boarder coaster. Also, Scenic Railways sometimes have brake men riding on board, which aren't in RCT. So all in all, the Wooden Reverser is a quirky creation that mixes several old types of coasters into one. As far as I understand it, at least. > Wooden Wild Mouse? I think there are still two of those about. One (with RCT's mouse cars) named Wild Mouse at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and another (with RCT's mine carts) named King Solomon's Mines, who knows where. Both in England. And they both do the leaning over the edge thing. These used to be very common. Probably not the safest rides. However... Mack is making a modern incarnation of these with their Fun Coasters which lean when going around turns. > I'd think that parks would like to offer as many unique experiences > as possible, as a general policy, as long as there isn't some kind > of operating problem endemic to these less common coaster types, or > if the expense is too big. I remember on the short-lived > Spellbreaker at Legoland, a single-rail suspended racing coaster, > the throughput was just too slow and the ride too short to justify > the wait. > But I don't see why a similar ride that was longer, went > through a forested area, and had cars redesigned for higher capacity > could succeed. Short lived?!? What? Is it gone? Anyways, hopefully that was a typo. I do agree that it would be a pretty fun ride if the layout was vastly improved, but right now it's fairly dull and with a long line. I think one of these would be cool with longer cars, maybe holding 3-4 riders and maybe with open sides and riders straddling a bench in the center, sort of like Vekoma's motorbike coaster. > What about bobsleds? I remember riding the Sarajevo > Bobsleds once or twice at SFMM back in the 1980s (now the Vibora in > Texas), and it was at least different. Is the technology inherently > difficult to make work right? Not really, just the engineering and design hasn't been going too well with Mack and Intamin bobsleds. Intamin ones (such as Sarajevo Bobsleds) are all notoriously boring (in fact, someone at my church even brought it up recently) so I imagine that's why they aren't too popular with parks. From what I understand, they're dull because of being overbraked, having a poor layout, and only having the small little cars. And the Mack models tend to be hit-or-miss with some pretty fun designs and some in the mediocre range. I was actually pretty dissapointed with the Mack bobsled I rode. I think it's only problem was that it started too late and ended too early. But as was mentioned in a Rollercoaster! article, if Mack could design a bobsled coaster with a faster paced layout more like those of the old Flying Turns coasters, that would be a great ride. If someone would pay for it. I can't imagine making a Virginia Reel > work would be more expensive than, say, an LIM coaster. Like I said about the Reel's, their modern incarnations of the Spinning Mice and all those other spinning coasters coming out almost make them obsolete. But I get your point. You know, one really rare coaster you didn't mention was the old spinning coaster from RCT1 that was taken out of RCT2. I think there's only one of those in real life, if that. That one was kind of like Arrow's Virginia Reel. Ryan "I like Mack" Snooks Xcoaster@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From gregleg@gregleg.com Wed Jul 07 18:27:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gregleg@gregleg.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13480 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 01:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 01:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO atlas.jtan.com) (207.106.84.159) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 01:27:04 -0000 X-JTAN-Envelope-From: gregleg@gregleg.com X-JTAN-Envelope-To: Received: from raven (thebe.jtan.com [207.106.84.138]) by atlas.jtan.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i681R3X3016924 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200407080127.i681R3X3016924@atlas.jtan.com> To: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:27:04 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRkhlSKklxMSlaZR5OaudAY8kHudgABBwNA In-Reply-To: <20040707.174941.-1941623.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.106.84.159 From: "Greg Legowski" Subject: RE: [RollerCoasterTalk] Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=102344349 X-Yahoo-Profile: GregLeg1 > > Wooden Wild Mouse? > I think there are still two of those about. One (with RCT's > mouse cars) named Wild Mouse at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and > another (with RCT's mine carts) named King Solomon's Mines, > who knows where. Both in England. Southport Pleasureland. Best. Mouse. Ever. --Greg "Some people will go to any lengths to get a ring; others, having had one for a while, will go to any lengths to chuck it into a volcano." -- Liz Langley From Cyclonic07@aol.com Wed Jul 07 19:00:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19052 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 02:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 02:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m15.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.205) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 02:00:23 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1de.24485b2a (3850) for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1de.24485b2a.2e1e049c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:59:56 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.205 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: Waldameer New Coaster Pics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/4/2004 6:14:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, spartankicker@yahoo.com writes: I visited Waldameer Park yesterday (TR coming shortly) and got to ride their still unnamed Maurer-Sohne Xtended SC 2000. The ride is very, very fun. The spinning is not as intense as you would think...nothing like the spins you can get on the Reverchon Spinning Mouse. The spins almost feel controlled, even though the car's spin is based on weight distribution. You can view 17 pictures of the ride that I took yesterday by clicking the link (or copy/paste the text into your browser): http://www.thrillnetwork.com/dbgallery/index.php?rideid=1783 If you're anywhere near Salt Lake City-Lagoon, Erie (PA) and Rochester-Seabreeze this summer, make it a point to ride one of these things. They're a very enjoyable ride. *************************************************** Glad it is up and running. I rode the one at Seabreeze last month and had a great time. It is a very fun, enjoyable ride that the entire family will enjoy. The pictures look great too. I like the art on the sides of the cars. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 00:09:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43569 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 07:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 07:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 07:09:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.190] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 07:09:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 07:09:49 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040707.174941.-1941623.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2971 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.77 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.207.56 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Xcoaster@j... wrote: > > doesn't break out single-rail non-suspendeds (e.g. Steeplechase, > > Wacky Soap Box Racers), but I imagine those are pretty rare. > > Yep, the one in Blackpool is the only one left that I know of. Hm! Funny, when I was a kid I didn't realize how rare the Wacky Soap Box Racers were. They were a fun ride; I think there were 4 tracks all racing alongside each other, with some good cartoony theming. > > Only > > four bobsleds. > > There are actually quite a few of those throughout the world. The RCDB shows 4 in North America, 5 in Europe, and 1 in Asia. Fairly uncommon, all things considered. You know, thinking back, I think my reaction to the Sarajevo Bobsleds at SFMM even at the time (I was about 12) was that it was an interesting concept but that they didn't do enough with them. > the Virginia Reel's layout was basically that of a Wild > Mouse's but with the spinning. Good point, at least as far as the layout and the forces on the rider. The main thing they'd bring new to the table is that they'd just look so darned weird. > The closest thing in real life to this kind of coaster seems to be > your standard Scenic Railway, Yeah... it would be interesting to see one of those implemented in RCT. Or maybe a scenario in which you're limited to pre-WWII rides, if they introduced more of them into the game. Some of the old seaside amusement parks (like the Pike in my hometown of Long Beach, CA) would include amusements that would be difficult to incorporate into the game, though, like public swimming pools, dance halls, tattoo parlors, freak shows, etc. > I think there are still two of those about. One (with RCT's mouse > cars) named Wild Mouse at Blackpool Pleasure Beach One of these days I'm gonna have to get there... it sounds like a great combination of the old and the new. > I remember on the short-lived > > Spellbreaker at Legoland, > > Short lived?!? What? Is it gone? The RCDB shows it as having operated until 2003; I last went in December of 2003 and I believe it was SBNO. > But I get your point. I guess some of the old rides weren't engineered to be as safe as ones today, either, but some updates to the design could make for some interesting results. Another related question on RCT vs. the real world: what exactly are the real-world analogues of the "Vertical" coaster type in the game and the "Air-Powered" type, the one with the weird track layout limitations? I'd think that Excelerator and TTD would be the "Vertical" type, except for the weird car designs they've got in the game. Are there vertical coasters out there that have cars resembling the ones in the game? How about Inverted Wild Mouse? Where could one of those be found? The one type of ride I haven't been on that I'm most eager to try is a flying coaster... it sounds like a great idea, but the closest one is in Colorado. Thanks, Adam From jay@karenandjay.com Thu Jul 08 05:39:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59697 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 12:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 12:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 12:39:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:40:33 -0700 Message-Id: <200407080540.AA638451762@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: TR: Worlds of Fun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme > It felt very unoriginal, especially since I've been to all >the others in the chain prior to visiting here. The other parks each >have at least a tiny bit of originality to them < This brings up an interesting question: how jaded can enthusiasts become? I have a TR coming about Great Escape, and I've found that I kept comparing it to Busch Gardens, which really isn't fair. When I've experienced the "best" parks, it's tempting to think that all parks should meet that standard. But many because of their finances simply can't. And not everyone can be "the best." I wish I could evaluate each park as if I were a newbie seeing it for the first time. I don't mean heaping praise upon everything and drooling like an idiot (I do that anyway), but seeing each park from a fresh perspective. Or even seeing each park from a local's perspective. That would help keep amusement parks from getting stale for me. Because let's face it...there are only so many things that can be done with a midway. And many smaller park owners get their ideas from the "best" parks and try to emulate them as best as they can without having the necessary capital. Riverside did this in the 1950s after Ed Carroll, Sr., visited Disneyland. (I think Ed Carroll, Jr., spent most of his free time at racetracks....) Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Thu Jul 08 06:20:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90575 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 13:20:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 13:20:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 13:20:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 06:21:35 -0700 Message-Id: <200407080621.AA2291466362@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re:Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme Fascinating questions, Adam! > But what about oddities like the Virginia Reel? Do >any of those remain? How popular were they at their peak? < Probably about as popular as modern "oddities" such as Vekoma SLCs. Look through Cartmell's "Incredible Scream Machine" and you'll find dozens of novelty coasters over the years. There have always been parks looking for something new, from the aborted Coney Island Cannon Coaster to the Intamin Space Diver. The Wild Mouse began as a novelty but was so popular and affordable that the ride became ubiquitous. > Wooden Reverser coasters? < I've seen photos of these, so I know they existed. But again, it was a limited novelty. > Wooden Wild Mouse? < I rode one many years ago. When steel fabrication became more practical and affordable, mice turned metal. As with so many rides in general, the market drives their creation. If they're popular in one park, other parks order them as they can afford to. Many of the rides you mention were popular just before the Great Depression, which eventually wiped out a huge percentage of US parks. When the parks disappeared, so did the rides. And parks really didn't start to make a comeback until the 1950s. At that point, about the only two wooden roller coaster companies left were PTC and NAD. I'm sure if someone placed an order today for a Virginia Reel, there would be a company willing to build it. The technology is fairly simple. (The original wooden structure on the old rides must have taken one heck of a beating.) IMO, the new spinning coasters are simply an update of that concept. >I'd think that parks would like to offer as many unique experiences >as possible, as a general policy < Interesting point. You'd think that would be true. But parks really want to offer the most *popular* experience. No matter how unique a ride is, if no one wants to ride it then no park wants it. That decision is driven by the park's market--what the guest in that particular area wants to do. The market for new extreme thrill rides seems to be drying up, so we may never get to ride a "Screaming Squirrel" at a nearby park. But the business is always cyclical. Eventually everything old is new again. >What about bobsleds? < There never were many of these to begin with (Flying Turns), and IMO the market is limited. They're expensive to install and expensive to maintain. Cedar Point has one, and there's rarely a wait for it. So it's not like the public is desperate for the Bobsled experience. If you really want that, go to Lake Placid. ;-) Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 06:48:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72001 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 13:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 13:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52906.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.183) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 13:48:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20040708134836.10303.qmail@web52906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 06:48:36 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 06:48:36 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200407080540.AA638451762@karenandjay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.183 From: Adam Sandy Subject: Re: TR: Worlds of Fun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >(I think Ed > Carroll, Jr., spent most of his free time at > racetracks....) He had to spend some time watching Nazi propaganda films, I don't know where else he would have learned Riverside's ride op. behavior from. Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 06:54:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53877 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 13:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 13:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 13:54:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.122] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 13:54:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:54:31 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 512 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.77 From: "Adam Sandy" X-Originating-IP: 64.238.5.14 Subject: Re: Misc: Specs for Motorbike Coaster, Toverland X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > This is not at all what I had expected. I was hoping that this would > be a launched steeplechase type ride with a single rider per car / > train. I think Vekoma may have missed an opportunity here if these > are just trains with odd cars. To me, from an operations POV this just makes more sense for park owners. If you went with indiviual cars you have horrible capacity and if you went with 4 tracks like Arrow did on their version of the Steeplechase really creates a staggering steel cost. Adam From lance@screamscape.com Thu Jul 08 08:03:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21070 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 15:03:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 15:03:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 15:03:01 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i68F2wo0042255 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:02:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 62064 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 15:02:58 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 15:02:58 -0000 Message-ID: <043101c464fc$ae8f9c80$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <200407080127.i681R3X3016924@atlas.jtan.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:03:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > > > Wooden Wild Mouse? > > I think there are still two of those about. One (with RCT's > > mouse cars) named Wild Mouse at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and > > another (with RCT's mine carts) named King Solomon's Mines, > > who knows where. Both in England. > > Southport Pleasureland. Best. Mouse. Ever. While I havn't been on a wooden wild mouse, I have to say that I'm torn between the unbraked Mack Mouse at Hersheypark, Exterminator at Kennywood and the Arrow Mad Mouse at Michigan's Adventure for best mouse ever. I was so surprised by how good the Arrow Mad Mouse was I can believe they havn't made a ton of these. From lance@screamscape.com Thu Jul 08 08:34:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91967 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 15:34:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 15:34:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 15:34:26 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i68FYNBu067140 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 87273 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 15:34:23 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 15:34:23 -0000 Message-ID: <050c01c46501$12870df0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <20040707.174941.-1941623.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:34:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > > But what about oddities like the Virginia Reel? Do > > any of those remain? > > I'm 99% sure they're all gone. However, Arrow did have a plan for a > modern version that would use their standard steel track with trains of > several of these spinning tubs. I wouldn't be surprised to see S&S (since they bought Arrow) attempt to made some kind of new Wooden Virginia Reel since they are pushing their new wood coaster division. Plus, I have been hearing rumors about a new park concept in development in Wisconsin (Merrie Old England) that wants a wooden virginia reel coaster themed to drunken Friar Tucks Barrels or something like that... So you never know, the concept may come back. > > What about bobsleds? I remember riding the Sarajevo > > Bobsleds once or twice at SFMM back in the 1980s (now the Vibora in > > Texas), and it was at least different. Is the technology inherently > > difficult to make work right? > > Not really, just the engineering and design hasn't been going too well > with Mack and Intamin bobsleds. Intamin ones (such as Sarajevo Bobsleds) > are all notoriously boring (in fact, someone at my church even brought it > up recently) so I imagine that's why they aren't too popular with parks. > From what I understand, they're dull because of being overbraked, having > a poor layout, and only having the small little cars. And the Mack models > tend to be hit-or-miss with some pretty fun designs and some in the > mediocre range. I was actually pretty dissapointed with the Mack bobsled > I rode. Mack actually made a brand new bobsled just a couple of years ago for Parc Asterix in France. I found the Mack bobsled I rode at PKD very enjoyable... but I also kind of liked the Intamin one at Cedar Point (Disaster Transport). I don't know why so many people seem to hate that one, the cars with side by side seating are so much better than the inline seating used on the SFMM/SFOT version. Plus either it is more unbraked or you just don't notice it because of the darkness... From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 08:41:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73610 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 15:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 15:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 15:41:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.138] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 15:41:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:41:01 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 815 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.65 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 205.56.145.36 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "adamnvillani" wrote: What about bobsleds? I remember riding the Sarajevo > Bobsleds once or twice at SFMM back in the 1980s (now the Vibora in > Texas), and it was at least different. Is the technology inherently > difficult to make work right? I can't imagine making a Virginia Reel > work would be more expensive than, say, an LIM coaster. > > Adam Great Q, indeed! I am surprised to find how many "oddities" I've gotten to ride. More than 1/2 the bobs, Leap the dips, both steeples, and one of the wood mice! Some are nice, but nothing special, others, Well, I think the Wild Mouse at Blackpool was Incredible! I could not stop laughing, or reriding! I'd like to see some more of these classic and different rides come back. Chris B From Xcoaster@juno.com Thu Jul 08 11:36:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: xcoaster@juno.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62250 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 18:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 18:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m28.nyc.untd.com) (64.136.22.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 18:36:21 -0000 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: S1XTBOmPsohiKv2kq6/VWjzuC/tSAa0R2Q8lYGy1C80/lNI9fcUXgQ== Received: (from xcoaster@juno.com) by m28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JZ2PNU8V; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:35:19 PDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:29:50 -0700 Message-ID: <20040708.112950.-1942819.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-14,16-24,26-39,43-44,46-67,69-74,76-81,83-90,92-101,107-109,111-116,122-123,125-127 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.136.22.91 From: Xcoaster@juno.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61538169 X-Yahoo-Profile: xcoasterxtreme On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 07:09:49 -0000 "adamnvillani" writes: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Xcoaster@j... wrote: > > > > doesn't break out single-rail non-suspendeds (e.g. Steeplechase, > > > > Wacky Soap Box Racers), but I imagine those are pretty rare. > > > > Yep, the one in Blackpool is the only one left that I know of. > > Hm! Funny, when I was a kid I didn't realize how rare the Wacky Soap > Box Racers were. They were a fun ride; I think there were 4 tracks > all racing alongside each other, with some good cartoony theming. Yeah, I used to love that ride as a kid. I remember I used to think it was like what riding in a bobsled would be like. > > the Virginia Reel's layout was basically that of a Wild > > Mouse's but with the spinning. > > Good point, at least as far as the layout and the forces on the > rider. The main thing they'd bring new to the table is that they'd > just look so darned weird. And the seating would be more fun since you're arranged in a circle and you could probably slide all over the barrel. And you'd spin more. > > The closest thing in real life to this kind of coaster seems to be > > > your standard Scenic Railway, > > Yeah... it would be interesting to see one of those implemented in > RCT. Or maybe a scenario in which you're limited to pre-WWII rides, > if they introduced more of them into the game. Some of the old > seaside amusement parks (like the Pike in my hometown of Long Beach, > CA) would include amusements that would be difficult to incorporate > into the game, though, like public swimming pools, dance halls, > tattoo parlors, freak shows, etc. Maybe in RCT3 they'll have more of the older rides. So far it looks like they might since it seems like they've been including all sorts of random rides from Skywheels and Rockin' Tugs to Topscans and Round Ups. I wouldn't doubt it at this rate. Oh, BTW, the random roller coaster that came up for me on rcdb today was a scenic railway: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1054.htm?Picture=19 > > I remember on the short-lived > > > Spellbreaker at Legoland, > > > > Short lived?!? What? Is it gone? > > The RCDB shows it as having operated until 2003; I last went in > December of 2003 and I believe it was SBNO. It looks like you're right. That's too bad. I had no idea. > Another related question on RCT vs. the real world: what exactly are > > the real-world analogues of the "Vertical" coaster type in the game Oblivion @ Alton Towers http://www.rcdb.com/quicksearch.htm?quicksearch=Oblivion and Diving Machine G5 @ Janfusun Fancyworld in Taiwan. It's also just called G5. Funny, that park also has a B&M floorless I've never heard of. http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1417.htm Neither of these have the vertical loop that's in RCT either. Also, one of these B&M Dive Machines might be built at Busch Garden's Tampa Bay. > and the "Air-Powered" type, the one with the weird track layout > limitations? I'd think that Excelerator and TTD would be > the "Vertical" type, except for the weird car designs they've got in No, Dodonpa @ Fuji-Q Highland in Japan (the 2nd fastest coaster in the world) http://www.rcdb.com/quicksearch.htm?quicksearch=Dodonpa and Hypersonic XLC @ Paramount's Kings Dominion in Virginia http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail729.htm Both are Thrust Air 2000 models by S&S. Intamin's Rocket Coasters such as Xcelerator and TTD are sort of like Intamin's version of them. > the game. Are there vertical coasters out there that have cars > resembling the ones in the game? Yep, see above. > How about Inverted Wild Mouse? > Where could one of those be found? Umm, I'm not entirely sure. It's similar to Arrow's Arrowbatic Prototype without the inversions, but I think there is a coaster out there that actually exists that is similar to this, except that it has banked turns instead of the flat ones. These two coasters called Queen Bee made by Pinfari look somewhat similar except that it's hard to compare the cars from the pics. http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1570.htm http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1871.htm I think the one that's very similar is a traveling coaster so it's not on RCDB.com. But I think someone on here might be able to find pics for it. > The one type of ride I haven't been on that I'm most eager to try is > a flying coaster... it sounds like a great idea, but the closest one > is in Colorado. The one in Colorado isn't supposed to be very good. However, there are a few others throughout the states such as the BORG Assimilator in Carolina, Superman at SFOG in Georgia, SFGadv in New Jersey, and SFGam in Illinois, as well as X-Flight at Geauga Lake in Ohio, and Batwing at SFA in Maryland. And there are two the same as the one in Colorado at Rye Playland in New York and Paramount Canada's Wonderland. This is sort of off subject, but I also just noticed on rcdb.com that the first X-Car coaster will be built. Ryan Snooks Xcoaster@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 11:47:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81022 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52909.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.186) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 18:47:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20040708184740.9659.qmail@web52909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:47:40 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:47:40 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040708.112950.-1942819.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.186 From: Adam Sandy Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > > How about Inverted Wild Mouse? > > Where could one of those be found? > > Umm, I'm not entirely sure. It's similar to Arrow's > Arrowbatic Prototype > without the inversions, but I think there is a > coaster out there that > actually exists that is similar to this, except that > it has banked turns > instead of the flat ones. Yup, Reverchon Gliding Coaster: http://www.downloads.amusementrides.de/ra_coaster/gliding_coaster/gliding_coaster.html Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From bethtoons@gmail.com Thu Jul 08 12:51:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70072 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 19:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 19:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.245) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 19:51:55 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so94239cwc for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 12:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.53 with SMTP id x53mr567950cwb; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 12:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f3040708125136f35530@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 15:51:47 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200407080540.AA638451762@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200407080540.AA638451762@karenandjay.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.245 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: Worlds of Fun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:40:33 -0700, Jay Ducharme wrote: > > It felt very unoriginal, especially since I've been to all > >the others in the chain prior to visiting here. The other parks each > >have at least a tiny bit of originality to them < > > This brings up an interesting question: how jaded can enthusiasts become? Gee, thanks for the nice complement, Jay :P Actually, I'd probably be the first to admit that I've become jaded. I know you weren't necessarily being hard on me or my TR about WoF, but since that is what this is replying to, that is where I will draw my examples from in replying to your comments. > I have a TR coming about Great Escape, and I've found that I kept comparing it to Busch Gardens, which really isn't fair. When I've experienced the "best" parks, it's tempting to think that all parks should meet that standard. But many because of their finances simply can't. And not everyone can be "the best." > Our comparisons come from our experiences and our expectations. I wasn't expecting Busch Gardens when I went to Worlds of Fun, I would have been even harder on it if I were trying to compare it in context to some of the best parks I've visited, so I didn't draw my comparisons or expectations from there. However, I was expecting something comparable to the experiences I've had with Dorney or Valleyfair because the parks are similar in size and are all part of the same chain. I can understand how you would want to start drawing those comparisons from park to park though, and it is hard to alter ones expectations, especially when visitng a mix of parks that aren't on the same level as one another. >I wish I could evaluate each park as if I were a newbie seeing it for the first time. I don't mean heaping praise upon everything and drooling like an idiot (I do that anyway), but seeing each park from a fresh perspective. Or even seeing each park from a local's perspective. That would help keep amusement parks from getting stale for me. > That's the downfall of knowledge. You can't necessarily go back to entering a situation ignorantly again. I wish I could go back to being scared or intimidated by coasters (the adrenaline rush was better), but I can't. I've moved past that and I've had to find different ways to enjoy coasters now that they no longer invoke that fear from me. It's not a bad perspective, just a new one. > Because let's face it...there are only so many things that can be done with a midway. And many smaller park owners get their ideas from the "best" parks and try to emulate them as best as they can without having the necessary capital. > This is true, there is a lot of duplication and emulation out there, and there are a lot of standards. I expect to run into a zillion Galaxies and Zyklons and kiddie coasters and boomerangs and SLCs and there are obviously a lot of flat rides that are standards. However, even a park full of the same typical stuff and clones and repeats will usually have at least one thing that is exceptional or historical or noteworthy or unique. Maybe it is that I've become jaded. However, I was hard on WoF because I couldn't identify anything at WoF that was so exceptional I would go back even if I otherwise didn't care much for the park, I didn't find anything that was novel enough to hold my attention for the time I was in the park or even keep me there more than a few hours, and I didn't identify anything that was so horrible I never wanted to go back. Beth From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 13:34:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 959 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 20:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 20:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 20:34:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.254] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 20:33:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:33:55 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040708.112950.-1942819.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 783 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.91 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Xcoaster@j... wrote: > Yeah, I used to love that ride as a kid. I remember I used to > think it was like what riding in a bobsled would be like. I only went on its replacement, the short-lived Windjammer, once, and I barely remember it. I'm headed over to Knott's after work today, though; should be fun. > And the seating would be more fun since you're arranged in a circle and > you could probably slide all over the barrel. And you'd spin more. True. They seem kinda like a land-based version of a Roaring Rapids type of ride. Thanks for all the links to the unusual coasters... Oblivion at Alton Towers certainly looks well-named. (I should have thought to look there, since there's one in RCT's version of the park.) Adam From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 08 17:39:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11190 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 00:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 00:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 00:39:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 00:38:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:38:54 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040706183749.15429.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 108 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Paramount's Carowinds (June 16th and 17th, 2004) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 great TR, cam. im going to try and get there next month while im in tennessee(after dollywood, of course). From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 08 17:41:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36531 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 00:41:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 00:41:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 00:41:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 00:41:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:41:13 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f3040707093259afe13c@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 319 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.73 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Beth Aslakson wrote: > If you want to try and find really obscure collectables from parks, > try collecting Christmas ornaments... those are imposible to find. how bout coaster shirts that dont look like metal-band t-shirts? THAT is downright impossible. From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 08 17:46:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8126 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 00:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 00:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 00:46:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 00:46:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:46:38 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1021 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.68 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "adamnvillani" wrote: > When I'm playing Roller Coaster Tycoon, I always try to get as many > different types of coasters as possible. It got me thinking about > how some types of coasters are much rarer than others. For example, > checking the RCDB, there's only one pipeline coaster in all of North > America. There's only a handful of side-friction wooden coasters > remaining. Now, some styles, like 4-D coasters, use new technology, > and tech that's shown some difficulties the one place it's been > implemented. And side-friction coasters have the opposite problem-- > they were pretty much made obsolete by more modern wooden coasters. id still love to see an Oblivion on american shores. i know a lot of people think its ho-hum, but can you imagine, say, a 300ft tall version; being held that high up, staring straight down for around 15 seconds or so, then dropped? heck, imagine THAT off the top of the Stratosphere in Vegas! From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 08 17:58:03 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5424 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 00:58:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 00:58:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 00:58:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 00:58:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:58:02 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200407080621.AA2291466362@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 965 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re:Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Ducharme" wrote: > Fascinating questions, Adam! > > > But what about oddities like the Virginia Reel? Do > >any of those remain? How popular were they at their peak? < > > Probably about as popular as modern "oddities" such as Vekoma SLCs. Look through Cartmell's > "Incredible Scream Machine" and you'll find dozens of novelty coasters over the years. There have > always been parks looking for something new, from the aborted Coney Island Cannon Coaster to the > Intamin Space Diver. The Wild Mouse began as a novelty but was so popular and affordable that the > ride became ubiquitous. actually, this brings up something ive been thinking about; since it was before my time as a coaster geek, and while ive heard many people refer to it, its never discussed in detail, so...what exactly was The Bat? what did it look like? did anyone here every ride it? what was so wrong with it? From jay@karenandjay.com Thu Jul 08 17:59:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75372 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 00:59:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 00:59:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 00:59:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0700 Message-Id: <200407081801.AA1654325540@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: TR: Great Escape, 7-7-04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme New York's Great Escape has long been one of our favorite parks. Although I had many concerns when Charlie Wood, the founder, sold the park to Premiere Parks (now Six Flags), our trip last year showed that the new owners still cared about the heritage of this unique park. It's often called the first "theme" park. Wood opened it fifty years ago as Storytown. Its location near Lake George made it a popular tourist stop. The park has been growing ever since. Perhaps the biggest addition was The Comet, the resurrection of the legendary roller coaster from defunct Crystal Beach in Ontario. Wood along with then General Manager Tom Wages performed perhaps the greatest restoration work ever performed on a roller coaster. I made the two-and-a-half hour drive several times each season just to ride that coaster. But what I perhaps liked best about The Great Escape was that it had such a frozen-in-time feeling to it. There were so many antique rides that Wood had rescued at auctions. Many were from the New York World's Fair. The park had two miniature train rides, swan boats, Cadillac cars, a wonderful flume, the quirky Jungle Land, and tons of charm. It was obvious that Wood loved the park and the amusement business. Those memories are what bring Karen and me back to the park. We don't go as often as we used to anymore, even though it's free with our Six Flags passes (and parking is still free!). Maybe that's because Lake Compounce has lots of charm too, and it's a lot closer to us. Maybe it's how all of the funny posters and signs that were on the Storybook houses (like wanted posters at the jail for fictional bad guys) have been removed and replaced with terse signs that tell you not to enter unless you accompany someone 54" or shorter. There were lots of little things about the park that seemed to bleed away the personality that we treasured. The weather was perfect, with clear skies and mild temperatures. We arrived at 10:30 and the park was already quite packed. Several busloads of kids from camps were there. The main parking lot was over half full. The Steamin' Demon had a new paint job and still looked stunning sitting there above the parking lot. That's probably one of the greatest ballyhoos any park has had. We walked past the packed ticket booths to the packed entryway. There were long lines at all of the gates, and they weren't moving very quickly. There were metal detectors and security guards at all the gates and everyone was being checked thoroughly. It was more like entering an airport. When I finally approached, the guard told me to remove my fanny pack. I told her that if I did, my shorts would fall down (which was true; the pack functioned as my belt). "Oh, then we won't have you do that," she said. Karen picked up a thick brochure from the rack as she entered. It was like a small program. The first page listed info about various guest service, like first aid. The next page listed all the corporate sponsors. Then there was a page full of tiny type with the heading Park Policies. "We appreciate your cooperation!" the first paragraph said, cheerfully Orwellian. It began with the Dress Code ("All clothing is subject to management review and discretion.") and ended with Safety ("Guests with certain body proportions involving height and/or weight may be denied the opportunity to ride attractions....") Hmmm... are there body proportions that *don't* involve height and/or weight? So our first impression of the park was that it was somewhat like a military compound. The next pages in the brochure were Dining and Shopping. The last thing listed was Rides & Attractions. Then there were more ads. Buried inside an unwieldy fold-out was a listing of shows. If we opened the fold-out all the way, there was a map. To figure out what the numbers on the map meant, we had to flip back and forth to different pages in the brochure. It opened up to over 19" long! This had to be the most uninviting brochure I'd ever seen. Cedar Point is a much larger and more complicated park, and its brochure for this season was far easier to read and use. Great Escape had areas that almost look like a miniature Busch Gardens. The entrance was one of them. A winding cobblestone lined with quaint-looking shops led to a fork and then into Storytown. Karen wanted to stop in some of the shops. We loved getting souvenirs from Great Escape; they were always interesting and specific to the park. The first shop we went into had been converted into a Tweety shop. If you liked the Warner Brothers cartoon character Tweety Bird (licensed to Six Flags), the this was the shop for you. We weren't big Tweety fans, so we walked out. The next shop we entered had more Warner Brothers cartoon character memorabilia on one side and candle paraphernalia on the other. There were some doggie keychains as well. We quickly left that shop. The little alleyway leading down to the Balloon Race and Swan Boat pond also had some shops. They had been converted into a big arcade. I thought that was a smart move, because the only arcade the park had before was in an odd tent that used to function as a 180-degree theater. We walked down the hill toward the Balloon Race. There were a few miniature Storytown buildings there. One was a little white castle and moat with two live swans inside. The swans looked so sad and trapped. There was no vegetation surrounding them, just dirt. A few plants or tall grasses around the perimeter would have made the scene look more natural and inviting. There were two arching bridges spanning the pond. We walked over the left-hand one and headed toward the Swan Boats, one of the oldest rides in the park. The boats have a bank of batteries in them for power. The fiberglass Swans are a large attachment to the back of the boats, which look like oversized canoes. The boats hold about fifteen people each, facing forward, and take a leisurely trip around the L-shaped pond at the back of Storytown. The operator sat on the back of the swan and used an old hand lever to operate the boat There was an unusually long line at the ride, but we queued up anyway, figuring it would move quickly. There were two boats operating. Maintenance crews were tending to a third. As one boat came up to the dock, the ride operator made the usual announcement to keep all hands and legs inside until the boat came to a complete stop at the dock. Well, one older guy didn't listen and decided to keep his hand outside the boat. His little finger got squished as the boat pressed up against its mooring post. But what amazed me about this was how the guy afterward kept angrily talking under his breath with his group, pointing at his finger (which looked fine) and back to the boat as if the park did something wrong. Maybe the attendants should get long yardsticks and whack anyone who doesn't listen to them. Normally, one boat would load and head out as another boat was returning. That process at least kept the line advancing fairly regularly. For some reason, they were loading both boats and sending them both out together. That made the hour-long wait a bit excruciating. Finally, Karen and I boarded and had a pleasant and peaceful ten minute trip. In the past, the attendants would give a verbal tour during the ride. ("If you look over on your right, you'll see the Storytown train...") Our attendant (a foreign exchange worker) was completely silent except for her warnings at the start and end of the ride. The peacefulness was sort of nice, but I left the ride with a sort of empty feeling. The attendants would give the ride a personality when they talked to you throughout. Our ride was, well... just a ride. The spirit was missing. As we reached the far end of the pond we could glimpse the back of what used to be the wildlife show. A trainer used to come out and talk about various animals. It was educational. Instead, some actors in stereotypical western attire were maniacally jumping up and down and running about the stage to loud pre-recorded hillbilly dialogue. We rounded the turn there and headed back for the dock. By that point it was almost noon. We walked back over the bridge and stopped in the nearby Subway for lunch. Karen and I each got a combo meal (sub, chips and a drink) for double the price we'd pay at a normal Subway. We then searched for someplace to sit and eat. The sun was beating down, and the metal chairs and tables placed around the building had no shade. At the tables around Itza Pizzeria, the umbrellas had been removed. We usually would have stopped at there for lunch. They usually served really tasty food. But we'd already eaten pizza a couple of times during the week. So we took a walk over to Coco Loco next to Jungleland. The place was deserted. All the metal cafe tables there had umbrellas, though. So we sat down and quietly ate our subs. The food was okay, probably the cheapest in the park. As we sat there I could hear the distinct rumbling of the Alpine Bobsled coaster. I was astounded; out of our last four visits to the park over the years, the Bobsled had operated just once. We walked across the midway to admire the giant hand-made cedar elephant, another great Charlie Wood acquisition. Next to it was the little house that used to be Goldilocks and the Three Bears. There was a pen attached to it that used to house two brown bears. But the pen was now home to a single sad-looking capybara (the world's largest rodent). It stayed sheltered in its little green box, which was just big enough to hide it. One comment I made to Karen was how even though the park was all asphalt, it didn't feel that way. There were lots of little islands interrupting pedestrian flow to break up the surface and create a more intimate feeling. It's too bad that so many of the islands consisted of little more than mulch and a shrub or two. Colorful plants would have really brightened things up. We had to take a walk through one of our favorite places, Jungleland itself. The giant gorilla above the entrance was silent and immobile and the pygmies were long gone. But I was glad this attraction has survived. The dark twisting entryway had been given a light, which for me took away part of the fun. The first thing we saw when we entered was a hippo's butt, shoved off into a corner. The little waterfall was working. And the water throughout the area was flowing nicely. Vegetation was growing thick everywhere. A bright blue and green dragonfly flew around us and settled on a leaf. We walked over to the infamous suspended bridge. It had been given all new planking, and had been tightened up a bit. It didn't sway nearly as much as in the past. So it was fairly easy to cross. On the other side of the bridge, we walked past what used to be the exit (but was now a dead end). We followed the wooden walkway around, The animatronic elephants were silent. The display with the lioness and her cubs was working, though. She moved her jaw silently up and down and blinked (with no eyelids, which looked odd). I wish more of the displays had been functioning: the cougar hanging from a vine, the "natives" hiding in straw huts, the hunter trapped in a net. I missed the sound of jungle drums that used to fill the area, along with the ridiculous voice that boomed, "Kargamunga con tiki! You like my jungle?" Walking through the area was like seeing an old friend on life support; I knew how vibrant it was in its younger days. I can't imagine that it would take a large investment of money to spruce it up. Instead I fear that eventually it will be replaced with the "Jungle Drop" or some other thrill ride. Jungleland's exit used to come out by a huge wooden idol in an open area. Why not use that open area to put in something like a drop ride, which doesn't take up a lot of real estate? Then Jungleland could be the passage for guests to access the ride. Walking along the edge of the pond we spotted more dragonflies than I've ever seen. Many babies were flitting about the surface of the water. We walked into the miniature church there (with miniature stained glass windows). The giant pink whale was still spouting water, but it's eyes had a very odd paint job (a black ring with a diamond in the center). Jack and Jill lay at the bottom of the hill nearby, immobile. We crossed the big bridge into the Oktoberfest section. A new kettle corn stand was set up there, staffed by the guy who used to make kettle corn at Six Flags New England. There was a wonderful island with an eagle statue surrounded by colorful flowers. Karen wanted to stop in to the Mad Hatter (near Alice in Wonderland) to check out their clothing. We had gotten some really nice shirts and hats there before. As we approached the entrance there were five employees standing there talking, blocking the doorway. Two of them appeared to be supervisors (wearing different shirts). We stood there, assuming they'd move out of the way. But they continued talking as if we weren't even there. Karen and I stood there for a minute or so, unacknowledged. She spotted a side entrance, and we went in that way. There was only one other person in the shop besides the cashier. There were some generic shirts with Looney Tunes characters on them. Tucked in a corner were some hats that had "Great Escape" blandly embroidered. We walked out. I could hear the roar of the nearby Bobsled, so we headed in that direction. The entrance was well- designed but difficult to find toward the back of the ride. The queue line wound through the center of the ride and has aged well. The pine trees have filled out nicely. Karen passed on riding this. The line wasn't too long and all four bobsleds were running. I queued up for the back seat of the Swiss sled. Getting into those "trains" felt awkward. The seat was almost at the level of the floor, so my knees were bent up to my chin. The thick lap bar gave me plenty of breathing room. The ride attendant sounded a bit deranged. He had thick black hair, a mustache and dark glasses and loudly would address the guests over the PA system. "You been on this ride before? You like it? Well have a great time!" He reminded me of some old carnies I've known. It wasn't anything offensive; it just seemed odd because all the other attendants in the park seemed so detached. The lift hill was fast and smooth. The train turned right at the top of the lift and swung into the huge metal trough, dropping suddenly and sending me out of my seat. Air time on a bobsled! We whipped around a corner and flew into the first check brake. The car collided with the guide rails and my body was thrown to the left like a rag doll. If Karen had been sitting next to me, our heads would have collided. I grabbed onto the car's padded side bars for support. We plunged down and to the left, and again I came out of my seat. We rose up into the next check brake. The process continued two more times until we reached the final brakes. I was amazed by the air time. But overall I think Avalanche at King's Dominion was a far superior bobsled ride. The Intamin version at Great Escape never really got going. There were too many check brakes to stop the momentum. The rhythm was drop-turn-brake all the way to the end. With Mack's Avalanche, there was no air time but much more of a feeling of really riding in a bobsled, blasting around corners and rolling up to the sides of the trough. By then the Comet was calling to us, so we made our way to the very back of the park. We crossed the bridge over Splashwater Kingdom (which was pretty crowded) and the Comet's spectacular profile came into view. Karen said that it's the most visually stunning coaster she's ever seen, and I agree. When I look at it, though, I can still see the legendary Crystal Beach Cyclone. And I find that really thrilling. The station is still there. The original bolt holes one the structure are still there. The helix structure is there. It's amazing to ponder what was. The station was filled, but there was no line. The park was running two trains. Within ten minutes, we were sitting in the front seat of the blue train. The path of the trains' wheels on the track had left a path so shiny it was like a mirror strip. There didn't appear to be any fresh oil on the track, but as we glided out of the station (with the same pre-recorded message I've heard for so many years: "Have a great ride on the Comet!") the train's movement was so quiet. There was no squeaking or thumping. It was like we were gliding across the surface. The train engaged the chain smoothly, and up we went. In its inimitable style, the Comet's chain sped up dramatically as we crested the hill and it threw us down the wonderful first drop. We hit the bottom of the hill and the train jackhammered severely, sending a jolt up my spine. We flew over the little speed bump and charged up the first turnaround. The train didn't seem to lose any speed and dove down the steep drop, hopped over a small hill sending us into our lap bars, then bounded over the terrific third hill and then up to the second turnaround, taken at high speed. The hidden double-down was terrific, the following bunny hops were powerful, the last turnaround was frightening and the run back to the station was breathtaking. We hit the brakes hard in the air, with the side friction wheels madly spinning in place. At nearly sixty years young, the Comet still had what it takes. Unfortunately, my back wasn't too happy. That first drop was the only bad piece of trackage on the ride, but it was a killer and really dampened my enjoyment for the rest of the ride. I noticed a few places where track had been replaced. I couldn't see if the first drop was one of them. Many of you may recall that when the ride was re-erected at Great Escape, Wood hired the best coaster trackers in the business, Martin and Vleminczx, to handle the work. And they did so spectacularly, using Douglas fir. Much of the ride appears to still have the original Douglas fir track. But the new replacement track I saw looked like southern yellow pine. That would be a mistake. Sure, that wood is much cheaper. But it also wears much more quickly. If this is a cost-cutting trend the park is initiating, then in a couple of years the Comet is going to ride like so many other Six Flags wood coasters (in other words, like crap). The next thing the park will do to save on maintenance is slow down the chain. Then a brake will be placed on the first drop and trim brakes will be placed on the turnarounds. And the beast will have been tamed, its teeth pulled. And everyone will wonder why this coaster was ever regarded so highly. I hope that scenario is simply a product of my paranoid mind working overtime. Last year the Comet was running the best it ever had since Six Flags took ownership. I hope the trend isn't reversing. Something else that bothered me the more I thought about it was an anniversary that wasn't being acknowledged, let alone celebrated. There were little signs here and there mentioning that Great Escape was a half-century old. But no one was mentioning that this year marked the Comet's tenth anniversary of being relocated. It still ranks as one of the most courageous and well-executed coaster preservation acts. But no one at the park seemed to care. *sigh* Happy anniversary, Comet, old friend. We were going to ride the ferris wheel, but it was down. I stood at the Raging Rapids observation deck and noticed that the big waterfalls that once poured over the massive artificial rock outcroppings were shut down. They used to be not only visually stunning but a really fun part of the ride. One of the delights I always looked forward to in the Oktoberfest area was a stop at the Funnel Cake stand. They were so delicious. But I just can't eat them anymore; it's too much for my stomach. So instead I decided to get a waffle cone there. While we were in line, I noticed they offered a new treat: deep fried cheesecake (for $3.50). My arteries clogged just thinking about it. The ice cream was rich and tasty. Since I had my treat, Karen went nearby to get her favorite treat -- kettle corn. The guy who runs it was very chatty and friendly. His wife was running the Bavarian nut stand. He said she'd been working at Great Escape for a while, and he wanted to be closer to her. So he left Six Flags New England. I told him how much we enjoy his kettle corn; no other park made it so tasty. He said his secret was that he never made batches when it was raining or when the humidity was high. The dampness would get absorbed into the popcorn before the sugar could. Well however he makes it, it's delicious. Karen suggested going for a spin on the Sky Ride since we were right there. We went over to the purple building that had a distinctly Moroccan look to it. I believe it was made by Hopkins. The fiberglass bubble seats with the fiberglass awnings were painted in many pastel shades. The trip wasn't particularly long, going from the Oktoberfest hillside to the Storytown hillside and back again. But it was taken at a nice slow pace and was quite relaxing, offering splendid views of the area. I really liked the landscaping at the front of the fiberglass carousel, which looks really whimsical from the air. We had a bird's-eye view of the diving show in progress. It featured yet more pre-recorded dialogue as swimmers jumped all over the place. Then an MC stepped up with a microphone and went into a routine that's been done a hundred times before: an irate audience member harassed the MC, who then invited the "audience member" (in reality one of the divers) up to the pool. The diver clowned around and then did a jump into the pool. Then all the other divers appeared and started jumping into the pool. Yeehaw. It wasn't something I'd bother watching, but the general public seemed to really enjoy it. We then made the long hike to the west end of the park, through Storytown. Cinderella's horse-drawn pumpkin coach was making its trips around her big white castle. I think that's a really special ride. Little kids can sit in the coach with a "real" Cinderella, and she just talks with them as the horse clip- clops along. I'll bet for many kids, that would be the most memorable part of their day. Next to Cinderella's castle used to be a fake miniature railway coming out of a fake tunnel. That was replaced by a "Mother Goose" ride, which I though fit well into the area. The goose ride was closed, but still there. On top of it was a huge gold cake with 50 stuck onto it. I guess that was an appropriate location for it, since the park began as Storytown. But there was a large open area at Storytown's entrance and the cake would have been better displayed there. Or even on the high hill overlooking the area, where the home of the Old Lady Who Lives in a Shoe is. As it was, the cake was sort of hidden away, as if they were ashamed that the park was 50 years old. We walked up the steep hill toward the imposing structure of the Canyon Blaster mine train in the Ghost Town section. I kept watching for a train to go by. I waited and waited... and then it appeared, completely silently except for the screams of the passengers. The only noise from the train was a roar as it barreled through the last part of the big helix. We didn't bother riding it. The ride was about a minute long, and most of that was spent on the two lift hills. Next to the top of the hill was Boot Hill, a fake cemetery that used to have two giant boots buried in the sand. Various tombstones with silly epitaphs were scattered about. One looked new, and I'm wondering if it was installed as a political statement. It read, "J.K. -- His Time Has Come." Karen looked into the Western Shop. Everything was generic western toys and clothes. At least it wasn't all Looney Tunes again. We queued up for the Poland Springs Plunge log flume. This had the longest line of any ride that day. At the beginning of the queue line they were selling -- you guessed it -- Poland Springs water at $2.50 a bottle. The giant water wheel out front was turning, splashing into an absolutely filthy pond below. I looked sadly at the remains of the old Ghost Town train tracks. That was one of our favorite rides in the park, a long trip over to the extreme north end through a dark tunnel filled with animatronics. As we waited in line, a large tractor drove through the dirt on the other side of the loading area. It had a log attached to a fork in front of it. The tractor drove over to the holding pond behind the ride's exit and gently deposited the boat into the water. Then the tractor drove out the way it came in. This process continued the whole time we at the ride. Behind the flume used to be a high grassy hill with a solitary realistic-looking moose standing in the distance, partially hidden in the trees. Now it was a mound of dirt with some weeds popping out of it. Behind it was the gigantic metal building housing Nightmare at Crackaxle Canyon, the indoor Schwartzkopf Jet Star coaster. The front of the building looked nice, with some skillful airbrushing attempting to disguise it. But the sides were flat green. To think the park moved a mountain to basically plunk down a giant warehouse. I wish they had at least made a better attempt to fit such a huge structure into the Ghost Town theming. After about fifteen minutes we sat in a log with Karen in front. I was glad they didn't force more people in with us. We drifted out into the trough. Below and to the right was the first lift of the Canyon Blaster. To the left was an ugly metal building. We were pulled up the first short lift hill and deposited into a freshly-painted trough about thirty feet above the ground. As we floated along, we had a clear view of the ugly maintenance area to the right and an ugly metal building to our left. The area on the right used to be a corral where horses grazed and where the train used to make its return trip. A row of tall building facades had been a wonderful old western backdrop for the train ride. Each building looked realistic, with curtains in the windows and signs like "Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, Attorneys at Law." Now the buildings were falling apart, with broken windows and collapsing facades. The signs had long been removed. Behind the facades we could see piles of junk. Our log engaged the second bigger lift hill. The parking lot was to our right and an ugly metal building was to our left. Although we were now quite high up, the Arrow flume was intelligently designed to take advantage of the terrain. We had climbed up a hill, so we were now really only about eight feet off the ground. We drifted to the right and into a large wooden shack. There used to be voices playing and sounds of machinery, but all was silent. On the left were groups of animatronic figures sawing wood and working machinery. The trough turned left and headed toward the light. Above us, spinning wildly, was a mannequin in lumberjack attire tied up to a log. The trough dipped and we plunged down the hill and into the water -- and didn't get wet. Some coin-operated new water cannons had been installed near the bottom of the drop, but the streams of water missed us. We walked out of Ghost Town through the old tunnel, which was spattered with gum. Someone had punched a hole through the tunnel at one point. Right near the tunnel's entrance were the two "windows" that looked out under the waterfall. That was such a great idea. It really helps give the feeling that the cave-like structure is real. We walked around the corner and peered into the many little buildings winding their way up the hill. The structures were so well-built. They really are just miniature versions of real establishments, like the church or the saloon. Even the interiors have wonderful detailing. After climbing up to the top of the hill, we stood at the house of the Old Woman in the Shoe. The little slide that used to be attached to it was taken out. Without that fun distraction, there was really no reason for any child to want to climb the long hill. There always used to be a line of children waiting to slide down. Now we were the only people standing there. I loved the stone fence with the little heart- shaped metal railing. It was such a pretty scene and was obviously a labor of love fifty years ago. Now it was ignored. It seemed like if they really wanted to pay homage to the park's 50th anniversary, they would have spruced up all of the attractions that make the park historic. But maybe part of their problem is being owned by a huge company that's struggling financially; there's no money for "sprucing up." Karen and I felt drained. We walked down the hill toward the entrance and headed for the exit's gift shop. I had hoped to take a picture of the unique iron warthog sculpture at the entrance, but camp kids were climbing all over it. The cleverly named Exit Shop used to have lots of really nice T-shirts, magnets, cups -- all sorts of Great Escape souvenirs. We were hoping to pick some up. But we should have known better. To our left as we entered was a wall of Superman memorabilia. Then more Looney Tunes things. There was a collection of T-shirts with "Trailer Park" inexplicably written across them. There were shirts with lots of insulting slogans. There were some uninteresting "Canyon Blaster" shirts. There was just one of the Comet, and I already owned two of them. Mugs and cups were stuck at the back wall of the shop. They were all the same Comet design that I'd purchased the previous year. The sense I got was that most of the "unique" souvenirs were simply things that didn't sell the previous year and were being phased out. It wasn't as if they were proudly trying to show off the unique items; they were hiding them. Karen wanted to send our daughters some postcards of the Comet, but there were none to be found. The park's star ride didn't even have a postcard. Not even for its tenth anniversary. Maybe they were being printed.... So we left the park empty-handed and a bit disheartened. I don't think that's how Charlie Wood would have liked us to feel. But he doesn't own the park anymore. This is a different era. Maybe the general public doesn't care about unique souvenirs. Maybe they don't care about ugly metal buildings. Maybe they don't care about jackhammering on a coaster. Maybe they don't care about waterfalls not working. But I think a good park owner should assume that they do care. Because that attitude always makes a park better. Karen and I want to return again this season -- not because we had a good time, but because it was free. And because deep in my heart I hold out a hope that the park will magically return to the Great Escape I remember. It's a foolish hope, I know. But aren't old memories all part of the amusement park experience? Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From coastersbysteve@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 18:53:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: coastersbysteve@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14966 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 01:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 01:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 01:53:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.252] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 01:53:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 01:53:05 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 683 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "Steve" X-Originating-IP: 24.3.208.130 Subject: Blue Streak Challenge IV X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100034830 X-Yahoo-Profile: coastersbysteve Hi, Everyone; Well, it's that time of year again... Time for the 4th. Annual Blue Streak Challenge. Once again Lisa Corbly will be riding the Conneaut Lake Blue Streak roller coaster for twelve straight hours in order to raise money for it's upkeep. This year there is a goal of $10,000.00, which goes directly to the Blue Streak She will sincerely appreciate any and all pledges. All donated money will go directly into a special fund set up for maintenance of the coaster. Simply e-mail her at: coasterbooks@comcast.net with your pledge amount & your mailing address, and She will send you a SASE in which to mail your check. Thank you all in advance.. Steve From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 19:06:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56975 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 02:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 02:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp015.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.59) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 02:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp015.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 02:06:28 -0000 To: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:06:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.173.59 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy "actually, this brings up something ive been thinking about; since it was before my time as a coaster geek, and while ive heard many people refer to it, its never discussed in detail, so...what exactly was The Bat? what did it look like? did anyone here every ride it? what was so wrong with it?" http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/coasters/history/1980_1990/80s.shtml The Bat featured cars shaped like bats, suspended below the track. They flew around the 2,456-foot circuit and the coaster utilized two lift hills, each almost 100-feet high. But the ride was plagued with many problems that remained with it until it was dismantled after it stood without operating for the 1984 season. The Bat closed for a number of reasons, but low ridership was not one of them. It reportedly gave an amazing ride that threw riders around the un-banked turns, some of which were near-vertical on hot days. The wicked curves were part of the Bat's problems, as the shock absorbers could not handle the severe pressure placed upon them. Some reports say that they had to be replaced on a weekly basis because they wore down so quickly. Another problem was that Arrow did not change the location of the brake fins from their sit-down coasters. They had always been located on the bottom of their coaster trains, but on the suspended coaster the wheel assemblies had been moved to the track above the car, while the fins remained on the bottom. This caused a lot of wear and tear on the brake fins (and the wheel assemblies) as the fins were awkwardly grabbed by the brake mechanism below and the car lurched to a stop. The Bat was taken down during the 1984 season not because of death, as so many rumors still state, but because it was a bad design and was costing the park too much in upkeep. Small hints of the Bat can still be seen at King's Island. The Vortex, one of Arrow's first mega-loopers, was built on the site in 1987. There are still some concrete footers on the site were not removed. Also, some of the access stairs to the brake run & lift were from the Bat and the station has changed very little since the Vortex was built. *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 19:49:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91002 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 02:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 02:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 02:49:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.134] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 02:47:46 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 02:47:45 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <050c01c46501$12870df0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 998 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > Mack actually made a brand new bobsled just a couple of years ago for > Parc Asterix in France. I found the Mack bobsled I rode at PKD very > enjoyable... but I also kind of liked the Intamin one at Cedar Point > (Disaster > Transport). I don't know why so many people seem to hate that one, > the cars with side by side seating are so much better than the inline > seating > used on the SFMM/SFOT version. Plus either it is more unbraked or you > just don't notice it because of the darkness... I've been on 6 of the 10 bobs in operation. DT, is OK, but Trace du Hourra at Parc Asterix was great. It's the second longest bob ever made, and that helps so much, as so many of these are 45-60 second rides, not counting lift hills. The one at Heide-park is longer, and is my second favorite bob. The extra 1000 feet really improves the pacing and increases the speeds and thus the height up the walls. Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 19:53:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13454 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 02:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 02:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 02:53:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.139] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 02:53:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 02:53:06 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040708.112950.-1942819.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 371 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Xcoaster@j... wrote: > Oh, BTW, the random roller coaster that came up for me on rcdb today was > a scenic railway: > > http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1054.htm?Picture=19 > Ryan Snooks > Xcoaster@j... And I kick myself regularly for never making it to any Austrian parks while living in Italy for two years! Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 20:32:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58030 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 03:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 03:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 03:32:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.158] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 03:32:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 03:32:30 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200407081801.AA1654325540@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1204 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: Great Escape, 7-7-04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Ducharme" wrote: > New York's Great Escape has long been one of our favorite parks. > So we left the park empty-handed and a bit disheartened. I don't think that's how Charlie Wood would > have liked us to feel. But he doesn't own the park anymore. This is a different era. Maybe the general > public doesn't care about unique souvenirs. Maybe they don't care about ugly metal buildings. > Maybe they don't care about jackhammering on a coaster. Maybe they don't care about waterfalls not > working. But I think a good park owner should assume that they do care. Because that attitude > always makes a park better. > > Karen and I want to return again this season -- not because we had a good time, but because it was > free. And because deep in my heart I hold out a hope that the park will magically return to the Great > Escape I remember. It's a foolish hope, I know. But aren't old memories all part of the amusement > park experience? > > Jay Wow. It sounds like Six Flags tore the heart out of that place. I'm glad the parent is having problems. Maybe someone will rescue The Great Escape... Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 20:42:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80394 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 03:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 03:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 03:42:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.142] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 03:42:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 03:42:02 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 745 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sandy" wrote: > Small hints of the Bat can still be seen at King's Island. The Vortex, one > of Arrow's first mega-loopers, was built on the site in 1987. There are > still some concrete footers on the site were not removed. Also, some of the > access stairs to the brake run & lift were from the Bat and the station has > changed very little since the Vortex was built. > > *************** > Adam Sandy This reminded me of something I've always wondered about, but never remember to ask: Under and around Ninja at 6FMM, are some form of tracks, what appears to be a station or carousel house, etc. Was this all part of one ride? What was it? Anybody remember? Chris B From lance@screamscape.com Thu Jul 08 20:47:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77141 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 03:47:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 03:47:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 03:47:50 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i693loPL060726 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 20:47:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 43449 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 03:47:49 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 03:47:49 -0000 Message-ID: <006d01c46567$8937f840$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:48:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > This reminded me of something I've always wondered about, but never > remember to ask: > Under and around Ninja at 6FMM, are some form of tracks, what appears > to be a station or carousel house, etc. Was this all part of one > ride? What was it? Anybody remember? This was the old Dragon ride... it was basiclly a cable car system like the ones used in San Francisco but on a small scale, that pulled little oriental themed dragon shaped cars from the bottom of the mountain to the top. The actual station for Ninja used to be the top station and the bottom station is actually that small round building right next to Ninja's train shed at the bottom of the final lift hill. You can see a couple of photos of it still in action at the "WOW! It's Magic Mountain" website's Old Ride page... Look at the bottom of this page... http://members.tripod.com/heylownine/oldride.htm From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 08 21:22:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81914 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 04:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 04:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 04:22:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 04:21:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 04:21:46 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006d01c46567$8937f840$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1474 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > > This reminded me of something I've always wondered about, but never > > remember to ask: > > Under and around Ninja at 6FMM, are some form of tracks, what appears > > to be a station or carousel house, etc. Was this all part of one > > ride? What was it? Anybody remember? > > > This was the old Dragon ride... it was basiclly a cable car system like the > ones > used in San Francisco but on a small scale, that pulled little oriental > themed > dragon shaped cars from the bottom of the mountain to the top. > > The actual station for Ninja used to be the top station and the bottom > station is > actually that small round building right next to Ninja's train shed at the > bottom > of the final lift hill. > > You can see a couple of photos of it still in action at the > "WOW! It's Magic Mountain" website's Old Ride page... > Look at the bottom of this page... > http://members.tripod.com/heylownine/oldride.htm I always thought that Ninja's station seemed odd, and it does sort of resemble the shell at the bottom, now that you mention it. MM sure did have a truckload of transportation rides once! Thanks for the info, I always hoped it wasn't some cool coaster ride that was scrapped for Ninja, even though Ninja is one of the best suspended's out there. PCW's Vortex kicks butt, and BGW's BBW still has one of the best drops of any type of coaster anywhere. Chris B From CoasterDainan@aol.com Fri Jul 09 08:15:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: CoasterDainan@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54003 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 15:15:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 15:15:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 15:15:21 -0000 Received: from CoasterDainan@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.6d.2de4ca8b (16335) for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d.2de4ca8b.2e20107e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:15:10 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.207 From: CoasterDainan@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Great Escape, 7-7-04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77685570 X-Yahoo-Profile: mamarose1129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Smart for skipping the Arrows and the Vekoma! I'm going up to Lake George at the end of this month so, we are going to spend a lot of time at The Great Escape (again). Did you ever notice the Disney stuff in the gift shop, at the exit to the parking lot. I love the Jungle land too. And some of the stuff was working, but that was last year. The week we were there, the Bobsled was closed the whole week! They tested it one day, but that was it. I was excited to get on my first bobsled coaster too. People kept saying different things, one was, that it was closed all year, other was, it was running last week, stuff like that. You made me more excited to go, thanks! -Dainan, webspawner.com/users/coasterdainan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aelk2004@yahoo.com Fri Jul 09 10:08:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95210 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 17:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 17:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 17:08:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 17:08:09 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 17:08:08 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1008 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: NEWS: Exhibit traces history of amusement shows X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 Here's something fun to do in S.F. -Alan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Exhibit traces history of amusement shows 7-7-04 A new exhibit to be launched Aug. 5 by the San Francisco Museum & Historical Society will be dedicated to amusement parks and attractions. The free, two-year show will combine colorful murals, interactive displays and memorabilia and will be located in Fisherman's Wharf on Pier 45. Amusing America will be interactive, designed to educate and entertain audiences of all ages. It will explore the technologies and origins of amusement park icons such as the carousel, the roller coaster, the Ferris wheel and even the ice cream cone. The exhibit will be co-presented by the San Francisco Public Library and supported in part by the U.S. Institute of Museum and Library Services. The San Francisco History Center of the Public Library is creating an accompanying online exhibition (www.sfpl.org) as well as a curriculum guide for California schoolchildren. Written by: Katie Millbauer From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 09 10:26:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59641 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 17:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 17:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 17:26:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24168 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2004 17:26:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20040709172651.24167.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 12:26:51 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "aelk2004" at Jul 09, 2004 05:08:08 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Exhibit traces history of amusement shows X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Thanks for the link Alan, Do you know if this is a permanent thing, or will it just be around for a limited time? Cam. > > Here's something fun to do in S.F. > -Alan > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Exhibit traces history of amusement shows > 7-7-04 > > A new exhibit to be launched Aug. 5 by the San Francisco Museum & > Historical Society will be dedicated to amusement parks and > attractions. > > The free, two-year show will combine colorful murals, interactive > displays and memorabilia and will be located in Fisherman's Wharf on > Pier 45. > > Amusing America will be interactive, designed to educate and > entertain audiences of all ages. It will explore the technologies and > origins of amusement park icons such as the carousel, the roller > coaster, the Ferris wheel and even the ice cream cone. > > The exhibit will be co-presented by the San Francisco Public Library > and supported in part by the U.S. Institute of Museum and Library > Services. > > The San Francisco History Center of the Public Library is creating an > accompanying online exhibition (www.sfpl.org) as well as a curriculum > guide for California schoolchildren. > > Written by: Katie Millbauer > > > > > Don't forget our group sites at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RollerCoasterTalk and http://www.geocities.com/RollerCoasterTalk > bookmarks, files, chatroom, and more are all found there. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- Cameron Silver: ** Sandour 21 * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Sandour 22 * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Fri Jul 09 12:21:13 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23728 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 19:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 19:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 19:21:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 19:21:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 19:21:12 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1384 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "munkye1972" wrote: > This reminded me of something I've always wondered about, but never > remember to ask: > Under and around Ninja at 6FMM, are some form of tracks, what appears > to be a station or carousel house, etc. Was this all part of one > ride? What was it? Anybody remember? This sounds like a thing called the Dragon that was a very slow way to get up the hill. Somebody else has noted that back in the old days, Magic Mountain (this was pre-Six Flags) had a lot of rides that took you places around the park but not much to do once you got there. This was basically a car that went back and forth in a straight line between the area behind the Spin Out and up on the hill near what would later be the Ninja. The car was themed like a dragon. I don't remember seeing any remnants of it the last time I was there, but I wasn't looking. The other defunct ride up there is the Eagle, a skyride that went between where the Superman Station is now and the far end of where Superman is now. The Dragon closed in 1981, and I remember going on it once or twice as a kid. This was back when the only roller coasters at MM were the Gold Rusher, Revolution (no OTS restraints), Colossus, and the long- gone Mountain Express, a Wildcat-type steel coaster. Located where Hurricane Harbor is now. Adam From aelk2004@yahoo.com Fri Jul 09 12:50:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18962 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 19:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 19:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 19:50:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 19:50:18 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 19:50:17 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 902 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.86 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "adamnvillani" wrote: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Xcoaster@j... wrote: > SNIP > > Another related question on RCT vs. the real world: what exactly are > the real-world analogues of the "Vertical" coaster type in the game > and the "Air-Powered" type, the one with the weird track layout > limitations? I'd think that Excelerator and TTD would be > the "Vertical" type, except for the weird car designs they've got in > the game. Are there vertical coasters out there that have cars > resembling the ones in the game? How about Inverted Wild Mouse? > Where could one of those be found? The "Vertical" coaster is like Obivion at Alton Towers http://rcdb.com/installationgallery777.htm?Picture=9 And the "Air-Powered" is supposed to be like S&S's Thrust Air 2000 http://www.arrowdynamics.com/coaster.html -Alan From aelk2004@yahoo.com Fri Jul 09 14:26:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13898 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 21:26:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 21:26:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 21:26:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.119] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 21:25:49 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:25:47 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040709172651.24167.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 223 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: NEWS: Exhibit traces history of amusement shows X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, cameron@b... wrote: > > Thanks for the link Alan, > > Do you know if this is a permanent thing, or will it just be around > for a limited time? > > Cam. Just for 2 years. -Alan From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 09 14:40:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42641 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 21:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 21:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 21:40:48 -0000 Received: from 0-2pool74-117.nas8.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.133.74.117] helo=Laptop) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bj36q-0006V9-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:40:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:40:23 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <74b0c9f304070707522aa9c520@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304070707522aa9c520@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.120 From: George Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:52:16 -0400, Beth Aslakson wrote: > Due to the rain, and the big festival in downtown St. Louis and the > holiday weekend... Hmmm.. I seem to recall some skepticism about going > to a park on the Saturday before the 4th. I also seem to recall > predicting that there wouldn't be crowds. Thankfully you were right there. Now if only that had been true later on. Dollywood, and especially SFoG later on were absolutely packed- and on weekdays to boot! You'll see what I mean when I get the TR's for those done later on. I'm about halfway through the Dollywood one now. >> Next up was the Boss- > That Mean Streak riding position has saved my back several times, and > this was definitely a coaster that warranted it. Now if I could only > figure out how to ride an SLC without it inducing whiplash and a > headache... > Scary thing it, David really liked The Boss. But then he hasn't figured out that smashing you around isn't a required part of a wood coaster and actually likes that somewhat. *shrug* Oh, I also might have found a position that works on the SLC. At least at Wild Adventures. Next time, try putting your head back in the back left corner of the seat/ restraint, and brace it in that little pocket area. I don't think mine moved once like that, and it made it quite a fun ride. > >> While the kids, Dave, and Jon went on the rapids, Beth and I tried to >> do a >> bit of shopping and do a magnet exchange, since she had bought some for >> me >> at other parks that I had missed them at in the past. While doing so, we >> found one problem that has become a frustration for me on this trip- >> souveniers. The park had a lot of generic Six Flags merchandise, and had >> some souveniers for the city of St. Louis, but trying to find something >> that said Six Flags St. Louis, or even Mid America, was very difficult. > I didn't have real high expectations for the gift shops this year as I > suspected early on that they were heading towards generic chain wide > stuff to cut costs. I would be less disappointed if it were consistant > across the chain though. If none of the parks sold park specific > stuff, I wouldn't be thrilled with it but at least it would be > consistant. They managed to figure out how to have identical > merchandise that is still labeled with different park names on some > items, but not others. And some parks have a ton of park specific > merchandise and some have none. I can add this- SFoG had plenty of park specific merchandise. We didn't have any problem finding stuff there- even when I had absolutely no desire to look after my cell phone was stolen at the end of the day. Which reminds me- if you have my cell phone number, please give me a call after Tuesday so I can readd you to my phone when I get the new one. :) >> We also split into groups of 3 for the Scooby Blasters, > > You did a wonderful job outscoring against a child and a girl :P > It was 45,750 to my 24,000. Between the two of us in the boat, poor > Joseph barely got in any shots. Heh, sorry but being a girl isn't an excuse. Back when I used to play laser tag a bunch, 4 of the top 10 players at the place I went to often were girls- including one around 11 years old. But yeah, Joseph needs to learn how to shoot a gun. :) > I don't know that quirky is the right word. Quirky can still be > charming, and it was at least a step or two below that. The layout was > odd and a little frustrating, there were a couple decent coasters and > several mediocre or bad ones. As much as Jon talked down the park, > there were still some nice areas. It shows potential, and I'm curious > as to how much worse it was before this year's improvements started > inching in. > Well, if it's any comfort, Dave and I were trying to work out the top parks of the 10 that we visited on the trip, and SFStL didn't even make it into the top 5. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad park, but there were some outstanding ones that we got to visit. > I'll write my TR from Memphis soon. Libertyland was a decent little > park and I think you're kids would have had fun there. But at least > you weren't the ones who shelled out the cash to get in only to have > the park close on you shortly after. Something tells me we wouldn't > ever hear the end of that *cough* Cedar Point *cough* ;) Hey, now I haven't complained about that in, oh, a whole week or two! :P JK > > Ok, I'm picking on Geroge a little too much now ... Yeah, you really are. Especially on the spelling of my name. hehe > > It was a fun day, and I was glad to meet up with some people while I > was on this trip. By the time I got to St. Louis I was getting a > little sick of spending so much time by myself. So thanks for meeting > up with us in St. Louis, Jon. And I hope the rest of your trip and > your move goes well, George. Rest of the trip went great. We arrived at the apartment early this afternoon, and now it's unloading, getting caught up and ready for the movers to arrive on Monday, and getting the rest of my TR's done. Wheeeeeeee But yes, it was a great time and I was very happy to get to meet up with you two again! Thanks for putting up with us. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 09 14:42:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46651 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 21:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 21:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 21:42:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 26755 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2004 21:42:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20040709214209.26754.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 16:42:09 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "aelk2004" at Jul 09, 2004 09:25:47 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: NEWS: Exhibit traces history of amusement shows X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > Do you know if this is a permanent thing, or will it just be around > > for a limited time? > > Just for 2 years. Oh .. that's good. I wasn't sure if it was just a "for the summer" thing. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Sandour 21 * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Sandour 22 * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 09 14:43:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71956 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 21:43:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 21:43:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 21:43:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 26780 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2004 21:43:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20040709214310.26779.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 16:43:10 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "George" at Jul 09, 2004 02:40:23 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > done later on. I'm about halfway through the Dollywood one now. What did you think of Thunderhead?!! Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Sandour 21 * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Sandour 22 * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From bethtoons@gmail.com Fri Jul 09 15:17:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80272 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 22:17:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 22:17:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.244) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 22:17:21 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so110867cwc for ; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.74 with SMTP id v74mr674771cwb; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f3040709151712e7da2a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:17:13 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.244 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: TR: Branson Parks (SDC & CC) 06/29/2004 & 06/30/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons From Kansas City, I headed to Branson. I had nearly 2 full days in Branson, and I filled them both. I bought the park hopper pass, and spent about 4 hours the first day at Silver Dollar City, and from open to close (2-10pm) at Celebration City. I spent another 7 hours at Silver Dollar City the second day before making the drive to Arkansas. 06/29/2004 - SDC & CC I limited my time at SDC on day one because I planned to return the next day. I was thoroughly impressed with this park and could have spent another day or two here had I not had other destinations set for the next few days. I would put the park at a comparable level to the Busch Parks as it felt like a very similar atmosphere. There aren't a lot of rides, but the ones that exist are spaced out, themed well, and placed in scenic areas. The park puts much more focus on craftsmen and shows. I spent the few hours on the first day just getting a feel for the park and riding things as I found them. Trees. There were a ton of trees; to the point that even on a sunny day I really didn't need my sunglasses inside the park there was so much shade. I stood in a lengthy line to get my park hopped, wandered in through the several gift shops at the entrance and finally found my way into the actual park. I pocketed the map and spent a while getting myself turned around trying to find Wildfire before I found some signs pointing me in the right direction. Wildfire sits behind the log flume, and the coaster is sort of build into a hillside/valley location at the back edge of the park. The station, and adjacent viewing platform/gift shop area sit at about eye-level with the middle of the cobra roll and afford a beautiful view of hills and small lakes beyond the coaster. Because of its location, and viewing platform, I took a ton of pics of this coaster. I really didn't take a lot of photos inside this park though. The ride was a shorter layout, and had a unique combo of elements. Sitting in it for my first ride, I realized I'd not ridden many B&M's yet this year. The first drop was one of the best I've encountered on a B&M looper, and the inversions were basically just as George described them when he TR'd this park earlier. It was great fun, and a really nice coaster for this park. I wandered some more, ducked into some of the shops, and found my way to the other side of the park around lunchtime. Thunderation was down temporarily, so I grabbed some lunch, which was a large bowl of succotash (chicken & veggies) and a beverage and found an out-of-the way picnic table. As I was eating, the kids' fest circus parade came through the area. What I could see of it through the trees looked cute, and obviously aimed at kids. In addition to it being a "show" in the park, they also allow families to meet at the starting point and participate in the parade, so there was a stream of kids intermingled in the parade carrying large puppets, or balloons or dancing with the clowns or other performers. I'm sure that for many of the kids involved, the parade was a highlight of their visit. Thunderation hadn't opened back up yet, so I caught the next train ride. It's still early and I feel like I've ridden a ton of trains this year. Of all the show trains I've ridden this year, this one's skit was done the best. I could tell that either there are very few gags that can be scripted into these skits, or Silverwood took a few bits of theirs verbatim from Silver Dollar City's. It was cheesy and a lot of fun. Once the train returned to the station, I headed over to Thunderation. My ride on this the first day was in one of the backwards cars. It was interesting backwards, but I much preferred my forward-facing ride the next day. This mine train sits within enough trees that the majority of the layout isn't visible from the station. It also sits in a bit of a valley, which helps obstruct it from view even more. The helices and tunnels in the first half were exciting for a mine train, and the drop at the end was fast and well done. For an Arrow mine train, it was one of the better ones I've ridden. After Thunderation, I did some quick gift shop shopping and headed out to the car to make my way over to Celebration City for the remainder of the day. It was hard to pull myself out of this park, but I'm glad I did. For some reason, from reports I'd read from these parks, I was under the impression that they sat adjacent to one another or very near one another. This isn't the case at all, as there is about a 10-minute drive between the two parks. Celebration City sits in another Valley (one of the roads down to it is at a fairly steep grade (I think it was 15%, but the other number in my head is 9%... it was one or the other), fun riding down but my car barely made it back up when I left the park). I arrived at the park a few minutes before opening, and lined up to enter. There was hardly anyone in the park in comparison to the mobs of people I encountered entering SDC in the morning. The crowds really didn't start to pick up until much later, as I suspect many people did the opposite of me and spent the bulk of the day at SDC and a couple hours in the evening at CC. Once they began admitting people, I made my way in and found my way back to the Ozark Wildcat. While Silver Dollar City is themed to the past, Celebration City looks more like an "amusement park" and has something of a 50's feel to it but with more modern rides. Despite being behind several people at the park entrance, many of whom I overheard as being headed here first, I was the first person in the station and the only one on the train for it's first dispatch of the day. I loved this coaster and I'm envious of those of you who have or will make it to Dollywood this year since I won't. Even at the start of the operating day, it was flying, and it just improved from there. I got in about 5 rides first thing as only two or three more people would make it into the station before the next go around, so the ops let us stay on. Once the first big group of people made it back there, we had to walk around. It's definitely a twister, but there are still plenty of air hills. I can't recall the layout to describe it, but I did get the feel of it after several rides and could anticipate where I would encounter the lats and air. Once I'd wandered the rest of the park, I spent a good portion of the evening here. After those first 5 rides, I made my way around the rest of the park, stopping first to ride the Ferris wheel before heading to the other two coasters in the park. Their windstorm is called Thunderbolt and was running comprable to the others I've ridden. It has a fairly nice setting on the edge of the park. The other coaster in the park, RCDB just has it listed as a Miler Coaster. I'm curious to learn more about it so I will know to avoid these models if or when I encounter one again. This was the first place I'd ever seen one, but it is a portable so I'm sure there must be others in existence. The layout looks sort of mouse-ish, but on a larger scale. It uses a three-car train (it was running two trains, with a third on a transfer track) and the added speed, the train and the mouse-like turns make it feel really awkward. The short sharp hills that can be fun in a single car mouse car are painful and jarring when taken in a train and the turns felt like it was their first attempt ever to turn a coaster and they somehow got it horribly wrong. The first couple drops that were longer were fun, but the remainder of the ride was awkward and painful. I continued through the park to the Flyers. There's are probably snappable, but they specifically ask you not to move the fin too quickly when flying so as to avoid snapping. Now that I've learned how to fly them to produce snaps, it added a level of difficulty to fly without trying to snap. The other end of the park holds a game "boardwalk" and a handful of other flats. I rode their Fireball which was running well. I skipped the Chaos and the Double Shot, and their flume was a small portable one that looked particularly drenching. I ducked into some of the shops, and did a run to the car before making the circuit again. I caught the magic show sometime around 6 pm, and this was one of the best shows I've seen in a park. I would expect that in Branson, though, since to some extent the park shows have to compete with the shows outside the parks. I spent the rest of the evening taking photos, riding the Wildcat, and riding other things when I felt like it. Even though the crowds picked up over the course of the evening, the park never really felt crowded. When the Laser/Fireworks show started just before closing, I made my way back over and got several more rides in on the Wildcat at night. My last couple rides were during the fireworks show, and I made my way out of the park and back to my hotel right at closing time. As a park, I was much more impressed with SDC, but in some ways CC was more the sort of amusement park I'd expect to encounter in Branson. It's showier and more visible being closer to the main roads and not tucked into the woods on the edge of town. They were completely different parks both in style and in substance but they still seemed to complement each other. For a small and new park, CC has a surprisingly established feel to it but it obviously doesn't have the history of SDC. It will be interesting to see what is done with this park in the future. 06/30/2004 - SDC I spent another partial day at SDC before heading to Arkansas. I thought I had a hard time pulling myself away from the park on the 29th, I think I ended up leaving at least an hour later than I'd planned on the 30th, and I've since found out that there were still some things I missed that I would have liked to see. I guess I'll just have to go back. This was the first day on the trip that the rain finally caught up with me. I spent the first part of the week where each town I was in was forecasting rain for the rest of the week, but not the day I was visiting. The storms on this day were brief, and fortunately didn't carry any thunder and lightning with them. I had a little better feel for the park after my brief visit the day before. I started the day by first stopping at the petting farm area and wandering through the blacksmith and leather maker's shops before wandering to Wildfire. I got in my last Branson credit on the kiddie coaster. This was cute, and the older woman operating it was having fun with the kids riding counting down the circuits and having everyone yell when going over the first drop. I got in a ride on Fire in the Hole, another ride I just sort of wandered upon. This was a fun dark ride, but I sat in the front and managed to get a bit damp. Which didn't matter much since when I headed outside, it was raining. I stopped for a long lunch while it rained, and had a decent chicken Caesar salad indoors, made my way around the park again stopping for some of the displays. I got in another Thunderation ride, forward this time, and made my way back to the front for the cave tour. The tour was an hour of walking, some of it in fairly cramped quarters, and I believe the tour guide said it was something in the realm of 600 stairs, most of them going down in the cave initially, but about 100 or so back up to the tram that returned us to the gift shop. This was quite an interesting tour, and I would have loved to take longer and have more time to look around before being whisked off to the next point but with the number of groups they bring through and the size of each group, it's probably hard to keep each group contained without moving through as quickly as we did. Once I adjusted back to daylight, I caught a ride on Wildfire in the rain and since I was already wet, I rode the log flume. This had a nice dark ride section, and a very wet drop. I spent a good portion of the afternoon drying off. I managed to make it into the front of the standby line for the 2:30 Saloon show that was a fairly decent and comical musical review/sketch type show. I got in a couple more rides on Wildfire, saw some of the other craftsman demonstrations, and made my way out of the park around 5 pm. I could have easily spent another day or two exploring this park. I didn't even know about the Sally dark ride until George mentioned it in St. Louis, and I'm sure there are plenty of other shows and attractions I would have enjoyed that I missed. It really felt a lot like the Busch parks, since the focus was less on rides and more on shows and exhibits, but the rides were still well done and fit in with the rest of the park. It was one of my favorite parks on the trip. Beth From munkye1972@yahoo.com Fri Jul 09 16:17:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40275 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 23:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 23:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 23:17:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jul 2004 23:17:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:17:41 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f3040709151712e7da2a@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 797 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.77 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: Branson Parks (SDC & CC) 06/29/2004 & 06/30/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Beth Aslakson wrote: > From Kansas City, I headed to Branson. > Beth When I was stationed in Minnesota, I made it to WoF and 6FStL, but I missed out on some of the other parks you are hitting on this trip. Now I wish I had planned more carefully, as I was as underwhelmed with WoF as you were (and that was 150 coasters ago!), but it was recommended by a long time KC resident. I didn't even consider Iowa or Indiana, much to my dismay now, and thought Branson too far south to bother. Now with a couple of 2,000+ mile trips under my belt I realize how much I missed. Incidentally, is this still one trip with your swing through the Pacific Northwest parks? If so, it's a very impressive swing around America, Beth! Chris B From afrsandy@yahoo.com Fri Jul 09 18:35:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84694 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 01:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 01:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 01:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 01:35:16 -0000 To: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 21:35:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.225 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: MISC: Fair Pics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Since I haven't done this in a while, I thought I would pass along some pics from 'round the world: http://groups.msn.com/fairimage/newcastletownmoor2004.msnw This has some pictures from New Castle, England. http://kermissite.nl/ks/index.php?showtopic=4668 http://www.kermisweb.nl/nieuws/kmg/kmg.html Pictures of KMG's foray into the upcharge world and their new "giant" ride. http://www.sternvonrio.nl/sitedata/china_beijing04/beijing_04_overview1.htm Pictures of the world carnival in Beijing (with a few of the Reverchon Gliding Coaster, which was discussed earlier here). Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 09 18:48:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24645 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 01:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 01:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 01:48:37 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-64.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.64] helo=Laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bj6yi-0005dL-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:48:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:48:24 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <200407080540.AA638451762@karenandjay.com> <74b0c9f3040708125136f35530@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f3040708125136f35530@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.74 From: George Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: Worlds of Fun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 15:51:47 -0400, Beth Aslakson wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:40:33 -0700, Jay Ducharme > wrote: >> > It felt very unoriginal, especially since I've been to all >> >the others in the chain prior to visiting here. The other parks each >> >have at least a tiny bit of originality to them < >> >> This brings up an interesting question: how jaded can enthusiasts >> become? > I have a TR coming > about Great Escape, and I've found that I kept comparing it to Busch > Gardens, which really isn't fair. > When I've experienced the "best" parks, it's tempting to think that > all parks should meet that standard. > But many because of their finances simply can't. And not everyone can > be "the best." I can certainly understand where you're both coming from. I certainly am not pointing fingers at anyone here on the list, but in other places I've seen "enthusiasts" openly attack and bash a park simply because they didn't live up to what other parks do. For example, some in Phoenix slamming Castle's and Coasters for being an oversized mini-golf area instead of a full blown theme park like Six Flags or Cedar Point, as if they have the budget, space, or even desire to be that. But in to many cases, people seem to expect that of every park. What I've found has really helped keep me from that is who I go to parks with- friends that aren't enthusiasts and don't know or care about those comparisons. Or in particular my kids, who are far more interested in having fun than whether or not a park has the most coasters, or the biggest, etc. They're usually a pretty good gauge of how the park is. Using those, I've found a lot of fun at parks that often seem to get slammed. As an good example, we loved Wild Adventures in Valdosta yesterday, and felt it was a great park, and one that I would really like to get back to again- even more than the couple of Six Flags parks that we visited. But I'll talk more about that in the upcoming TR. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 09 18:48:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72888 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 01:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 01:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 01:48:36 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-64.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.64] helo=Laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bj6yg-0005dL-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:48:34 -0700 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:48:16 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.74 From: George Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 07:09:49 -0000, adamnvillani wrote: >> I remember on the short-lived >> > Spellbreaker at Legoland, >> >> Short lived?!? What? Is it gone? > > The RCDB shows it as having operated until 2003; I last went in > December of 2003 and I believe it was SBNO. I don't know that it was operating in 2003 either. We visited in '03, as some might recall from my TR, and it was already closed for good at that point. I haven't heard anything concrete as to why it was closed, but I think it had to do with operational difficulties that they had with the coaster. Anything specific is well beyond my knowledge though. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 09 18:48:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63392 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 01:48:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 01:48:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 01:48:39 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-64.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.64] helo=Laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bj6yk-0005dL-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:48:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:48:24 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <200407081801.AA1654325540@karenandjay.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200407081801.AA1654325540@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.74 From: George Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Great Escape, 7-7-04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Hey Jay Great TR, and a lot of fun to read so much detail about a park that I've never been to. A very, very enjoyable read. Not much I can comment on, but did have a couple small things: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0700, Jay Ducharme wrote: RE: The Comet > Much of the ride appears to still have the original Douglas fir track. > But the new replacement track I > saw looked like southern yellow pine. That would be a mistake. Sure, > that wood is much cheaper. > But it also wears much more quickly. If this is a cost-cutting trend the > park is initiating, then in a couple > of years the Comet is going to ride like so many other Six Flags wood > coasters (in other words, like > crap). The next thing the park will do to save on maintenance is slow > down the > chain. Then a brake will be placed on the first drop and trim brakes > will be placed on the > turnarounds. And the beast will have been tamed, its teeth pulled. And > everyone will wonder why this coaster was ever regarded so > highly. I wouldn't be surprised about the type of wood. But as far as the rest goes, my money would be on just neglecting to do much other care to the coaster than anything else. Six Flags doesn't usually put trims on a coaster unless they need to for safety, or if doing so reduces the amount of maintanance they have to do, which doesn't seem a problem here. Oh, and Six Flags, as far as I know, has not yet ever put a trim on the first drop. That's exclusive to Cedar Fair. :) > It featured yet more pre-recorded > dialogue as swimmers jumped all over the place. I understand why the parks do this, but I sure wish they didn't use prerecorded dialogue. One of the things that we really liked on this trip was that in every show, there wasn't any prerecorded dialog anywhere, unless you count the VeggieTales characters. Not at the Six Flags parks, not at Frontier City (which did a very good western show), none of them. It was very nice for a change. > It seemed like if they really wanted to pay homage to the park's 50th > anniversary, > they would have spruced up all of the attractions that make the park > historic. But maybe part of their > problem is being owned by a huge company that's struggling financially; > there's no money for "sprucing up." Reading through your TR, it sounds like there are a lot of the little things like this that could use some touching up and TLC. Sadly, it seems like that is just not a Six Flags thing. Maybe it's because of their finanaces, but it just seems odd that it seems to be the case in practically every park. Especially after visiting several non-SF parks that I'm sure are on tighter budgets, but where you can see the attention paid to things like that. It sure adds to the overall atmosphere in the park, which is what makes people want to revisit. The giant rides may bring them in the first time, but it's the small things that keep them coming back again and again. Now if only Six Flags could seem to understand that. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 09 18:54:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60688 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 01:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 01:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 01:54:51 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-64.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.64] helo=Laptop) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bj74j-0006YK-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:54:49 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <20040709214310.26779.qmail@buzzneon.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:54:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040709214310.26779.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.74 From: George Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 16:43:10 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > >> done later on. I'm about halfway through the Dollywood one now. > > What did you think of Thunderhead?!! Yer jes gonna haf to wait to find out, now aint cha'? :P Don't worry, I'm hoping to have the TR done later on tonight, or tomorrow at the latest. I can give you this hint- about the only bad thing I have to say about Dollywood was nothing that they have any control over whatsoever. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From lance@screamscape.com Fri Jul 09 19:01:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78812 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 02:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 02:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grenada.globat.com) (216.193.201.33) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 02:01:53 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by grenada.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6A21m5r021962 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 7660 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 02:01:48 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 02:01:48 -0000 Message-ID: <00e601c46621$dc223600$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:01:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.33 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Unusual Coaster Types X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > >> I remember on the short-lived > >> > Spellbreaker at Legoland, > >> > >> Short lived?!? What? Is it gone? > > > > The RCDB shows it as having operated until 2003; I last went in > > December of 2003 and I believe it was SBNO. > > I don't know that it was operating in 2003 either. We visited in '03, as > some might recall from my TR, and it was already closed for good at that > point. I haven't heard anything concrete as to why it was closed, but I > think it had to do with operational difficulties that they had with the > coaster. Anything specific is well beyond my knowledge though. I got in touch with the park to get a statement about it and posted it to Screamscape.com. However... you can't read it now do to some technical problems I'm having with my server imposing a crazy "daily" bandwidth limitation even though I never go over the monthly limit that I'm paying for... not to mention the jerk I've been trying to get in touch with who is never in the office, never returns my messages and voice mails who I'm thinking about publishing his number on my site for everyone to call and complain the next time my site goes down. (Most likley on Monday when I post my next News update... ) Is that wrong?? That's not illegal is it? Anyway... Caripro doesn't exist any longer, the ride had too much down time and maintence issues and didn't live up to Legoland's high quality standards so they closed it in 2003 after 3.5 years of service and they will demolish it later this summer to make way for new future attractions. From jay@karenandjay.com Fri Jul 09 19:38:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39140 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 02:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 02:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 02:38:31 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:40:20 -0700 Message-Id: <200407091940.AA44827018@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: MISC: The Bat (was Unusual coasters) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme Adam, at the link you posted I noticed the picture of Top Gun with the caption, "Top Gun was one of Arrow's successful suspended coasters, a predecessor to The Bat, which failed." So does this mean that Top Gun came before The Bat? That doesn't seem to make sense. From what I've heard, the big problem with The Bat was that Arrow never banked the track on the turns. That's what caused the ride to pretty much rip itself apart. When they redesigned the layout so that the banking increased and the cars didn't swing as much, they had a winner (with Big Bad Wolf). I'm really surprised they couldn't manufacture new banked track for The Bat's curves and splice it into the layout. That (and modifying the brakes) probably would have made the ride a success. But I guess Vortex isn't such a bad trade-off.... Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 09 20:03:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77581 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 03:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 03:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 03:03:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 29615 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jul 2004 03:03:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20040710030323.29614.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:03:23 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "George" at Jul 09, 2004 06:48:24 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: Worlds of Fun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > Using those, I've found a lot of fun at parks that often seem to get > slammed. As an good example, we loved Wild Adventures in Valdosta > yesterday, and felt it was a great park, and one that I would really like > to get back to again- even more than the couple of Six Flags parks that we > visited. But I'll talk more about that in the upcoming TR. :) It's funny .. I seem to be the complete opposite, in that I usually really like the small parks .. even the ones that aren't even slightly glamorous (ie: Michigan's Adventure). I don't know .. maybe I just haven't traveled enough to be that fussy! Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Need more * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Ice-cream! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 09 20:04:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39194 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 03:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 03:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 03:04:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 29630 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jul 2004 03:04:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20040710030419.29629.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:04:19 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "George" at Jul 09, 2004 06:54:43 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey George, > > What did you think of Thunderhead?!! > > Yer jes gonna haf to wait to find out, now aint cha'? :P Ve haf veys ov mekking you talk! (And, yes .. I'll stop now! ;-) ) Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Need more * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Ice-cream! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From bethtoons@gmail.com Fri Jul 09 21:36:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57817 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 04:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 04:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.246) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 04:36:23 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so338912cwb for ; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.20 with SMTP id u20mr7606cwc; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f3040709213635106706@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:36:22 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.246 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: Branson Parks (SDC & CC) 06/29/2004 & 06/30/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:17:41 -0000, munkye1972 wrote: > Incidentally, is this still one trip with your swing through the > Pacific Northwest parks? If so, it's a very impressive swing around > America, Beth! Heh, nope. this was a completely different trip. I do have to work occasionally too. :P It's a combonation of additional purchased vacation time, comp days from some Saturdays I worked in the spring, good utilization of holidays and weekends, and an unexpected out-of-state training class. I've barely been in the office this month, and the trips will come faster and closer together in the next couple weeks. There's also something to be said for selfishness and efficiency, two traits which I enjoy right now but will probably make me incapable of living or travelling with other human beings later in life. For some reason I claimed this summer wouldn't be as crazy as last summer was... and somehow I've managed to make it crazier. Lets see... summer trip recap. I did a week over memorial day for the NW trip. (6 parks) I did a week over the 4th for the MW (10 parks, the one I'm TRing now... Branson is only about halfway through.. I still have 4 more parks to TR since I piggybacked on George's StL TR) I leave next Saturday for a week in Maine (4 parks... the trip is for a work related training class, but I'm arriving 3 days before the class starts and driving to visit Chris K and see The Great Escape and Canobie over my extra days, plus trying to catch Funtown Splashtown and Palace Playland after my class lets out in the evenings during the week) . A week after I return from that trip I have another week+2 weekends long road trip planned through West NY, Niagra Falls and West & Central PA. Lots of little parks on that trip, but much shorter driving distances between parks. (13 parks in 9 days, 5 are parks I've visited before) A 5-day weekend over Labor Day in Minnesota (to visit my brother and his fiance, The Dells, Mall of America and the MN State Fair) And I have the days set aside for the 4-day weekend PPP I've taken with others from the list the last couple of year. At the rate things have been going, that may be the first time I see Brian and J this year :P Plus some local drive parks (within 4-5 hours away) on the weekends in between, although those plans are a little more flexible... I cancelled plans to go to SFGAm this weekend because my apartment is a mess, I haven't done anything at home except sleep since I got back from the last trip, and I don't really feel like driving so soon after I put nearly 3000 new miles on my car in 10 days less than a week ago. I had the three week-long trips planned early in the year and they were all spaced out with at least 3 weeks between each trip so I would feel like I'd been at work before I left for vacation again. My boss kind of sprung the training class on me and it fell in between two of the planned trips so it's added an extra week of craziness to the mix. I wouldn't be surprised if I burn myself out this year. Beth From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sat Jul 10 09:00:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78707 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.114] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 16:00:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:00:15 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 463 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: MISC: Coastercounts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 Hey, Greg, Are you planning on moving past England soon? I'm sure it's time consuming updating, but your site is more complete for the areas it covers than any other site by a wide margin. I noticed you added 2004 coasters. I was shocked that after updating my gregleg (262 coasters) and using RCDB for the rest of the coasters I've been on I got up to 344 while I wasn't paying attention. I wonder if I could hit 6 coasters this weekend? Hmmm... Chris B From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Sat Jul 10 10:27:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40238 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 17:27:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 17:27:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 17:27:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 17:27:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:27:13 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 386 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.207.195 Subject: Re: TR: Great Escape, 7-7-04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, George wrote: > The giant rides may > bring them in the first time, but it's the small things that keep > them coming back again and again. > > Now if only Six Flags could seem to understand that. Yep. It's remarkable to think that SFMM has actually closed more non- coaster rides since the 80s than they've opened. Adam From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Sat Jul 10 11:12:59 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30886 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 18:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 18:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 18:12:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2004 18:12:58 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:12:56 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4665 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.207.195 Subject: Brief TR: Knott's Berry Farm, 7/8/04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani KBF is actually the closest full-scale amusement park to where I grew up and still live, so I've been there many times and won't provide a full TR. It is my first time making a "regular" visit in many years, though; I had been to the Halloween Haunt several times and a brief shopper's pass trip, but it had been a long time since I had been there during the daytime for something close to a normal visit. Even so, I had a coupon from work for after-4 PM admission for $16.95, so I got off of work a little early and took them up on the offer. I went with my girlfriend and met up with my sister and her husband, visiting from New Orleans, who had been there all day (same coupon, $23.95). We got in the gates at about 5:00. As a result, it was a chance to look at Knott's with a fairly fresh view and ride some of the big new rides I hadn't been on. First stop was Ghost Rider, only my second time on it and everyone else's first. The wait was about 35 minutes, our longest queue of the day. Consensus is that it totally rocks, overall the best ride in the park (Xcelerator is close). I noticed that it spends very little time anywhere near as high as its lift hill, so it's got a lot of potential energy converted into kinetic throughout the ride. Rushed through Camp Snoopy, where I saw they have a Frog Hopper (themed as "Woodstock's Airmail") using a less jarring program than I saw at Belmont Park, and some weird thing called the Gr8 Sk8 that's like a big see-saw with a car that slides between them. I didn't ride any of the kiddie rides (not even the coaster), but CS at Knott's looks really good for a kiddie land. Next stop was Montezooma's Revenge, still a pretty powerful blast of a ride; unfortunately it made me feel a bit woozy, but I recovered after not too long. Then the Supreme Scream, which I hadn't been on. Pretty spectacular... once you get up to the top, you're REALLY, REALLY high! It's like you're away from everything else, it gets quiet, you hear the wind... and then you fall a long way. Then the Xcelerator, also new to me. Wow. GR is a more complete ride, but this is the biggest blast of adrenaline. I think it also lends itself to more re-rides, since it's so smooth. After four intense rides in a row, we were ready for a soothing trip on the Calico Mine Train. While we were waiting we caught a glimpse of some Stomp-like performance going on in Calico Square, which was good enough to distract us while waiting. This one's a classic dark ride, with some great dioramas and primitive animatronics. Interesting how Disneyland mostly uses animatronics for fantasy purposes, or at least for rollicking pirates, but at Ghost Town, you get haggard-looking hard-working men. I always feel a little sad for those guys. The Log Ride was next, a perennial classic, still a great ride. Then we got some food; I filled up on a boysenberry Icee (you *have* to get something with boysenberries at Knott's) and some pretty good BBQ ribs (6 bucks for three big beef ribs) being cooked outside. We sat and watched people get put through the Rip Tide --- similar to the Hell's Gate we saw in Vancouver; pretty entertaining to watch, but no way was I getting on it myself. Unfortunately, the Haunted Shack has passed into the land of beyond; I always thought that was the most charming thing at Knott's, with the water that flows uphill, pool balls that all fall in one pocket, etc. Sorry to see it go. Then to Kingdom of the Dinosaurs, KBF's cheesy dark ride that I still feel compelled to ride any time I visit. They've changed around the operation of the ride so that the cars all run through as a train, and it comes to a complete stop for embarking/disembarking. That seemed pretty weird; maybe there were problems with disabled people, and maybe it's easier to keep on eye on kids causing problems if everybody goes through at once. After that it was a night ride on the Ghost Rider (still great) and one last trip on Xcelerator as the park was closing. All told, a fun day for all... Knott's and Cedar Fair obviously care about their customers, and they even do their best to keep prices reasonable and the food good. The only real negative was the loss of the Haunted Shack. Construction on the Silver Bullet has begun. It looks like they have the station and the first couple of segments of the lift hill. It's mostly blocked off, but I think if we had gone on the Jaguar, we could have gotten a better look at the construction. My one question... with a name like Silver Bullet, wouldn't you expect the color scheme to be something other than Red and Blue? Adam From gburnash@earthlink.net Sat Jul 10 16:46:40 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74884 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 23:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 23:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.12) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 23:46:39 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool13-184.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.13.184] helo=Laptop) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BjRYD-0003Zh-00 for rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:46:38 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:46:26 -0700 To: "rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.12 From: George Burnash Subject: TR: Pigeon Forge and Dollywood- Day 1 of 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash We stayed just west of Nashville the night before, and rising a bit early (for us at least), we were on the road around 9:30, figuring that would give us plenty of time to get to Dollywood around 3-3:30, good timing for their special giving a second day free if you enter after 3 on the first day. We took some time in Nashville to walk around the Grand Old Opry and try to locate the amusement park there, just to look, but never found it. Then hit I-40 and promptly ran into a major problem. For some reason, eastbound I-40 was closed coming out of the city. Totally and completely. Westbound was open, but not east. There wasn't an effective detour set up, traffic was just dumped out onto a road which could not possibly handle it, and put everyone to a standstill. After 45 minutes of traveling at an average speed of 3 mph (no exaggeration on that), I finally had managed to get to where I could make a questionable turn onto a side street and taking that route, found some other roads going in the same general direction, crossing over the freeway several times, and finally getting back on it again. At no time did there seem to be any reason the freeway was closed. In allt he crossovers, we never spotted a thing on the freeway to indicate what they were doing, and finally figured it must have been a Tennesee experiment in frustrating drivers. :) In any case, after that "fun" diversion, we got back on and made good time through Knoxville. At least until we took the turn off to head to Pigeon Forge. From the turnoff on I40 until we got through Pigeon Forge to turn into the park, it took us over an hour- to travel about 15-20 miles! Traffic was backed up to a near standstill the entire route pouring into the area. And with it being a Monday after a holiday weekend, we were a bit confused as to where all the people were coming from, as I had thought most would be going back to work. Not around here I guess. Pigeon Forge and the area is, in many ways, very similar to Branson, MO, just with not as many theaters (though there are several) and not looking quite as nice. But still a very fun little town,and I really wish that I had more money and time that we could have taken advantage of some of it. Lots of mini-golf, go carts- including several multi-leveled tracks, bungi- jumps, "crane" rides, museums, and lots of other tourist stops. But we bypassed all of those to head straight to the park, arriving around 5:15- a good 2 hours later than the time we had hoped for. After paying our $6 parking fee, and finding a nice empty parking space close to the gate, we headed in. The Place: Dollywood Dates: July 5 and 6 Weather: changing constantly- as you'll see The People: Me, my kids Amber and Joseph, and my friend Dave Crowds: lots of them. Why? They're supposed to be going home! Entering the park, we noticed 3 things right away. First, it was hot and humid, and we started to look for a place to cool off pretty quick. Second, there sure seemed to be a lot of people here. More than I was expecting. And third, the park seems to have a lot in common with Silver Dollar City in Branson- and not just the town outside the park, as you'll see. We headed first to the motion simulator ride, which is built around the idea of Dolly and her "friend" giving you a backwoods ride through the Smokey's in a contraption that doesn't quite work right. A lot of fun, and the air conditioning was quite welcome. This may be one of the better simulator rides I've been on, and the wait wasn't to bad at about 15 minutes. It also gave us a bit of time to figure out where to go and what to do. We also got some information from others about what was in the park and quickly learned that if it was a big ride, it likely had a long line. Estimates we heard were an hour for the rapids, 90 minutes for Thunderhead, etc. And those times turned out to be pretty accurate when we looked. Ouch. In any case, we headed on up through the craftsman village area of the park, which looked and felt remarkably like Silver Dollar City, including the entertainment venues, but with about half the number of craftsmen shops here as SDC had. Still very nice for the shopper, and I had to keep myself away from most of the shops to prevent me blowing my budget, as I did a bit at SDC. :) At the far end of this area was one of our goals in the park: Tennessee Tornado. We had been looking along the way for a place to wet down and cool off a bit, but realized the next day that we had walked right past a couple of them without seeing them. Figures. But at least the coaster provided a nice breeze, and this area of the park wasn't to crowded. Tornado is a custom built Arrow coaster that, in total and complete honesty, is a fantastic coaster. It's got a fast, force filled double down style drop, with the second part of it being long and through a tunnel, then proceeding into several different inversions in a unique, fast, and smooth (yes, you read that right) layout. Put simply, this is an incredible, awesome coaster, with everyone getting off of it with big grins on their faces. While Joseph decided not to ride, the other 3 of us loved it, and it easily gets a 9 from me. This coaster is well worth visiting the park for on it's own account. Our next stop was Blazing Fury, a nearly identical ride to Fire in the Hole at SDC. I've never seen anything at all like these rides, and now I've come accross 2 of them within a 5 day span. The only differences that I could see on these were this one runs 3 car trains instead of 2, with a bit of a different lap bar on the trains (t-bars for 2 people as opposed to individual looping bars), a couple of the sets looked a bit different, and Dolly's version has some water cannons at the end of it on the splashdown that succeed in getting you quite wet. Which was quite nice, as far as we were concerned. Still not a coaster in my book, but very close, and a fun little ride. We looked at some of the sights to see as we slowly made our way down the hill, and sky began to rapidly darken. Then the wind began to blow. With only an hour and a half or so until the park closed, it wasn't looking good. But we turned into Granny's Kitchen, with a nice buffet, in hopes of waiting out the weather and seeing if we couldn't get some closing rides on Thunderhead. No such luck. As soon as we got inside, the sky opened up. The wind blew hard (knocking over several trees in town, we found out later) sending branches, twigs, etc flying, and it poured, hard. We were thankful to be inside and enjoyed some delicious homestyle cooking in the buffet. Great food while we watched the worst storm we'd encountered thus far. After an hour though, it was obvious that it wasn't blowing through. Dave had taken a bit of time as we were waiting to dash up the hill to the leather shop we had passed and picked up a duster overcoat similar to ones that we've seen in CA for $300 and up, buying it here on sale for half off of it's normal $200 price. Then we headed down the hill to the entry. The rain had lightened some, so wasn't to bad at this point. We got most of our souvenier shopping done now, again trying to wait out the weather a bit, then Dave picked up the car and brought it back to pick me and the kids up. Then headed out to our hotel in Pigeon Forge, grateful with the weather and traffic that it was close to the park. Especially when we saw the water overflowing out of the sewar system covers and filling up the creeks nearby. At that point, we ended our day and went back to the hotel to rest up for the next day. Doing so, that's where I'll end this one, and get to work on day 2 for you. Yes Cam, you're just going to have to wait a bit more. ;) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Sat Jul 10 17:12:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37250 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 00:12:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 00:12:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.232) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 00:12:39 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool13-184.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.13.184] helo=Laptop) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BjRx9-0004xI-00 for rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:12:33 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:10:53 -0700 To: "rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.232 From: George Burnash Subject: TR: Dollywood Day 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash After the deluge the night before, Tuesday dawned bright and clear. Since we had noticed that the park was pretty busy the day before, we made an extra effort to get moving early, and were at the gates a bit before 9am, when the park opened. We used the tickets that we had paid for the day before, got our free second day admission, and headed on in. With the rain, Thunderhead in the evening hadn't happened like we had hoped, so that was our first stop. We waited along with several others in a small, but slowly growing line, for them to drop a rope and let us up the "Gap" to the coaster. It's a bit of a walk, uphill, and past a fence, access road, and a bit of scenery (nice tombstones for example) up to the coaster, but it's otherwise in a new, but not otherwise used part of the park. Very pretty walking up to it, and once the let the rope down, we were queued up for the first rides of the day. Thunderhead is a GCI creation, and it shows in the twisting, banking, and crossovers that the coaster does. Running the Millenium Flyer trains, it is very comfortable and able to navigate the course well. Mixed in with the turns are several areas that give small to moderately large shots of air- something that GCI isn't known for but does very well here. We managed to get in 4 quick rides before the lines got to long for us, especially with a good amount left in the park that we wanted to do. That included rides up front, back, and in the middle. So, does it live up the hype? Well, Dollywood already has in their brochures that it's touted as the "Best Coaster on the Planet" according to Thrillride. And to be honest, I'm not sure I could dispute that. It didn't knock Phoenix off of the top spot on my list, but I rode Phoenix at night after a light rain had fallen and sped it up to insane speeds. These were among the first 10 or so rides of the day, so it didn't have the same kind of conditions. But it was incredibly smooth while delivering all the forces that you could want- lats, negative g's, speed. It's got it all. And with all that, it's still family friendly. My kids loved it, I loved it, my friend Dave loved it. And honestly, I couldn't find anything wrong on the coaster at all. If the only thing that I had managed to do at Dollywood was this, it was worth the extra detour on my trip to do it. Yes, it really is that good. One of the few coasters to score a solid 10. But now, the real test will be, will it still be like that in a few years when it's aged a bit, and we've had the chance to see how the park takes care of it. After that, we wandered around the park for a while, catching a lot of what we missed in our abbreviated day the day before. We rode the Mountain Slidewinder, which is a waterslide with very large, long foam rubber boats that can seat up to 5 or 6 people front to back. It's a hike up a hill to get on it, but more than worth the trip. One of the most fun, and unique, rides I've been on, and a blast to ride, as well as a nice, refreshing dousing to help keep you cool. Next up, a bit further towards the back of the park, was Daredevil Falls. This is sort of a log flume, but the boats are bigger, seating up to 8 people in 4 rows of 2. It has a couple of dark scenes, some wandering around with signs and landscaping, and a large, fast drop that will soak you. Again, absolutely worth riding, and if you're at the park it's one to make sure you don't miss. We figured since we were doing a run of the water rides, we might as well hit the other major one that we missed yesterday due to long lines and headed for the rapids. These have 6 man boats, and once you get a ways up in the line, there is an option to split off if you're in a group of 1 or 2 so that they can fill up the boats. We split our group of 4 into 2 twosomes and saved probably 15 minutes of waiting that way. Fun, but we didn't get very wet. The boats were 6 man boats, and one or two people in the boat would catch a spot or two and get wet, but the others were pretty much left dry. However, we were wet enough from the other rides that it didn't matter to much to us at that point. By now, the park was starting to get crowded. Again. And I don't mean just a bit. The crowds started to look like what I would expect at most parks on a summer Saturday. Even the carousel had a 15-20 minute with the line well out of their queue area. And on a Tuesday. Wow. So instead of riding, we had lunch at the just opening for the day Hickory House BBQ, which served up some great ribs, chicken, and more. We had big plates full of food, and it ran us about $30. Now if you remember, I mentioned the BBQ at Six Flags a couple of days before this. Same number of people eating, similar plates, but here they gave you more food, it tasted much, much better, and it cost about $15 less for all of us to eat than it did at Six Flags. No Cam, BBQ doesn't have to be that expensive. :) We then took in a couple of shows. The Birds of Prey show, featuring their work with Eagle Mountain Sanctuary, a bald eagle raising, rehabilitation, and release organization, was excellent. Very well done, fun to watch, and very educational. Kind of fun to realize that the bald eagles at the National Zoo in Washington were a gift from Dolly. And again, something that shouldn't be missed. The other show that we caught was aimed more at the kids- Veggietales! Silver Dollar City also offered a Veggietales show, but this one had a different storyline, different songs, and we enjoyed it a bit more. If you have kids, or if you enjoy the antics of Bob and Larry, this is a great show. If you don't, who knows, you might have fun with it anyways. :) With a little more quick shopping, we decided that the heat and the crowds were getting to be a bit much for us, and though we wanted to hit the train ride, it just didn't look like a good option at that point. (long waits, even when the trains weren't scheduled to leave for another half hour), so we checked out, loaded up the van, and started the 3-4 hour drive to Atlanta. NOTES The similarities between Dollywood and Silver Dollar City were striking, and it became very obvious very quickly that these are sister parks- at least in some fashion. Some rides the same (Fire in the Hole vs. Blazing Fury), some shows (VeggieTales), both having the KidsFest, the craftsmen, etc. Dollywood is the smaller of the two, and having seen so much of it at Silver Dollar City, it was a bit easier to skip over some of the craftsmen and the like. But it is a top notch park, with a lot of shows (only 12 different ones at various times each day we were there, plus another 2-3 that were off for the day), along with demonstations, so there was always something to watch, see, or do. The workers were all very friendly, outgoing, and did their jobs well. It also reminded me why I enjoy seeing them wear some sort of costume that blends in with the theme of the park. That one little thing just seems to add so much to the atmosphere of the park. And maybe it's just me, but it seems like when the employees are in a costume as opposed to a generic uniform, they seem to be "into" their jobs more. Just an observation. Overall, Dollywood was a fantastic park, and one that we were very happy to have visited. It's certainly a park that I hope to get back to again at some point. And one that I highly recommend for everyone to drop in. Thunderhead is worth the trip. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sat Jul 10 18:58:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97282 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 01:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 01:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.227) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 01:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 01:58:36 -0000 To: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:58:31 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.227 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Mini TR: Strates Shows, July 10- Harrisburg, PA X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Went to see Strates in Harrisburg today. The ride line-up was as follows (to the best of recollection): Major: Huss Top Spin Larson Fireball Bertazzon Music Express Zierer Wave Swinger Chance Thunderbolt Kroon Wheel KMG Afterburner 3 Lane Slide Dartron Cliff Hanger Sellner Tilt Reverchon Himalaya (under repair) Tivoli Re-Mix Majestic Scooter Kiddie (missing several): Chance Red Baron Wisdom Landslide Venture Mini Himalaya Zamperla Family Swinger Eli Bridge Construction Zone Dark rides/Fun houses: Ghost House dark ride, Monkey Maze & Additional dark ride The show isn't traveling with the Huss trio of the Pirate, Rainbow and Enterprise. Their absence is missed not only because I enjoy seeing big iron on the midway, but because it left the show with a little bit of a dearth of vertical rides for both the experience and the attention to pull people off the road. Overall the show looked pretty good, the Re-Mix was the only thing I thought could use some serious paint. My main reason for going was to see America's only traveling Top Spin in action. It is so strange seeing this thing on the road in the states, but pretty cool to see a little bit of how it racked. The program was by far the best I have gotten on a Top Spin, around 12-15 rolls, usually with three or four in a row. It seems that most Cedar Fair or Six Flags parks only run three or four in a program. If you are in the Harrisburg area this weekend or next or in Wilkes-Barre the last two weekends in July stop by to check this monster of the midway out. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From Briguy7568@aol.com Sat Jul 10 19:27:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Briguy7568@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27181 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 02:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 02:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m15.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.205) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 02:27:00 -0000 Received: from Briguy7568@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1e1.251235ad (15874) for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d18.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.134]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v100.23) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-3e0240f0a56e312; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:26:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:26:54 -0400 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <761D5359.1531DCCF.0AF30940@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 4.230.126.137 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.205 From: Briguy7568@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: The Bat (was Unusual coasters) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3522502 Having grown up going to Kings Island, I was fortunate enough to have ridden The Bat. I have to say that it was by far one of the best Arrow suspended coasters, next to Big Bad Wolf, that I have ever ridden. The swings were almost vertical which made it a truly amazing ride. The speed of the coaster itself wasnt too fast, but the laterals were incredible. It had a similar feel to that of Iron Dragon. The first lift hill to the second was a little slow, but the second lift drop was completely incredible. I wish it could have been saved. Top Gun is a nice coaster with its speed, but in my opinion, The Bat was the best of that type of coaster! Brian From gburnash@earthlink.net Sat Jul 10 20:12:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33608 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 03:12:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 03:12:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 03:12:10 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-246.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.246] helo=Laptop) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BjUl3-0004E8-00 for rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:12:06 -0700 To: "rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:11:56 -0700 User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.54 From: George Burnash Subject: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash Getting close to the end of the trip. Only one more park after this one! The Place: Six Flags Over Georgia The People: Me, my kids Amber and Joseph, and my friend Dave The Weather: hot and humid The Crowds: Lots of them. What the heck? It's Wednesday people! Go to work! :P We arrived in Atlanta Tuesday night and checked in at the Ramada one exit away from Six Flags. This turned out to be the most expensive hotel that we stayed at, and also provided by far the worst stay of any of them. While I was checking in, they couldn't figure out how to add my TripRewards number to my reservation (it should have been there already) so I could get credit for the stay. Then they quoted to someone asking about the rates a rate $10 a night lower than what I was getting for the same room, and I actually had to argue with them a bit before they finally lowered it. Panels were missing in the elevators. Dead bugs left on the sidewalks. Laundry facilities that left a lot to be desired (dryers didn't work, but didn't find that out until after using the washer) and so on. Oh, and then there were the wandering vice squad and police special officers wandering around, though we never quite figured out why. So it made for an interesting 2 nights. In any case, Wednesday morning we were up and ready to go, arriving at the park right around opening with our season passes in hand. I inquired about a QBot at one of the outside windows and was told by the girl that they didn't expect it to be busy, and to save my money and wait and see what the crowds were like inside before I bought, which I thought was very nice. Turns out their estimates were way off, but we'll get to that later. On entering the park, first impressions were that the park was fantastic looking. Fresh paint on just about everything, including the wood coasters, which looked wonderful! The store fronts and facades all looked crisp, clean, and new. And the park seemed to have a sparkle about it. No music however, which I didn't notice until later. But overall the park was a very pretty one to walk around in and enjoy, with lots of outdoor shade. Figuring that the newest and most modern coastern would be the one with the demand, we headed back to Superman Ultimate Escape right away. Along the way, we passed the still under construction Canyon Blaster family coaster, where they were working on the station and a lot of the surrounding area. The ads all say it opens Summer of this year, but in case they hadn't noticed, it's July! What's the deal with this taking them so long to get finished? Seems like it should have been done a month ago at the least. As it is, seems like they should be announcing it for next year at this point. In any case we made it to Superan and hopped into line with a bunch of other people. Ride is still closed. 25 minutes after the park opened, they finally sent out their first test train, Then a few minutes later, another. Then they let them sit on the brake runs for a while. Then another. Sit some more. 45 minutes later, you can still see them puttering around in the station looking like they're doing nothing but gabbing, and sending out a train every few minutes, so we gave up. The line at that point would be easily over an hour, if they ever opened it, and I figured that a qbot would work just as well. So we headed over to this parks version of Ninja, which I believe is another Vekoma model similar to SFStL's version. In far to many ways. Ouch. Not good, my shoulders and neck hurt, and that was enough. Score: 3 out of 10 Right next door to it was the Great American Scream Machine, which looked incredible with it's new paint and the setting. If it rode half as good as it looked, it would be a fun ride. The red, white and blue colors, the lake under a good portion of it, and the quick moving ride ops all looked good. So did the PTC trains with single position buzz bars. Unfortunately, the coaster didn't ride anywhere near as good as it looked. What could have been, and should have been, a great ride, was not nearly so because of a lot of shuffling, jackhammering, and shaking around that the coaster didn't have to do. How a coaster can shuffle side to side on a straight portion of track.... well, I know how it can, but just really, really sad. Again, it seems like basic maintanace and care would take care of that. Sad to see it looking so good but riding so poorly. Score 5, but that because the last return run was a lot of fun. To bad the rest of the coaster wasn't. Next up was a ride on the bumper cars, which my kids love. This is a large arena, with the island in the middle making you drive in circles. We paired up with me with Amber, and Joseph with Dave. Joseph wanted to drive, and Dave wasn't sure. Then the op told them that Joseph was tall enough to have his own car and had him get into a different car, which Joseph didn't really want to do but did anyways. He prefers having help driving for when he gets stuck, and without it, he had a miserable ride, sure enough getting stuck and basically getting whomped on. Which was really to bad, as they were some very good bumper cars- fast and hitting pretty hard. In any case, with Joseph a bit upset about that ride, we tried to cheer him up, walking through the woods and taking a ride on their Rocking Tug. Then heading to the rapids, which both kids got excited about and which Dave and I shrugged, figuring another day with wet, soaking feet (I think in the entire 2 weeks, we ended up with only about 2 days where our feet managed to stay dry all day) This was a 12 man boat, but didn't stir up a lot of waves or action. A few splashes here and there, and not much else. Until near the end. That's when it came, and thank goodness we had left anything damageable back in the station. This waterfall is unlike any other. It gets only about half the boat, but I don't know that I have ever had that much water being poured on me at once at any other time in my life. Big waterfall on your head equals not a dry spot left- anywhere. And with it getting all four of us, the kids were, once again, not happy. Ugh. Getting off the ride, we noticed some growing lines, and began to get a bit concerned. After getting stuck at the Deja Vu dead end (which, coincidentally had a dead, not operating Deja Vu- rats, no completing the triple there) we turned the back corner of the park and headed towards the front, past Batman, Mindbender, the log flume, and the Scorcher, which now all had lines at least 40 minutes long, and growing longer by the minute. And it was only about 11:30, if even that late. So next stop- QBot processing! $50 later, I had a qbot in hand, and had it quickly queued up for most of the rest of the coasters that we wanted to catch. Put very simply, if it hadn't been for the qbot, there is absolutely no way that it would have been possible for us to catch the rest of the coasters at the park today. None. We might have caught 2 more, but by 2pm, even the flats had lines of 30 minutes or more. Again, summer Saturday, except during the week. Why it was like this here and at Dollywood, I don't have a clue. But it was crazy, with me even overhearing a couple of the workers muttering about how many people were there. In any case, we had about an hour to wait on our first queued up ride on the qbot, so we walked around for a few, then headed over to the Dahlonga Mine Train, their version of the Arrow mine trains so common in the Six Flags parks. And it was a good thing we had so much time. The line was about 25 minutes, give or take, but then they had a stoppage. I realized it when I looked out and saw a train sitting on the lift hill not moving, then realized it was empty. Turns out, it was apparently time for a shift change, and since they have observers on a couple of the lift hills, they had to empty and stop the ride in order to change them out for their breaks. This took a while, and by the time we got on, we had about 10 minutes until we were supposed to be on Superman! So while we rode, my mind at least was a bit distracted. Dahlonga is a three lift mine train, and for all practical purposes, otherwise seems pretty typical, with one exception. Near the end, there is one good, solid jolt, and it caught Amber unprepared, slamming her head into the back of the seat fairly hard. That left her in tears and me carrying her out of the station. Mine train score: a typical 5-6, but again, wasn't exactly thinking about it much, as we began the quick walk to Superman to make our appointment that was running out of time. However, we made it, with about 2 minutes to spare before it canceled our ride, and headed up the (empty) Fastlane queue. And I do mean empty. No one there, and we skipped the entire, at least 90 minute, wait and walked right into the station and onto the next train heading out. Amber and Joseph walked through to the exit to wait for us and hold our things, and Dave and I got into the second row outside seats. I'll say there is a lot I like about this coaster- the loading is very easy compared to the Vekoma versions, and much faster. But the ops themselves leave a lot to be desired. I was checked twice by the ops, and they still didn't catch that I wasn't actually locked in until the op at the board called out my seat number as not being locked on her board. Slow and plodding would be a good description there. In any case, off we went. Superman is fun, smooth, and the pretzel roll is plenty intense. I would have liked it a bit longer, and maybe another barrel roll, but for what it was, it was pretty good. About the only real complaint I had was that I couldn't put my head up and look ahead of me- with the padding behind it, I was almost stuck looking down and could barely see the feet of the people in front of me without straining hard. Not a big deal, but when the slow moving ops left us sitting on the brake run for 10 minutes or so- well after they had dispatched the train in front of us, that was what bothered me the most. That and looking at the stains below me that indicated that it wasn't unsual at all for them to leave trains sitting there for a while. These ops need to seriously speed things up, as they were deplorable, as evidenced from the morning and here as well. The ops get a 2, but the coaster itself gets a very nice 8.5. Getting off of Superman (finally) and rejoining the kids, Qbot beeps at us that we have about 20 minutes or so until our next ride- over at Batman. The 20 minutes turned out to be perfect for us to have a slow, casual walk through the park and make our way there, arriving almost perfectly on time. Again, we made our way through the Fastlane queue (which is through one of the gift shops) and were shown into a "holding cage" on the exit side of the station. Turns out here they have the last 2 rows of the train sectioned off for qbot only, and the only way you can get into them if you don't have a qbot is if you're lucky enough to catch a time when there is noone in the qbot line. As a qbot holder, it was great for me. But if I'd waited for a while then wasn't allowed the option to choose the last row, I would have been a bit upset. In any case, Batman was your typical Batman coaster, with one note- this is the first of the various other clones that I've been on that actually came close to matching SFMM's version for speed. Both feet were very numb when I got off, which is great in my book, and gave this particular clone a 9, as opposed to the standard 8.5 or so that I usually give them. Once again we looked to our little qbot guide for advice, and it beeps- 20 minutes until time to ride the Georgia Cyclone. OK! Turns out, we were early for this one, and had to wait 3 minutes until it would actually let us in line. But I didn't mind that at all when I walked past a 30 minute line, at the least. Georgia Cyclone is the other Cyclone clone that I've heard is supposed to be pretty good (the other being SFGrAm's Viper, which is great) And again the coaster looked gorgeous, with new paint and looking wonderfully maintained, loved, and beautiful. To bad it didn't ride like it. While it wasn't as bad as Psyclone, it wasn't terribly far off. It shook, bashed, slammed, and otherwise shuffled it's way around the course, and doing the same to us along the way. It was, again, obvious that something needed to be done here, as even the slow turnaround out of the station had a lot of jerking shuffling motion as the trains tried to find the track and moved back and forth between the rails. Just really sad to see what condition it rides in when I've heard so much good about it. As it was, it rated just a 3 from us for the day. All 4 of us had ridden Cyclone, and all four of us were in a bit of pain. And once again, the kids weren't real happy (seeing a theme here yet?) Crowds and heat didn't help. But we were dedicated. After all, there were coasters to ride that we hadn't been on yet. So once again, we looked to our trusty qbot, and it beeped: Georgia Scorcher in 30 minutes. So clenching our souvenier cups in hand, we headed out. Refilling the cups, we let the kids rest in the shade of the overpass bridge that the train and the logflume line make use of while I checked out some lines for other rides in the park. Then Dave and I, after getting the kids situated in a nice, cool area to wait for us where we could see each other, got in the Fastlane line for Scorcher. This was the one time we really had to wait using Qbot, but even then it was about 20 minutes at worst. And that because we had some people cut in front of us, and one poor lady who was mentally low flip out and refuse to ride. It took the people with her a few minutes to get a clue and figure out that she wasn't going to ride, no matter what they did, which was good in my mind because I wasn't sure that she was capable of being on a stand up coaster anyways. Loading was also a bit slow as there were a lot of people who apparently couldn't figure out that a stand up coaster means you're supposed to stand up on it, not sit down, and the ops were making them stand up right. To bad, I like how SFMM does it and just leaves the goofs like that so they come back singing soprano. Hey, if they're not smart enough to look around and figure it out.... :) Georgia Scorcher is one of the first coasters you see when you enter the park, and it looks great sitting out front the way it does. However, so far the pretty coasters had been big let downs. Thanfully, that wasn't the case here as Scorcher was a lot of fun. It was a bit short, but the pacing, elements, and intensity were all where I like it. Really, the only thing I could knock it on was that when it ended, we wanted more of it. A very good coaster, and one that I wish the kids were old enough to ride. It might have helped their day. In any case, it gets a good, solid 8.5 from me, with the only real knock on it being the length of it. For those interested, this is my number 3 stand-up, behind Riddler's and Chang. Leaving Scorcher, the qbot once again beeped- next stop, Mindbender. After the other coasters, and some of the disappointments, this was at this point my most anticipated coaster in the park. All four of us lined up to take a ride on another of Anton's pieces, and his artwork came through in flying colors! This is one excellent, fantastic coaster. The landscaping around it is wonderfully done, and the coaster is a tremendous ride to boot. All of us wanted to take another round on it, and we got off and quickly readded it to the qbot for another round. This was, for all of us, the highlight in the park and the best coaster there. Easily a 9, and well worth several rides if you can get a time when the lines aren't horribly long. With that done, we were getting tired. It was now around 3:30 to 4, and we were also hungry. So we began the great food hunt- trying to find an indoor eating place with air conditioning and food the kids would eat. Deejay's Diner? Air not working and to hot. El Jalapeno? Air, yes, but with only burritos and nachos, it's not food the kids would eat (why not at least tacos also?) Plantation House? Iffy air, and no one wanted chicken. Finally we ate at the Whistlin Dixies, which worked well with sandwiches, corn dogs, and hot dogs. Fairly typical park food, but it was nice to sit in cooler air and recharge for a while. Feeling better and wanting to wrap up the park, we used qbot to ride Monster Plantation, their dark ride, which turned out to be a lot of cheesy fun. This has obviously been around for a while, but it was nice to see a good sized group waiting to ride it, and that we needed the qbot to actually get in a ride on it. Lots of fun, maybe not worth waiting a long time for, but otherwise a good ride. We also took a ride on one of the few remaining parachute rides left in the states, with me taking pictures from on the ride and making notes to the kids to be sure they remembered it, as it may be the only ride they get on these rapidly disappearing rides. Then we headed over to Shake, Rattle, and Roll, their "new" ride which turned out to be a Scrambler put inside a building with light effects inside. This was a lot of fun, but also turned out to be the single worst moment of the entire trip. Normally I keep my cell phone on me on rides. But this was a very controlled area, with the only people in the building being the ones that were actually on the ride. And with the crushing I was going to get from my ride partner, I figured in this one case it was better to put my phone aside in the cubby hole area. Big mistake. Sure enough, ride ended and someone snagged my phone. It was turned off within 5 minutes, as we tried to call it using Dave's phone. While I tracked down security and filed the report and went through the process, Dave kept trying, but after a while, we were sure that it was stolen and not just an inadvertant pick up. Especially since I had left the phone on, and it got turned off in short order. Thankfully though, it happened near the end of the trip, and we still had Dave's phone. I also had insurance which covered the loss, and my replacement will be here on Monday. But if you've ever talked to me on the cell phone at all, or have my number, please, give me a call sometime after Tuesday at the same old number so I can readd you to my directory. Since that was the last thing we wanted to do at the park anyways, and now with me in a majorly bummed out mood, we decided that was a good time to head out. I was able to find a magnet for my collection fairly quickly, even without really wanting to look for one. But figured I should, since it really wasn't the park's fault that I put my phone down when I shouldn't have. Souveniers bought, we headed back to our room at the "luxurious" Ramada. Ha. Overall, SFoG was a nice park, and one that we really felt tried to give us a good time. The kids had a string of dislikes and mishaps that we really didn't feel was the park's fault, but as such they left not liking the park to much- or at least their experiences at it. And there were parts of the park that I really liked, being particularly impressed with Mindbender, Scorcher, and the appearance of the park. We didn't catch any of the shows, and didn't see a show schedule around anywhere, but saw several theaters and looked like they had a decent selection. Hopefully at some point I can get back to the park, get my ride on Deja Vu, and catch them on a day without quite so many bad moments that the park had little to do with put a damper on my visit. Only one TR left- for the much maligned Wild Adventures in Valdosta, GA. Turned out to be a park we really, really liked. Watch for it coming soon. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Sat Jul 10 20:48:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42800 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 03:48:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 03:48:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m19.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.11) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 03:48:06 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.f.2ddae579 (24895) for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:48:04 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.11 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great trip report and the write-up on Mindbender leaves me wanting to go just for that ride alone as it hasn't changed since I was on it in 1986. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING - NHL CHAMPIONS, 2004 IN THE WARRIOR'S CODE, THERE IS NO SURRENDER! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Sun Jul 11 08:16:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29885 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 15:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 15:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 15:16:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 15731 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2004 15:16:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20040711151636.15730.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:16:36 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "George Burnash" at Jul 10, 2004 07:46:26 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Pigeon Forge and Dollywood- Day 1 of 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > In any case, after that "fun" diversion, we got back on and made good time > through Knoxville. At least until we took the turn off to head to Pigeon > Forge. From the turnoff on I40 until we got through Pigeon Forge to turn > into the park, it took us over an hour- to travel about 15-20 miles! > Traffic was backed up to a near standstill the entire route pouring into > the area. See .. I told you, EVIL! It was the same when I was there in June .. all hours of the day, traffic was horrible. The whole town could disappear from the planet, and we'd all be better off :-) Awesome Dollywood reports, George .. I knew you'd love Thunderhead, it is almost impossible not to! I'm not too worried about it aging badly, after all it's not a Cedar Fair park. I also agree with your comments about Tennessee Tornado .. a really fantastic ride. We actually ended up riding that more than Thunderhead, since one member of my group was too big for those restraints. I actually didn't mind, since Tornado had us laughing pretty much every ride. That first drop is terrific fun. I was very envious reading your report .. I very, very, much want to return! Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** I am Bender, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Please insert girder. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Sun Jul 11 08:20:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42210 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 15:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 15:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 15:20:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 15753 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2004 15:20:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20040711152028.15752.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:20:28 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "George Burnash" at Jul 10, 2004 11:11:56 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey George, Another great report! Six Flags Over Georgia was on my plan for a while, but it was just a little too far out of the way. I'd love to go there.. > We arrived in Atlanta Tuesday night and checked in at the Ramada one exit > away from Six Flags. This turned out to be the most expensive hotel that > we stayed at, and also provided by far the worst stay of any of them. Two words: Hampton Inn! I stayed at Hampton Inn pretty much every stop on my trip, and not only was I satisfied with them .. I actually enjoyed them. Comfortable, clean, quiet, new, and most offered free high-speed wireless internet access. Plus a good free breakfast every morning. They may not be the cheapest of the cheap hotels, but extra money is more than worth it. Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** I am Bender, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Please insert girder. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 10:02:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69079 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp103.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.222) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp103.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:02:16 -0000 To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:02:11 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.222 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: RE: TR: Yomiuriland, Tokyo Japan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >Each one made me think I was about to leave the train, but the OTSR's were actually very comfortable, and I experienced no >pain. Yes, it's really a TOGO! Although not top ten, this was actually an incredible coaster, and I liked that it kept >getting faster as it went. I can't think of too many other coasters that pull that off. (Thunderbolt, KW being one) Thanks for the (snipped) description. I have wanted to hear a first-hand account for quite some time. When I first started reading about coasters (circa the early 90's) I always heard what a great ride this was. But, since Magnum opened shortly after Bandit it seemed to garner most of the media's attention. It is probably the coaster I most want to get on in Japan. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 10:07:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62447 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp015.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.59) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp015.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:07:45 -0000 To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.173.59 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: RE: TR: Smaller Tokyo Parks Whirlwind Part 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >The only items of real note were the Carousel with it's El Dorado name and it's Carribbean pirate / Spanish main theme in >real wood carved pieces, the Toys R Us (huh?) on the park grounds, and the 1965 steel coaster, Cyclone. Did the carousel look anything like this: http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/coneyisland/articles/images/stp-carousel.jpg ? If so, then it was the El Dorado Carousel was from Steeplechase Park. I know a Japanese consortium bought it after the park closed, but I never heard where it went. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 10:11:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67694 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:11:33 -0000 To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:11:29 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304070613213d8a2bc2@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.223 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: RE: TR: Worlds of Fun 06/28/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >Next up was the Boomerang. It was a boomerang. An Egyptian themed faded orange and yellow boomerang with absolutely no shade >in a big lot of dirt surrounded by lots of gravel and cement. Pointless trivia: This was where Zambezi Zinger stood (at least part of it). In fact, the weird entrance gate is from the Schwarzkopf coaster. >From the impressions I have of the park, the removal of Orient Express to add Spinning Dragons seems unnecessary from a >land-use perspective at least, as there seems to be plenty of poorly used, or unused land in and around the park. Actually, the removal of Orient had nothing to do with Dragons (i.e. SD wasn't intended as a replacement for OE). The Arrow coaster was simply falling apart and the park was tired of spending money on keeping up a coaster that got mediocre ridership. Look for OE's replacement in '05 or '06. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 10:24:03 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33125 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp014.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.58) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp014.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:24:00 -0000 To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:23:56 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.173.58 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: RE: TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy First off, sorry I couldn't meet up with you, George. Hopefully you got my email... >Dead ends, paths that didn't seem to make sense, and little around the park to indicate where you were or where you were >going. More than once we found ourselves somewhere we didn't want to be and had to backtrack a different way- and that was >with Jon being pretty familiar with the park. A lot of people seem to have this problem and I never have. Perhaps I spent too much time there as a teen with friends. >The other thing was that while the coaster wasn't bad, it was painfully obvious that with some TLC, regauging the track to >take care of the shuffling and stuttering, and some other basic work, this would be an incredible coaster. It could likely >fall into my top tier of coasters- if it was taken care of so it could run like it looks capable of. But as it is, it comes >out pretty short. It still would manage a 7 on the scale, but I have a feeling that it was helped with the water on the >tracks. And Jon mentioned that it was the best rides he'd had on it in a while. That's been my mantra for years. The amazing thing is that they reprofiled all the turns and the double-down and still can't find a little money to keep it in decent shape. >Lunch at the Mooseburger came next, and we got there and under shelter just in time for the sky to really open up and let >loose. When did St. Louis get a Mooseburger? Does anyone know what it replaced? >While doing so, we found one problem that has become a frustration for me on this trip- souvenirs. I know that over time souvenirs have gotten cheaper and more generic. Some of the stuff I have seen from the 70's were nice glasses, plates and other items. I am wondering if parks just find that people don't buy amusement park souvenirs anymore. And if they do, perhaps they only want the shirt because it has Superman or Batman on it with the park as an afterthought, instead of the park being the impetuous of the purchase. I would be curious to talk with some park merchandising people and see what their thoughts are. >We came back in, regrouped, and grabbed rides on their giant ferris wheel for some picture taking, Excalibur (which the 3 of >us that rode all thought was excellent!) and the log flume, which was only running one side. It's the first time in a long >time that I've seen a park with 2 flumes that run pretty close to parallel to each other. The last one I recall similar to >this was SFoT, which I believe has actually removed one of theirs now, and only has one left. Was a nice quick flume, >though not very wet. When I was at SFOT last fall they still had two and I don't recall hearing of them removing them. What I heard is that there the park was so happy with flume number one that they bought a second a year or two later because of the ride's popularity. As I understand it, only one of the two flumes is ADA compliant. Therefore, the ADA one is used all season while the other is only run Memorial Day through Labor Day. Back to SFStL these were installed the same year and are pretty cool when run in unison because if you are dispatched at the same time you usually get to the main drop at the same time. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 10:25:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38938 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:25:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:25:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:24:57 -0000 To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:24:53 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200407091940.AA44827018@karenandjay.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.225 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: RE: MISC: The Bat (was Unusual coasters) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >Adam, at the link you posted I noticed the picture of Top Gun with the caption, "Top Gun was one of Arrow's successful >suspended coasters, a predecessor to The Bat, which failed." So does this mean that Top Gun came before The Bat? That >doesn't seem to make sense. Nope...just bad grammar we missed when putting the section together. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** From the_zonga@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 10:56:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: the_zonga@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67317 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 17:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 17:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53208.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.224) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 17:56:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20040711175600.57794.qmail@web53208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.13.60.21] by web53208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:56:00 PDT Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:56:00 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.224 From: Austin Padilla Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] RE: MISC: The Bat (was Unusual coasters) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190726613 X-Yahoo-Profile: the_zonga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Sandy wrote:>Adam, at the link you posted I noticed the picture of Top Gun with the caption, "Top Gun was one of Arrow's successful >suspended coasters, a predecessor to The Bat, which failed." So does this mean that Top Gun came before The Bat? That >doesn't seem to make sense. Nope...just bad grammar we missed when putting the section together. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** Don't forget our group sites at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RollerCoasterTalk and http://www.geocities.com/RollerCoasterTalk bookmarks, files, chatroom, and more are all found there. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RollerCoasterTalk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RollerCoasterTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. I would have loved to have ridden the Bat, truly. Suspended coasters are my favorite kind. The best one I have ridden is Ninja at SFMM. Zonga --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Sun Jul 11 15:06:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49906 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 22:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 22:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 22:06:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 18855 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2004 22:06:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20040711220624.18854.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com (Talk Coaster) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:06:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Trip Report: Fat Saturday - Six Flags Great America (July 10th 2004) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Event: Fat Saturday - A.C.E. Regional event Location: Six Flags Great America Weather: Perfect Date: Saturday morning, July 10th Crowds: Less than 150 people at the event There are probably about a million jokes which can be made regarding the name of this event ... and as tempted as I am to make some, I will refrain. In order to collect Parker and get to the park by 7:45am, I had to get up at 6am; which is thirty minutes earlier than I do when I go to work .. I hope this doesn't increase my "tool" level too much! Even still, the geekage at this event was just off the scale! While waiting, with about 50 other cars, for the parking lot gates to open .. Parker and I witnessed a man, probably in his 40's, skipping down the line of cars .. arms flailing .. shrieking "THE GATES ARE OPENING! THE GATES ARE OPENING!!". Even Parker rolled his eyes and muttered "Oh my god" .. and when a 12 year old is embarrassed for a grown man, then something must terribly be wrong. This was the first in a string of 'eye-rolling' occurrences that we witnessed in just the two hour long ride-time session.. Anyway we drove into the lot, met up with Matt and Caleb, and entered the park.. The schedule called for two hours ride time on Ragin Cajun and Batman, however it turns out they were running Bull and Viper instead. I didn't hear any official announcement as to why this was the case, but since Cajun didn't open until almost noon I assume it is still being fine-tuned. I wasn't complaining, since Viper is probably my favorite ride in the park. The exclusive ride time was great .. with only about 150 people present, and two high capacity rides, we never had to wait. In fact we scored several front seat re-re-rides on both coasters. People seemed well behaved, I saw no lap-bar arguments with the ops, nor did I notice anyone sneaking cameras onto the rides. The ride ops, while not singing and dancing in Raven fashion, were doing a good job .. despite being dragged to work two hours early (on what was sure to become a very hot and super-crowded day). The coasters themselves were running very well. OK, Bull was pretty much the same as it always is (blah) .. but Viper felt strong and fast, which was a nice surprise: I was expecting less than stellar rides .. being first thing in the morning and with mostly empty trains. (OK .. so there's some toolage in me! :-) ). We didn't bother counting how many rides we managed on each of the two coasters, or even how many we got total. It's probably safe to say that we got an obscene number or rides, with about 80% of those being on Viper. At about 9:55am we decided to start wondering around to Batman, to try and score a front seat ride on that when the park officially opens (at 10am). However, we were not permitted to leave Southwest Territory until the official opening of the park .. I had not been expecting this, but wasn't terribly surprised. The staff who was holding us back was being friendly .. chatting away about this and that, for the 5 or so minutes until 10:00. Well, it's only about a 5 minute walk to Batman .. but by the time we got there the line was already about 20 minutes long! Yes folks, we're in for a busy, busy day (expected by all four of us..). Batman pretty much rules most severely, and kicked Bull's butt all the way out of the park! (It's hard to imagine these two were designed by the same company .. they're so totally different). We walked on over to Ragin Cajun (which none of us had ridden yet), but it was still closed. There was staff milling about the station so we all assumed it would be up soon, however the lift was not yet running so it wouldn't be *very* soon! Since the Rapids ride was right there, I suggested a ride on that... Even though I don't like getting wet I do sort of like Rapids rides, since they do so much more than most of the log/boat rides. Unfortunately I always end up getting far more soaked than anyone else, simply because I don't actually want to. Well, that certainly held true for this ride! The thing which really did me in were the geysers, which were operated by a cruel and evil little female ride-op sitting at a small console hidden in the trees. She looked right at me as our raft rounded the corner, and quite deliberately mashed her fist down on the buttons! I got several large loads of water dumped on my head ... The boys were in absolute hysterics, and I was just groaning. (Don't worry, I was honestly having a really fun time). I was clearly the wettest out of the four of us, with the boys just slightly more than damp! As we were climbing out of the raft, Parker asked the op if he could go around again. Well, no-one can say no to this boy (and the line was completely empty), so we were back in the raft! Matt and Caleb decided they'd had enough, but since I was already soaked I kept Parker company on his re-ride (he adores water rides - what kid doesn't?!). We were relatively unscathed for the first half of the ride, however all that changed when we rounded the Corner Of Doom.. The ride-op working the geysers looked right at me and cocked her head to the side .. her expression simply said "didn't you learn from the last time?!". Suddenly the water all around us erupted, as several ocean-loads were dumped on our heads .. Parker claimed he could still hear her hitting the buttons as we continued out of range .. I was to busy laughing! "I wonder when she goes on break?!" Parker said, as he punched his right fist into is open left hand! Fun stuff! When we got off the ride and caught up with Matt and Caleb, we tried to hug both of them, but they were on to us and backed (ran) away! We were *wet* .. parts of my body were wet that I didn't even know I had... We walked over to Ragin Cajun, which was now testing (well, Matt and Caleb walked .. Parker and I sort of splodged..!). There were only about five people waiting near the entrance, so we started to wait next to them .. against a little fence near a garden. Other people started to wait behind us. We waited about 30 minutes for the ride to open .. much to the annoyance of the ride-op who was at the entrance. "This isn't a line! You can't line-up out here!". She was getting surprisingly annoyed at ten or twenty people waiting happily out of the way .. I mean we weren't blocking the midway, or shops, or other ride entrances/exits. Heck, no-one was even sitting on the little fence! It was all just a little bit strange .... but quickly forgotten once they opened the ride. This was the first time any of us had ridden Ragun Cajun (which is a spinning wild-mouse). The only other spinning mouse I'd ridden was Exterminator at Kennywood - which I thoroughly enjoyed. What a fun ride! I had heard reports that it spins far too much, but it was just spot-on. I don't think I have ever laughed more on a ride than I did during this .. All four of us were in fits of laughter the whole way through - even during the non-spinning portions. This was just the perfect ride for us at that moment .. we were already so completely slap-happy, and the ride just added to it. The ride-op waiting for us to exit the car got a bit annoyed, since we were having trouble exiting (due to laughter). To be honest, most of the ride was a bit of a blur .. due to the unbelievable laughter the four of us were infected with. What a great addition to the park! After the mouse, we got our free lunch .. pretty standard park food, but it was a nice break from the already crowded midways (it was noon). We were all given a goodie bag full of some nice things .. pens, key-rings, a HUGE mug (with photos of Batman, Eagle, Viper and Demon). All the stuff in the bag was specific for Six Flags Great America, which I found interesting after the recent conversations here. It was all obviously old crap that they wanted to get ride of, but I still though it was a nice little collection of stuff (the mug in particular). Parker and I had to leave after lunch (well, I had to leave, Parker didn't want to stay with such heavy crowds). I really had a wonderful morning there! It was nice just to go and have so much fun with four boys I've been watching grow up over the last 7 or 8 years. It was also fun to be one of them, rather than the responsible adult! OK, this quick little trip report has already grown too large ... I will quit now so you don't all fall asleep! Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Yellow, Black * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** and Rectangular * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sun Jul 11 15:11:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85061 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 22:11:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 22:11:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 22:11:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2004 22:11:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:11:00 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2637 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, George Burnash wrote: > So we headed over to this parks version of Ninja, which I believe is > another Vekoma model similar to SFStL's version. In far to many ways. > Ouch. Not good, my shoulders and neck hurt, and that was enough. dear god, you started the day with Ninja?!? bad! bad george! > Right next door to it was the Great American Scream Machine, which looked > incredible with it's new paint and the setting. If it rode half as good > as it looked, it would be a fun ride....Unfortunately, the coaster didn't ride anywhere near as good as it > looked. whats really sad is that last year it was running great. how the hell does a coaster fall apart like that after one season?! oh right, its a SF park. unless i missed it, where did you ride on it? >Again, summer Saturday, except during the week. > Why it was like this here and at Dollywood, I don't have a clue. But it > was crazy, with me even overhearing a couple of the workers muttering > about how many people were there. ive noticed that too at SFOG. seems the earlier in the season, the better. ive been there in march when its been almost vacant. after the schools let out, every day is bad there. where there a lot of kids and teenagers there? >> Getting off of Superman (finally) ah, how little has changed from last year, i see. > Georgia Cyclone is the other Cyclone clone that I've heard is supposed to > be pretty good ... To bad it didn't ride like it. last year i swore was my last time on that thing. it did have the best t-shirt design though, so its not all bad...i guess. > Thanfully, that wasn't > the case here as Scorcher was a lot of fun. It was a bit short, but the > pacing, elements, and intensity were all where I like it. Really, the > only thing I could knock it on was that when it ended, we wanted more of > it. i gotta say the whole standup thing is a big letdown for me. Scorcher i found really bland, and the standing aspect doesnt really seem to add anything to it. >(Mindbender) This is one excellent, fantastic coaster. The > landscaping around it is wonderfully done, and the coaster is a tremendous > ride to boot. i wish you could have ridden it at night-the lighting is really neat. > Overall, SFoG was a nice park, and one that we really felt tried to give > us a good time. wow, thats a perfect description of SFOG. its like its trying to be a gracious host, but its owners wont help out. hopefully you guys will try it again in the future-just go as early in the season as you can next time! From afrsandy@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 16:54:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48803 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 23:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 23:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp011.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.31) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 23:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp011.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 23:54:44 -0000 To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 19:54:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.173.31 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: MISC: Toyota & Universal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Has anyone seen the new partnership marketing program between Universal and Toyota? They have had taglines like it will be hard for you to tell the difference between the car and the coaster, your drive to Florida was never so fun, etc. I think it is a very good pairing for both of them and it will be interesting to see other programs like this. Does anyone know if Disney has something along these lines? Personally, I think if Six Flags were smart they would do some sort of program with a domestic car brand and talk about how you can take an American car America's largest theme park chain. But then again, that's if Six Flags were smart. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From gburnash@earthlink.net Sun Jul 11 17:03:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23247 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 00:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 00:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 00:03:29 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-247.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.247] helo=Laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BjoHz-0002w2-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:03:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:02:36 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <20040711152028.15752.qmail@buzzneon.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20040711152028.15752.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.50 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:20:28 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > > Hey George, > > Another great report! Six Flags Over Georgia was on my plan for a while, > but it was just a little too far out of the way. I'd love to go there.. Thanks for the compliment! Happy to know that you're enjoying them. :) > >> We arrived in Atlanta Tuesday night and checked in at the Ramada one >> exit >> away from Six Flags. This turned out to be the most expensive hotel that >> we stayed at, and also provided by far the worst stay of any of them. > > Two words: Hampton Inn! One word: booked! Atlanta was a major pain to find a hotel anywhere near the park as it seemed that most of them were booked solid when I was trying to get one. I ended up having to resorting to calling the individual hotels directly until I finally found a room. Normally though I've had very good luck with hotels. I use the TripRewards reward program which works with a large number of hotel chains, and had some very, very nice rooms at great rates. This was almost the only time on the trip that I branched out of that, and so that's what happened. Ah well, every other room on the trip was at least decent, if not better. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Sun Jul 11 17:03:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94279 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 00:03:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 00:03:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 00:03:30 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-247.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.247] helo=Laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BjoI3-0002w2-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:03:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:03:18 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.50 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Brief TR: Knott's Berry Farm, 7/8/04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:12:56 -0000, adamnvillani wrote: > As a result, it was a chance to look at Knott's with a fairly fresh > view and ride some of the big new rides I hadn't been on. First stop > was Ghost Rider, only my second time on it and everyone else's > first. The wait was about 35 minutes, our longest queue of the day. > Consensus is that it totally rocks, overall the best ride in the > park (Xcelerator is close). More than likely you got one of the rare good rides that it delivers. But for those that have been on it over the last few years, I think most are agreed that Ghostrider is nowhere near the coaster that it was the first 2-3 years that it was open. For a short time it was up in my top 10, but the way it's run the last couple it's been down in the middle to bottom. It has been far rougher and more painful than it ever used to be. So if you got a good ride, great for you! > some weird thing called the Gr8 Sk8 that's like a > big see-saw with a car that slides between them. Gr8 Sk8 is the smaller, kids version of what is called XScream on top of the Stratosphere. yeah, by itself like that, the ride doesn't look like much (though the kids absolutely love it), but put it nearly 1000 feet in the air and have that front end drop you of over the side of the building, and you've got one frightening ride! :) > Then the Supreme Scream, which I hadn't been on. Pretty > spectacular... once you get up to the top, you're REALLY, REALLY > high! It's like you're away from everything else, it gets quiet, you > hear the wind... and then you fall a long way. I don't think that there are to many taller than it. Maybe a couple. It is a lot of fun, and you get a great view of the surrounding area. Depending on what side you sit on, you can see Disneyland from the top on most days. > Then the Xcelerator, also new to me. Wow. GR is a more complete > ride, but this is the biggest blast of adrenaline. I think it also > lends itself to more re-rides, since it's so smooth. Very simply- I love Xcelerator. With Ghosty's current condition, this gets my vote for best ride in the park. Have to wait and see how Silver Bullet turns out. > Unfortunately, the Haunted > Shack has passed into the land of beyond; I always thought that was > the most charming thing at Knott's, with the water that flows > uphill, pool balls that all fall in one pocket, etc. Sorry to see it > go. What's even worse is what has happened with the site that it used to sit on. That's where Knott's put in the Vertigo tower ride, then ripped out after Cedar Point screwed up on how they took it apart for the winter and it fell over on them in a winter storm. They could have left it and done a little work, but instead chose to waste the money, and now it's just an empty lot with a few picnic tables sitting there. Sad, sad, sad. > Then to Kingdom of the Dinosaurs, KBF's cheesy dark ride that I > still feel compelled to ride any time I visit. They've changed > around the operation of the ride so that the cars all run through as > a train, and it comes to a complete stop for embarking/disembarking. > That seemed pretty weird; maybe there were problems with disabled > people, and maybe it's easier to keep on eye on kids causing > problems if everybody goes through at once. > The excuse was the disable access. The truth is they like to put a monitor at the end of the trains. This is another one that Cedar Fair has screwed up big time since they took over the park, and at this point, the ride would be better off being scrapped than in the horrible condition it's in where you get 2 10 minute long stops during the ride. Ugggg. > After that it was a night ride on the Ghost Rider (still great) and > one last trip on Xcelerator as the park was closing. All told, a fun > day for all... Knott's and Cedar Fair obviously care about their > customers, and they even do their best to keep prices reasonable and > the food good. The only real negative was the loss of the Haunted > Shack. Happy to hear that you had a good day at the park. I would agree that Knott's cares, but there is a lot at the park that is nowhere near the quality that it used to be. Thankfully, it sounds like you missed some of them (e.g. Perilous Plunge, the train, same western stunt show for 5+ years now without a new script, lower quality ride ops, etc...) When you can catch those days that you don't run into all of that, Knott's can be a great park, and it sounds like that's the Knott's that you got. I just wish I had seen that more often from the park the last couple of years. > with a name like Silver Bullet, wouldn't you expect the > color scheme to be something other than Red and Blue? Trust me, a lot of people have been wondering and asking the same thing. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From gburnash@earthlink.net Sun Jul 11 17:03:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55980 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 00:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 00:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 00:03:54 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool15-247.nas9.clearwater1.fl.us.da.qwest.net ([65.130.15.247] helo=Laptop) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BjoI1-0002w2-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:03:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:03:17 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.50 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] RE: TR: SFStL and an Interlude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:23:56 -0400, Adam Sandy wrote: > First off, sorry I couldn't meet up with you, George. Hopefully you got > my > email... I did get it. Sorry I didn't get a reply to you, but my connections were spotty enough that by the time I got a solid enough one to send you a reply, it was a bit to late. :( But I did use your recommendations. > That's been my mantra for years. The amazing thing is that they > reprofiled > all the turns and the double-down and still can't find a little money to > keep it in decent shape. As you've seen from the collection of TR's now, that seems to be typical of the chain. Cedar Fair tends to butcher their wood coasters, Six Flags just doesn't give them the basic TLC that they need. In both cases, it results in a coaster that could be very good ending up being in pretty sad shape. Which is just to bad. >> Lunch at the Mooseburger came next, and we got there and under shelter >> just > in time for the sky to really open up and let >> loose. > > When did St. Louis get a Mooseburger? Does anyone know what it replaced? According to the map, this is the first year for it in the park. It sites in the Chouteau's Market section, with the slingshot and train robbery show accross the walkways from it. > I know that over time souvenirs have gotten cheaper and more generic. > Some > of the stuff I have seen from the 70's were nice glasses, plates and > other > items. I am wondering if parks just find that people don't buy amusement > park souvenirs anymore. And if they do, perhaps they only want the shirt > because it has Superman or Batman on it with the park as an afterthought, > instead of the park being the impetuous of the purchase. I would be > curious > to talk with some park merchandising people and see what their thoughts > are. If you ever do, please let us know what they say. I would be fascinated. Especially in light of the boatloads of stuff that I saw people walking out of Silver Dollar City and Dollywood with simply because they actually had a good variety of different shops and things. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. But with God, life is one neverending Thrillride! From bethtoons@gmail.com Sun Jul 11 21:25:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36900 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 04:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 04:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.241) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 04:25:22 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so355557cwb for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.38 with SMTP id v38mr78942cwb; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071121253f09063d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:25:22 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.241 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:11:56 -0700, George Burnash wrote: > The Crowds: Lots of them. What the heck? It's Wednesday people! Go to > work! :P > $50 later, I had a qbot in hand, and had it quickly queued up for most of > the rest of the coasters that we wanted to catch. Put very simply, if it > hadn't been for the qbot, there is absolutely no way that it would have > been possible for us to catch the rest of the coasters at the park today. > None. We might have caught 2 more, but by 2pm, even the flats had lines > of 30 minutes or more. Again, summer Saturday, except during the week. > Why it was like this here and at Dollywood, I don't have a clue. But it > was crazy, with me even overhearing a couple of the workers muttering > about how many people were there. It was also the week following a holiday. I suspect a lot of people had Monday off because of the Sunday holiday (like I did) so you caught a lot of the folks who took the whole short week off instead of the minority of us who just used the extra day to extend a previous week's vacation. From the sounds of your TRs from the week after the 4th, I'm glad I chose the week I chose to take my trip as I had very few problems with crowded parks. Sorry to hear about your phone. It still sounds like your trip was an overall good one though, and I'm looking forward to reading the last report once you've gotten it done... Guess I should hurry up and finish mine before I leave again :P Beth From bethtoons@gmail.com Sun Jul 11 21:41:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39476 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 04:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 04:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.245) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 04:41:24 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so355765cwb for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.20 with SMTP id u20mr79309cwc; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071121416ee9cce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:41:24 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040711220624.18854.qmail@buzzneon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040711220624.18854.qmail@buzzneon.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.245 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Trip Report: Fat Saturday - Six Flags Great America (July 10th 2004) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:06:24 -0500 (CDT), cameron@buzzneon.com wrote: > > Event: Fat Saturday - A.C.E. Regional event > Location: Six Flags Great America > Weather: Perfect > Date: Saturday morning, July 10th > Crowds: Less than 150 people at the event > Even still, the geekage at this event was just off the scale! While > waiting, with about 50 other cars, for the parking lot gates to > open .. Parker and I witnessed a man, probably in his 40's, skipping > down the line of cars .. arms flailing .. shrieking "THE GATES ARE > OPENING! THE GATES ARE OPENING!!". Even Parker rolled his eyes and > muttered "Oh my god" .. and when a 12 year old is embarrassed for > a grown man, then something must terribly be wrong. This was the > first in a string of 'eye-rolling' occurrences that we witnessed > in just the two hour long ride-time session.. Hah! I'm almost sorry I missed it. Except that I slept in until noon on Saturday... ;) I was starting to forget what it was like to have a non-park weekend... I am curious to hear about some of the other 'eye-rolling occurances' though... just because it's been weeks since I've been to an event :P > Since the Rapids ride > was right there, I suggested a ride on that... > Who are you and what have you done with Cameron? I'm not so much surprised that you rode it, but SUGGESTED it? Are you feeling ok? > We were all given a goodie bag full of some nice things .. pens, > key-rings, a HUGE mug (with photos of Batman, Eagle, Viper and Demon). > All the stuff in the bag was specific for Six Flags Great America, > which I found interesting after the recent conversations here. It > was all obviously old crap that they wanted to get ride of, but I > still though it was a nice little collection of stuff (the mug in > particular). Heh... And how many SFGAm magnets do you have on your fridge, Cam? It sounds like I missed out on a semi-decent event and a fun morning anyway even if it sounds like the park filled up fast otherwise. Beth From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 22:00:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39026 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 05:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 05:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 05:00:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.158] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 05:00:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 05:00:28 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 997 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: Yomiuriland, Tokyo Japan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sandy" wrote: > >Each one made me think I was about to leave the train, but the OTSR's were > actually very comfortable, and I experienced no > >pain. Yes, it's really a TOGO! Although not top ten, this was actually an > incredible coaster, and I liked that it kept > >getting faster as it went. I can't think of too many other coasters that > pull that off. (Thunderbolt, KW being one) > > Thanks for the (snipped) description. I have wanted to hear a first-hand > account for quite some time. When I first started reading about coasters > (circa the early 90's) I always heard what a great ride this was. But, > since Magnum opened shortly after Bandit it seemed to garner most of the > media's attention. It is probably the coaster I most want to get on in > Japan. > > Adam Wait until you read about Fujiyama! I went back yesterday, and like cam and Thunderhead, you'll have to wait to hear about it... :) Chris From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 22:14:59 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63044 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 05:14:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 05:14:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 05:14:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 05:14:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 05:14:18 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1031 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: Smaller Tokyo Parks Whirlwind Part 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sandy" wrote: > >The only items of real note were the Carousel with it's El Dorado name and > it's Carribbean pirate / Spanish main theme in > >real wood carved pieces, the Toys R Us (huh?) on the park grounds, and the > 1965 steel coaster, Cyclone. > > Did the carousel look anything like this: > > http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/coneyisland/articles/images/stp- carousel.jpg > > ? > > If so, then it was the El Dorado Carousel was from Steeplechase Park. I > know a Japanese consortium bought it after the park closed, but I never > heard where it went. > > Adam Maybe, but the colorized post card doesn't help a lot. :) The colors were muted browns, oranges, grays, etc, and it was a very large diameter carousel, perhaps as much as 80 feet from one side to the other. It may have been the same one, but I don't feel confident either way. I need to go back and bring my camera this time anyway, I'll bring my GF to translate, and let you know. Chris From GaMndbndr@mindspring.com Mon Jul 12 05:40:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: GaMndbndr@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29176 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 12:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 12:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 12:40:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.145] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 12:39:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:39:25 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040711152028.15752.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 729 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: GaMndbndr@mindspring.com X-Originating-IP: 12.155.204.195 Subject: Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63385192 X-Yahoo-Profile: gamndbndr --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, cameron@b... wrote: > > Hey George, > > Another great report! Six Flags Over Georgia was on my plan for a while, > but it was just a little too far out of the way. I'd love to go there.. > > > We arrived in Atlanta Tuesday night and checked in at the Ramada one exit > > away from Six Flags. This turned out to be the most expensive hotel that > > we stayed at, and also provided by far the worst stay of any of them. > > Two words: Hampton Inn! 6 more words: Never Stay on Fulton Industrial Blvd. While one exit across the river from the park, it's a totally different world. Only the Travelodge has tried to upgrade their facilities above a "truck stop" level. From jay@karenandjay.com Mon Jul 12 08:41:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50999 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 15:41:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 15:41:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 15:41:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:42:20 -0700 Message-Id: <200407120842.AA1301545102@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: MISC: New t-shirts posted X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme Hi folks. I've just posted a new set of amusement park t-shirts at our website. I'm amazed at how many Cedar Point shirts we've acquired! Maybe I should start actually wearing some of them. > http:www.karenandjay.com < Just click on the coaster picture, and then the t-shirt picture. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From spartankicker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 09:20:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: spartankicker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7925 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web81709.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.140) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 16:20:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20040712162020.82149.qmail@web81709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.229.171.66] by web81709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:20 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:20:20 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.140 From: Bryan Wood Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120409146 X-Yahoo-Profile: spartankicker --- George Burnash wrote: > Right next door to it was the Great American Scream > Machine, which looked > incredible with it's new paint and the setting. > Unfortunately, the coaster didn't ride anywhere near > as good as it > looked. What could have been, and should have been, > a great ride, was not > nearly so because of a lot of shuffling, > jackhammering, and shaking around > that the coaster didn't have to do. GASM was the biggest dissapointment at SFoG for me last year. I tried it in the front and back and it was just sick, because the ride looks like it could give some great airtime. GA Cyclone was just the opposite, it ran with no trims. It's still in my Top 5 wooden coasters. It was wild and full of airtime, so I'm sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it that much. Mindbender, along with Acrophobia, are without a doubt the best rides in the park. There is no a bad seat on Mindbender, and the ride had much more airtime than I thought! It's amazing how this ride runs better than 95-98% of the steel coasters that have been erected after it was built. I agree with your assessment of the park in terms of it trying to give you a good time. I lucked out and went in March when the crowds weren't bad, and I enjoyed myself quite a bit. It's still my favorite SF park. -Bryan ===== I'm Bryan Wood, and I approve of this message. spartankicker@yahoo.com From aelk2004@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 09:24:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49495 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 16:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 16:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 16:24:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.253] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 16:24:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:24:45 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 330 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: MISC: Fair Pics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sandy" wrote: SNIP > > http://kermissite.nl/ks/index.php?showtopic=4668 > http://www.kermisweb.nl/nieuws/kmg/kmg.html > > Pictures of KMG's foray into the upcharge world and their new "giant" ride. > Seems like an awful-lot of machine for just 8 people! -Alan From aelk2004@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 09:36:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74248 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 16:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 16:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 16:36:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 16:35:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:35:19 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 650 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: TR: Worlds of Fun; C-N-C X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, George wrote: > SNIP > For example, some in Phoenix > slamming Castle's and Coasters for being an oversized mini-golf area > instead of a full blown theme park like Six Flags or Cedar Point, as if > they have the budget, space, or even desire to be that. But in to many > cases, people seem to expect that of every park. Hey! I resemble that remark! ;p But, you're right. I'm the first one to slam & defend C-N-C. I guess it's better than nothing? Speaking of such... There are still persistant rumors about a major Park being built in Arizona. Has anyone heard anything? -Alan From afrsandy@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 11:17:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55540 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 18:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 18:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52902.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.179) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 18:17:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20040712181739.45480.qmail@web52902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:17:39 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:17:39 -0700 (PDT) To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.179 From: Adam Sandy Subject: NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Breasts are indecent? Thank God Ashcroft covered those concrete funbags... Adam http://www.wbns10tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2007656&nav=LUEROX2o Columbus Breast Feeding Brouhaha A dispute over breastfeeding in public has pitted a west Columbus woman against Wyandot Lake. Many people may be unaware that breastfeeding in public is legal in Ohio, but some mothers will tell you, even when people do know it, they don't like it. New mother Amy Watson-Grace says, "I was humiliated, intimidated, embarrassed. My daughter was frightened." Watson-Grace says she was repeatedly asked to stop breastfeeding her 4-week-old son during a weekend visit to Wyandot Lake after a security guard told her someone had complained. "He said he had to protect his patrons from indecent exposure, and that's when I went on my soapbox about how breastfeeding is not indecent exposure. Look around you, there are people in bathing suits baring far more flesh than I am," says Watson-Grace. Watson-Grace says, "He said, 'Well could you please feed him in the bathroom?' And I asked him, would you eat your dinner in the bathroom? It's not a very clean place. And he said, of course not." Things escalated to the point where Amy says she was surrounded by five security guards so she called the sheriff saying she'd been harassed. Nobody from Wyandot Lake would go on camera, but they faxed 10TV a statement that reads they allow mothers to breastfeed, but "ask that they be discreet out of respect to" other guests. For now, Watson-Grace's daughter Eva will be swimming in the pool in the backyard. She says she doesn't understand how things got so out of hand. "I think it's inappropriate to tell someone they can't breast feed, because it's the most natural, most healthy, best thing in the world for a baby. But number two, if you're going to speak to someone about this issue, you know, if somebody's feeling uncomfortable about it, this is not the way to go about it," says Watson-Grace Twenty states have specific laws about where women can breastfeed, but Ohio is not one of them. ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From gburnash@earthlink.net Mon Jul 12 11:33:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55209 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 18:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 18:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 18:32:45 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bk5bY-0004HN-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:32:45 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:32:43 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <20040712181739.45480.qmail@web52902.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040712181739.45480.qmail@web52902.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.123 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:17:39 -0700 (PDT), Adam Sandy wrote: > > http://www.wbns10tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2007656&nav=LUEROX2o > > Columbus > Breast Feeding Brouhaha > > A dispute over breastfeeding in public has pitted a > west Columbus woman against Wyandot Lake. I always wonder a bit when we basically get one side of the story, as is basically happening in this case, with only the woman's point of view being represented. First- let me make clear that I have no problems with a woman breatfeeding her babes in public. It's natural, it's normal. And there's nothing wrong with it. But that also assumes that a woman is using at least a little judgement and being a bit discreet about it. I was at a park one time, and a woman had taken off all her clothing on top, and was using breastfeeding as an excuse to bare all. That, I would think, was obviously accross the line. I would imagine that this woman was nowhere near that flagrant, but I do wonder, if it was enough to have people complaining and get 5 security gaurds on her, was she truly being very discreet, or at least decent about it? Or is there more to this story that is not being said in the article about how she was "presenting" herself while feeding her baby. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From afrsandy@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 12:42:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84163 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 19:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 19:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52905.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.182) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 19:42:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20040712194249.28779.qmail@web52905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:42:49 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:42:49 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.182 From: Adam Sandy Subject: Re: NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > I always wonder a bit when we basically get one side > of the story, as is > basically happening in this case, with only the > woman's point of view > being represented. I have a feeling that Six Flags simply responding with a fax says quite a lot about their pov. Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From dougjnelson@comcast.net Mon Jul 12 13:00:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53569 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 20:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 20:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 20:00:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.156] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 20:00:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:00:25 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 394 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, GaMndbndr@m... wrote: > 6 more words: > Never Stay on Fulton Industrial Blvd. > > While one exit across the river from the park, it's a totally > different world. Only the Travelodge has tried to upgrade their > facilities above a "truck stop" level. we made the same mistake last year. calling the area a "hood" isnt too far off base either. From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 14:05:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83592 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 21:05:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 21:05:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 21:05:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 21:03:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:03:15 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 576 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: News and question for Orange County X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani News: Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland had another accident last Thursday. It seems one train crashed into another at the station: http://www.mouseplanet.com/btmrr_accident/index.htm Question: Anybody have any idea which rides they've got at the Orange County Fair? The RCSfun.com website shows all of their rides and what *may* be at the different fairs, but doesn't list was necessarily *is* at any particular fair. Are the coasters, dark rides, etc. (i.e., the non-spinning rides) worth going for? Adam (the one who doesn't like the spinning flat rides) From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 14:11:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5519 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 21:11:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 21:11:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 21:11:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.160] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2004 21:10:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:10:50 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 380 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: News and question for Orange County X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani I wrote: > Are the coasters, dark > rides, etc. (i.e., the non-spinning rides) worth going for? Just as a general question, how are the portable dark rides? I've never been on one. I see rcsfun.com has several listed on their site. Are they only good for kids, or is they entertaining for adults, too? Also, I can take carousels and Ferris wheels but not much more... Adam From rumors@absolutelyreliable.com Mon Jul 12 14:44:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: rumors@absolutelyreliable.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26154 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 21:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 21:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO meson.liquidweb.com) (64.91.249.99) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 21:44:27 -0000 Received: from tumbleweed.wc.com ([64.241.29.196] helo=WCHILDS) by meson.liquidweb.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Bk8Xr-0002ii-1S for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:41:07 -0400 Message-ID: <00e201c46858$f59ffc50$6b0c10ac@wc.com> To: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:41:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - meson.liquidweb.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - absolutelyreliable.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.91.249.99 From: "Absolutely Reliable News and Rumors" Subject: TR: PKD 7/11/04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=131811069 X-Yahoo-Profile: childs.rm For our honeymoon (in 1994) we went to SFGAm, PKI, CP, Kennywood, and Noah's Ark in the Dells. For our tenth anniversary, among other things, my wife got a babysitter so we could go to PKD all day without kids. We hadn't been to a park without our kids since our daughter was born (five years ago), so this was a nice change. The weather was really freakin' hot (they kept reminding us of the weather advisory on the PR system) and crowds were surprisingly light, perhaps as a result of the heat. The longest line we faced was a mid-day wait for Volcano of probably 30 minutes. We went straight for Volcano when we got there; it was a walk-on for anything but the front row, for which we waited probably three cycles. I had been to PKD once before, in 2001 for the media day of Hypersonic: XLC, which I wrote about for Thrillride. (Archived copy sans photos here: http://web.archive.org/web/20011012100235/www.thrillride.com/Ridereviews/hypersonic/hypersonic.php.) Relatively little was running that day, and given the fact that H:XLC was barely running itself, I didn't ride anything besides it, Hurler, and Rebel Yell frontwards. At that time, I rather liked Hurler, but heard some very negative things about how it's aged and so I didn't ride it again yesterday. Rebel Yell I thought was fine and pretty back then; yesterday I got to ride it backwards and enjoyed it, although I have some pain today that I attribute to an unpleasant jackhammering at the bottom of the first drop. We did not ride H:XLC; it had a pretty long line and Dena was a bit freaked out watching it. I enjoyed it last time quite a bit and didn't want to ruin the memory, nor did I feel like waiting forever. We had a fun time. PKD is, I would say, somewhere between Six Flags and Busch in operations and attractiveness. It's a pleasant park, albeit heavy on the blacktop, but nothing like BGW -- nor is it trying to be, to be fair. Operations are quite good. I think every single coaster was running multiple trains all day, even when there were no lines (e.g. Grizzly), and loading and unloading procedures were efficient and friendly. Other than FOF, I didn't notice any obtrusive mid-course brakes. I guess Anaconda had some, but it didn't make the ride suck any more than it already did. So, for the stuff that was new yesterday, here's what I've put on our website. I rate 1-5 and try to compare coasters within types -- inverted coasters to inverted coasters, hypers to hypers, etc. Coasters that I think are particularly good or special to me get a * -- not usually an indication that they're better than other 5s, but that I liked them extra for some reason. Volcano: The Blast Coaster: Steel inverted launched coaster (Intamin) (1998) -- 5*. This is a great and, so far as I know, utterly unique coaster. Decently-themed (though inside the "volcano" you mostly feel like you're in, well, a large fiberglass mountain), intense, smooth, and fun as hell. Dena screamed and screamed. That was fun. Flight of Fear: Steel launched indoor (Premier) (1996) -- 4. This was the first of these I'd ridden without the over-the-shoulder restraints, and it made it more fun. The midcourse brake was on pretty strong, though, and made the second part of the course a little dull. I was also disappointed in how much light there really was in the "dark" part. Still, fun theming and the lack of headbanging was great. We haven't bought an on-ride photo since 1994, but we bought one here; Dena was (again!) screaming rather enthusiastically and I was grinning maniacally. Grizzly: Wooden double figure-8 (In-house) (1982) -- 4. Only rode it once, but it was fun. Some decent pops of air, a nice setting (though it was probably nicer when more fully surrounded by trees), and a good tunnel. And no line. Or brakes. Rebel Yell: Wooden dual-track out-and-back (one track backwards) (Philadelphia Toboggan Co.) (1975) -- 4 (upgraded from a previous 3). Nothing shockingly great about it, but it's a reasonably well-maintained brake-free (at least that I noticed) pretty coaster. Anaconda: Steel multi-looper (Arrow) (1991) -- 2. Ouch! I like the tunnel into the lake, and a pretty setting, but did I mention: Ouch! I don't understand why Arrow hired howler monkeys on methamphetamine to design their transitions. Ouch. Avalanche: Bobsled (Mack) (1988) -- 4. I really wish there were great bobsleds out there, but these are good enough to be fun. It doesn't seem to have as many of the brake/get-you-all-lined-up spots as some of them I recall, so I like that. Plus there was a really cute kid talking about how many times she'd ridden it. I rode the Intamin gyro drop "Drop Zone" and liked it quite a bit; it was better and taller than most of the drop rides I've been on (an admittedly short list). I think that was it; we were only there for about five hours and did a fair amount of just walking around and sitting in air conditioning. We ate okay food at Bubba Gump's and pretty good pizza (especially compared to what we had at Dutch Wonderland) at another place. -Bill From Cyclonic07@aol.com Mon Jul 12 15:03:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67283 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 22:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 22:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 22:03:23 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.83.105a6b6a (17377) for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 18:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83.105a6b6a.2e2464a8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 18:03:20 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.9 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/2004 2:19:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, afrsandy@yahoo.com writes: "He said he had to protect his patrons from indecent exposure, and that's when I went on my soapbox about how breastfeeding is not indecent exposure. Look around you, there are people in bathing suits baring far more flesh than I am," says Watson-Grace. *************************************************** To me it sounds more like she was looking to pick a fight here. I mean, really, how hard is it to simply go someplace private to do that. If not the restroom (and I totally understand why), how about out to your car. It is indecent when there are alternatives available. I know, let the flaming commence on this one. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Mon Jul 12 15:13:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57013 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 22:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 22:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 22:13:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 30415 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Jul 2004 22:13:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20040712221349.30414.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:13:49 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <83.105a6b6a.2e2464a8@aol.com> from "Cyclonic07@aol.com" at Jul 12, 2004 06:03:20 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > To me it sounds more like she was looking to pick a fight here. I mean, > really, how hard is it to simply go someplace private to do that. Well, should shouldn't have been there in the first place .. I mean, is an amusement park really an appropriate place for an infant?? Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** I healed * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** A piano??! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From spartankicker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 15:39:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: spartankicker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6180 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 22:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 22:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web81702.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.133) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 22:38:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20040712223850.54902.qmail@web81702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.109.2.30] by web81702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:38:50 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:38:50 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.133 From: Bryan Wood Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: Worlds of Fun; C-N-C X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120409146 X-Yahoo-Profile: spartankicker > Speaking of such... There are still persistant > rumors about a major > Park being built in Arizona. Has anyone heard > anything? > -Alan I've heard rumors, but nothing legit. Haven't heard much from Titan Thrills, who wanted to build a park in the Phoenix area a year or two ago. I'd really like to see one built, especially since I'm moving to Peoria, AZ in three weeks. I guess a 5-5.5 hour drive to Knott's will be my closest major park...at least the AZ State Fair has RCS rides, so that'll be nice for a few weeks... -Bryan ===== I'm Bryan Wood, and I approve of this message. spartankicker@yahoo.com From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 18:04:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99570 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 01:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 01:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 01:04:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 01:04:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:04:14 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 294 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: News and question for Orange County X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani Talking with myself again: > Just as a general question, how are the portable dark rides? Upon further inspection, it appears the things I thought were portable dark rides (Creep Show, Moscow Circus, Mardi Gras, etc.) are funhouses. I think. I'm not really sure. Anybody tried these? Adam From afrsandy@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 18:31:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98982 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 01:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 01:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 01:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 01:31:20 -0000 To: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:31:16 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.225 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Re: News and question for Orange County X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >Upon further inspection, it appears the things I thought were portable dark rides (Creep Show, Moscow Circus, Mardi Gras, >etc.) are funhouses. I think. I'm not really sure. Anybody tried these? They're fun, but I wouldn't say anything earth-shattering. Taking out flat rides, some other things on the midway are: 2 Eli Wheels Fabbri Booster (kind of a flat ride...) Maurer Soehne Spinning Coaster Miler Hi Miler Coaster Dodgems Fabbri Euro slide Bussink La Grande Wheel (largest portable wheel in the US) Fabbri Mega Drop Sky ride (Hopkins) Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From ksucy@eznet.net Mon Jul 12 18:54:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: ksucy@eznet.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44841 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 01:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 01:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail03.ext.ispc.xtelegent.net) (209.105.132.223) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 01:54:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail03.ext.ispc.xtelegent.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14AE3E1C95 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:54:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail03.ext.ispc.xtelegent.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail03.ispc.xtelegent.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 41851-532 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:54:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (adsl-ftr05-164.roc.netacc.net [208.34.111.164]) by mail03.ext.ispc.xtelegent.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E4A3E1C9E for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:54:25 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ksucy@popmail.eznet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040712221349.30414.qmail@buzzneon.com> References: <20040712221349.30414.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:54:23 -0400 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ispc.xtelegent.net X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.105.132.223 From: Shilfiell Nels Rada Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=21726974 X-Yahoo-Profile: shilfiell_nels_rada > > To me it sounds more like she was looking to pick a fight here. I mean, >> really, how hard is it to simply go someplace private to do that. > >Well, should shouldn't have been there in the first place .. I mean, is >an amusement park really an appropriate place for an infant?? Maybe it was a family outing, and the infant was part of the family? What if a mom wants to bring her older children to the park but can't get a sitter for the infant? And as far as it being easy to go someplace private to "do that" .... I think it's probably easier for people to avert their eyes if a legal, defensible, purposeful action offends them. If baring chests bothers people, shouldn't all males be wearing shirts in the waterparks? If I complained that the naked male torso offended me, would someone tell them to cover up? There's no real reason for men to go shirtless, and I don't think the rules should be unevenly applied. Parks wishing to avoid controversy could always provide clean, comfortable areas for breastfeeding - face it, seating is pretty important, and the majority of women would prefer such a setup. If there's nothing posted in the park rules about breastfeeding, I don't blame women at all for feeding their children when needed. Of course, maybe if parks could charge the infants for the unlimited beverage refills, there wouldn't be so much controversy. :) -trying not to flame anyone... -kimberly From cameron@buzzneon.com Mon Jul 12 19:32:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39109 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 02:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 02:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 02:32:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 32022 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2004 02:32:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713023229.32021.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:32:29 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Shilfiell Nels Rada" at Jul 12, 2004 09:54:23 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > > To me it sounds more like she was looking to pick a fight here. I mean, > >> really, how hard is it to simply go someplace private to do that. > > > >Well, should shouldn't have been there in the first place .. I mean, is > >an amusement park really an appropriate place for an infant?? > > Maybe it was a family outing, and the infant was part of the family? > What if a mom wants to bring her older children to the park but can't > get a sitter for the infant? Well, bad luck! The needs of the infant come first. I do actually agree that she should have been able to feed without all the fuss .. and I also agree that either women should be given the freedom of men (or make the men cover up more - which I wouldn't be too opposed to either!). I just think that a hot, crowded, noisy place is not somewhere appropriate for an infant. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Anarchy means crossing * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** when it says 'Don't Walk' * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From munkye1972@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 20:43:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35507 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 03:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 03:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 03:43:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 03:42:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 03:42:30 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 7058 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.102 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: TR: Fujikyu Highlands (part 2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 I made it back to Fujikyu this weekend as part of my effort to get=20 over 350 coasters (346 now) and was very happy to add Dodonpa and=20 Fujiyama to my list. I TR'd this park earlier this year, so I won't=20 get too in depth here, but these two rides really bring up my=20 estimation of this park.=20 I went with a coaster neophyte, (he went over 10 coasters this=20 weekend) so my jaded self had an impartial observer to assist. Dodonpa and Fujiyama's stations sit on opposite sides at the bottom=20 of Fujikyu's entrance plaza. Crowds were fairly heavy, and in 3 train operations with a launch=20 roughly every 2 minutes, Dodonpa was a 2 hour 45 minute wait. There=20 are four trains, each with a different "Crazy Family" face on the=20 nose cone. Sister's nose was sitting in the car barn, but the rest of=20 the train was nowhere to be seen, maybe it's getting the same tweak=20 that Hypersonic:XLC got last year. (Dodonpa is the big brother to=20 H:XLC.) Oddly, Dodonpa's subtitle remains "World Bucchigiri Coaster."=20 As we all know TTD is now the world bucchigiri coaster! (bucchigiri =3D=20 record) On the exit side of the station is a bank of lockers where you put=20 your stuff in, grab the key, and bring it with you. This keeps people=20 from taking your cell phone or other prohibited items while you are=20 on the train. (Sorry, George!) The trains are incredibly wide, possibly wide enough for 4 people=20 side-by-side, but there are only four rows of two, so throughput is=20 very low.=20 Restraints: There are no OTSR's but a series of three interconnected,=20 moving, heavily padded bars. The lap bar has handles to grab, the=20 bars across shins and ankles move into place when the lap bar is=20 moved. This is the first coaster in Japan where I was absolutely=20 stapled, but the softness of the padding kept me very comfortable. The loading and unloading stations are in line with one another, and=20 the train is rolled forward and around a right turn to the launch=20 position in side a long aluminum tunnel. Like every other launched=20 ride here in Japan there is a countdown, and as with most, it is in=20 English. Three=85 Two=85 One=85 Zero to106.9 MPH in 1.8 seconds. As with H:XLC, the launch is=20 explosive. If you haven't done either S&S Thrust Air, I liken it to=20 being kicked in the chest.=20 The launch track is very long, and very flat. The wind is much less=20 than Top Thrill Dragster, as there is a clear wind deflector on the=20 nose. However, unlike TTD and H:XLC, the first movement of the train=20 is DOWN! This gentle drop provides a long wonderful period of=20 floating air before entering a glass tunnel that masks the gentle=20 roll into a rising, sweeping, high-banked right turn. This circles=20 the replica Mt. Fuji before diving into another glass walled tunnel.=20 Upon exiting the tunnel, the car rockets up the tower-like hill much=20 faster than H:XLC, but I believe the height is the same. This gives=20 the most explosive, protracted, ejector air I've ever felt.=20 At the base of the hill, there is another tunnel, where the train=20 rolls to the left, and proceeds up a LONG ramp. At the top, there is=20 a moment of floating air as your picture is taken from a giant camera=20 on the left, and the first brakes slow the train from @70 MPH to @ 40=20 MPH. A banked 120 degree left turn, then gentle braking to @ 30 MPH, wide=20 banked 210 degree right, and pre-station brakes stop the train before=20 you roll through the barn and into the unloading station. TTD is faster, and the sensation is very different. TTD's 4-second=20 launch feels much more protracted. However, Dodonpa gives a more=20 complete ride. With air time, and turns at speed, and a 45 second=20 launch to pre-station brake time, you get to savor the speed. With a=20 much longer track than H:XLC, and 27.1 MPH faster, it's light years=20 better. The adrenaline was pumping hard! Also, this was the first coaster with souvenirs specifically for a=20 ride in Japan that were not boxes of candy or cookies. Oddly, there=20 were Hello Kitty on the Father train knick knacks, including pens,=20 wash cloths, cell phone dangles, etc. I got a T-shirt that has the=20 Dodonpa logo, on the left breast, and Japanese Kanji on the back that=20 say "Love Speed" with English above. There's Kanji on the sleeve that=20 Mayumi (GF) says doesn't translate to English. Incidentally, Dodonpa=20 does not translate either, so no flying squirrel or other oddity here. A note: Dodonpa's installation bisects one of the primary park paths,=20 resulting in an elevated walkway that looks very out of place. Next, we crossed over to Fujiyama's elevated station. Touted as=20 the "King of Coasters," Fujiyama meaning "king of mountains." With=20 two fairly standard 7 car, 2 rows, 2 seats per row, TOGO trains in=20 operation (one silver, the other gold) the line was maybe 45 minutes.=20 Around the station, there are still plaques celebrating Fujiyama's=20 status as world's tallest coaster. Dodonpa I can understand, as its=20 speed record was broken only last year, but Fujiyama's records were=20 broken 7 years ago! The seat on Fuji is quite comfortable, on other TOGO's they can be=20 otherwise: no leg-room, small seats, etc, and this lap bar has grab=20 handles on it.=20 Like other tall rides, Fuji has altitude signs on the lift hill, but=20 in 10 meter increments. At the 79 meter peak is a sign that=20 states "World Record." The top of the lift is flattened out, and=20 dives slightly to the right VERY suddenly with a huge amount of air=20 in the back row.=20 Fuji's first drop does not reach the ground, but at 70 meters from=20 top to bottom, provides plenty of speed through the Cyclone-like=20 layout. Head choppers are everywhere, and every rise and drop but one=20 gives a healthy dose of air.=20 As I have mentioned before, it seems that all the bad TOGOs are in=20 the states, and Fuji continues to emphasize this. There are two over- banked turns directing the train away from the station, the first is=20 wonderful, and in keeping with the rest of the layout, delivers=20 smooth air. It dives down into a small bunny hill that gives the=20 front incredible air, followed by a ground hugging wide over-banked=20 turn at speed. The second has an odd flattening out that stands out=20 on this otherwise ultra-smooth coaster. No rougher than something=20 found on an Intamin or B&M, here it disrupts in a way that really=20 bothered me. Without, this was easily top 5. With, maybe it falls in=20 the #8-#12 range. Then after this turn, a small, high double-up with=20 great air, and another flawless turn, the coaster proceeds into its=20 very cool finale: zigzagging, left and right, up and down, while=20 banking left and right, giving four huge, blasts of air, before=20 rising up into a pop of air before the downward sloping brake run. I lost all count at how many times I left my seat bottom, but even=20 the vaunted Phoenix does not provide this much air. Yes, Fuji gets=20 twice the track length to work with as well as over 80 MPH, but I=20 think I like this more than Apollo's Chariot. Maybe even all the B&M=20 and Morgan hypers. I will be returning to Fuji-Q.=20 Dodonpa and Fujiyama are calling me. From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 21:57:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96850 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 04:57:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 04:57:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 04:57:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 04:57:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 04:57:37 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 399 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.205.206 Subject: Re: News and question for Orange County X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sandy" wrote: > Taking out flat rides, some other things on the midway are: > > Maurer Soehne Spinning Coaster Hmm... This may be my chance to find out if a spinning coaster would cause... uhh... problems. Since the LA County Fair in September also has RCS rides, I'll probably get a second chance at these if I miss 'em. Adam From lance@screamscape.com Mon Jul 12 22:25:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78513 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 05:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 05:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 05:25:42 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6D5PgTE092750 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 22:25:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 6816 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 05:24:24 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 05:24:24 -0000 Message-ID: <069101c46899$ac8bbae0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <20040712221349.30414.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:24:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > >Well, should shouldn't have been there in the first place .. I mean, is > >an amusement park really an appropriate place for an infant?? When the family goes to the park... what do you do with the baby? As the father of a new baby myself, I can guarentee that he will be breastfeeding in a few parks later on this season when we venture out into the world on vacation. My other son is 2.5 now and we went through it all back then as well when he was a baby. You can expect people to sit at home just because they have a baby... baby's will breastfeed on and off on the average for the first year of their life. The trick is... a Mother feeding her child has many ways to acomplish the task. Some just "whip it out" while others are more descrete, finding a quiet bench somewhere in a corner and use a blanket. Obviously, one way will gather attention while the other can be done to the point that no one has any clue what is going on. > If baring chests > bothers people, shouldn't all males be wearing shirts in the > waterparks? If I complained that the naked male torso offended me, > would someone tell them to cover up? There's no real reason for men > to go shirtless, and I don't think the rules should be unevenly > applied. On a similar note... I find the Mullet offensive. Can we find a way to ban it from theme parks? From munkye1972@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 23:16:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57491 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 06:16:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 06:16:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 06:16:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 06:16:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:16:26 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <069101c46899$ac8bbae0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 114 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.73 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 At least she wasn't trying to feed her child while riding. Can we get back a little towards topic? :) Chris B From edi_meister@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 00:12:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: edi_meister@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32607 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 07:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 07:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 07:12:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.121] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 07:11:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:11:26 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5434 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "Andrew BK" X-Originating-IP: 24.141.79.176 Subject: TR: PCW - Tomb Raider (brief) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83789821 X-Yahoo-Profile: edi_meister We made our first summer trip up to PCW last Friday, getting our Paramount season passes. The big question being, what would this new 13th coaster be like. We all knew about this Zamperla Volare last October, and the (bad) review it had from SF Elich Gardens. Now to check it out. My son made me promise him a ride on Tomb Raider. For the record, my favourite ride in the park is still Top Gun, the SLC. Always has been and still is. And it is my favourite SLC any park anywhere. Very reasonable crowds this day and no severe line ups for anything. This was mainly a family trip so we had to pass on our usual classic fare this time (Vortex, Dragon Fyre, Wilde Beast, etc.) And very reasonable in Splash Works too. I figured that this might have been doubled on a Saturday. (Might I add that PCW has an exceptional waterpark.) And as usual for PCW, everything was running. Down in Nick Central we noted that the Jimmy Neutron Brainwasher was up, but after its accident last year I have no further interest in granting this indulgence. Wonderland is good for families: three distinct kids areas, and a waterpark. In Nick Central they have kids bumper cars. This is an original and was called Boulder Bumpers in its former Bedrock theming. I was always fond of this one because it was scaled especially for kids while being a proper bumper cars. The lineup, albeit short, was slow, because after each cycle the ride ops would go and manually arrange each and every car into an organized starting position. So this made for a long cycle and still too short a run. Nevertheless it is one of three rides I am particularly appreciative of in its kids areas. One other are Scooby's Ghoster Coaster, another original, because it is not a kiddie coaster but rather a proper wood coaster simply scaled down. I always ride it with my kids and it is always good. And I will say that I am really impressed with Silver Bullet, their Vekoma Family Inverted Coaster. I know its a Vekoma deal and they say you can spin the wheels at the station - so what. It's delightful and a great way for kids to have a taste for the inverted coaster concept. To the point now, we did take a very nice ride on the Minebuster. I hadn't ridden that in a few years and it was delightful. The lineup was measured in seconds. I've always liked the Minebuster - it just flies down the track. And Splashworks is all intermeshed with its course, making it much more interesting now than when it was new. As for Tomb Raider we had about a twenty minute lineup. I noticed as a car enters the lift helix there was a distinctive metallic 'knock'. I dared think the car was actually banging against the station. But it is actually a spring device at the bottom of the rotating fork. When the car rises above this device, it springs back out with a loud 'bong'. It isn't the most reassurring sound. The line moves continuously because of the loading system. Since it is something like a mouse having single cars the loading is a little more ski lift style. Rather clever I thought for a flying coaster; entry is from the back. The cars are vertical and move continuously through the station. You simply walk up to the moving car and climb aboard. You actually climb a ladder to put your head and shoulders in the riding position. An attendant walks behind and closes the horizontally barred gate behind you. As the car leaves the station it tips into its horizontal riding position and enters the helix. The car itself has plexiglas under your face. I discovered that this is necessary to stop drool that drips from your mouth during the ride. Once around the helix and 'bang' there's that thing. Up we go. I've been on the PGA Stealth (now Borg) and that flying coaster I like(d). I appreciated having my arms dangling free and not having anything silly in front of me blocking my view. Yes, that counted as a roller coaster. This thing was rather pathetic. I read that the Elich Gardens installation was somewhat rough, and the reviewer complained of having his ears boxed. That didn't happen to me. I found Tomb Raider reasonable in that department, but for some reason I felt blood pressure in my face. Rather, I felt like my face was going to come off my head. It wasn't a very pleasant feeling and this is what Tomb Raider did to me. And I found use of that plexiglas as drool was drawn from my mouth. Stealth did not have that effect. Stealth I found jiggly, and I found that I could prevent a headache if I simply held my head away from the headrest. But other than that, Stealth was fun. Tomb Raider...enjoyable? No, not really. Tomb Raider is something that you ride for the credit and not for any sort of fun. I dare say that now I have a 'do not ride' list for PCW. I never had one before. (I have such a list for CP, containing the Mine Ride and newly admitted Corkscrew.) After that rather sorry experience my son and I took advantage of the zero lineup on Friday night for a flight on the SLC. Now that was fun! That was laughing all the way. My ride photo from that showed the usual coaster state of bliss. Back down to NoCal later this week on business. Now I can pop into PGA - which is (ludicrously) local...like ride the light rail over there after work. Will check out what they (could have done with Grizzly, but) did with Stealth and this new water park thing. Andrew From gburnash@earthlink.net Tue Jul 13 06:59:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66083 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 13:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 13:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 13:58:52 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BkNnr-00041r-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:58:40 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <20040712221349.30414.qmail@buzzneon.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:58:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.54 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:54:23 -0400, Shilfiell Nels Rada wrote: >> > To me it sounds more like she was looking to pick a fight here. I >> mean, >>> really, how hard is it to simply go someplace private to do that. >> >> Well, should shouldn't have been there in the first place .. I mean, is >> an amusement park really an appropriate place for an infant?? > > Maybe it was a family outing, and the infant was part of the family? > What if a mom wants to bring her older children to the park but can't > get a sitter for the infant? I have to agree with you there. When my kids were very young, that didn't change my wife and I needing to get out. Especially since we were also sponsors in a teen group and had to chaperone. Guess what we did when sitter's weren't available (or on the trip with us)? I have absoultely no problems at all with infants in amusement parks, and if anything think it's a great place for them since they are a great place for "family" time. But the people who bring infants also need to be aware of some limitations that come with taking the infant. > > And as far as it being easy to go someplace private to "do that" .... > I think it's probably easier for people to avert their eyes if a > legal, defensible, purposeful action offends them. If baring chests > bothers people, shouldn't all males be wearing shirts in the > waterparks? If I complained that the naked male torso offended me, > would someone tell them to cover up? If you're going to use the waterpark excuse, then at the same time, bar bikinis, thongs, or any two piece suit on women, since the same rules could apply there. ;) But something tells me that neither side would really like that. In any case, I still think that some discretion should be used... > There's no real reason for men > to go shirtless, and I don't think the rules should be unevenly > applied. Wait, so you think that women should be able to just run around topless at the parks????? Ummm, sorry, but there are some very good reasons that the rules are "unevenly applied", and should be. hehe > > Parks wishing to avoid controversy could always provide clean, > comfortable areas for breastfeeding - face it, seating is pretty > important, and the majority of women would prefer such a setup. Totally and completely agreed here. However, that's not always possible in all parks. It's a great, admirable goal, but realistically it's not always going to be possible or happen. In which case, "mom" also needs to be prepared. If > there's nothing posted in the park rules about breastfeeding, I don't > blame women at all for feeding their children when needed. Sure. But again, I have a feeling that the overall problem may not have been that she was breastfeeding, but how she was doing it. Most women seem to have a clue about this, and as was mentioned earlier carry a blanket or something to cover with and provide a bit of discretion. Or have large shirts that can still cover up well while feeding. Or something similar so that some modesty is also preserved while also doing something very normal. But not all do. I mention the couple that I've seen basically strip down to nothing so they could "feed their kid". While breastfeeding doesn't bother me, that last part most certainly would. If the woman wasn't willing to be discreet about it, then I don't have a problem with them asking her to move somewhere else. But that's where I'm disturbed by the article, because it leaves out some rather crucial details along that lines, so you really don't know what happened. Breastfeeding may not the problem, a refusal to provide some basic accomodations to those around her may well have been. The same should be true if a guy removes his shirt in an amusement park (not the water park), or why various other behaviors aren't allowed. I see breastfeeding in parks fairly often, including Six Flags parks. And I'm still wondering what this woman was doing to draw such attention to herself, and then enough so to have 5 security gaurds respond to it. While the corporate office likely won't have a clue since they're not involved in the daily ops of the parks, I would like to hear someone from the park itself who is actually aware of the situation. I think there's a lot more to this story, as is true with most stories of things like this in parks, than we're getting. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From afrsandy@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 07:43:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93006 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 14:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 14:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52906.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.183) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 14:43:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713144249.4949.qmail@web52906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52906.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:42:49 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:42:49 -0700 (PDT) To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.183 From: Adam Sandy Subject: NEWS: Top Thrill Metal Press X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy How many times can Intamin (or its subcontracters) say "my bad" this year? Adam ------------- http://www.newsnet5.com/entertainment/3523436/detail.html Shards Of Metal Fly, Injuring Dragster Riders Man Says Riders Bleeding When Ride Ends UPDATED: 10:23 AM EDT July 13, 2004 SANDUSKY, Ohio -- Four people are recovering after shards of metal started flying Monday while they were riding the Dragster, NewsChannel5 reported. Some were also burned by some type of oily substance. Shards Of Metal Fly A metal cable was reportedly frayed, and when the cart rolled over the cable metal shards were sent flying, said Janice Witherow, Cedar Point's spokeswoman. The riders were reportedly treated at the park's First Aid station. Two others reportedly chose to seek medical attention at a Sandusky hospital. One rider was reportedly injured when a shard of metal struck him in the chest. His condition, however, is unknown. Privacy laws forbid hospitals from releasing information on conditions. Terry Downey said his 20-year-old son, Joel, was on the ride with friends when he told him that something snapped. The ride reaches 120 mph. "All of the sudden, it felt like they were being hit by bugs because the ride was going so fast," he said. "He said when the ride stopped everybody was looking at him and he said there was blood on everybody." Meanwhile, Cedar Point officials said the park has an overall good safety record. The ride, however, is shut down indefinitely. This is the second time this month that the ride has been shut down. Copyright 2004 by NewsNet5. All rights ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From scrunch17@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 07:57:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrunch17@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72064 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 14:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 14:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20622.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.227.80) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 14:57:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713145657.43446.qmail@web20622.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.207.244.3] by web20622.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:56:57 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:56:57 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040713023229.32021.qmail@buzzneon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.227.80 From: Jeremy Norris Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=64084290 X-Yahoo-Profile: scrunch17 --- cameron@buzzneon.com wrote: > I just think that a hot, crowded, noisy place is not > somewhere > appropriate for an infant. Cam, I normally think that you are a level-headed individual, but this is a completely absurd train of thought. OF COURSE an amusement park is appropriate for an infant. Hell, parks actually ENCOURAGE such youngstas to come. Practically evey major park att least here in the USA offers FREE admission to kids under age 2 (or in some cases 3). It would be *ludicrous* for these parks to then think that mothers would not occassionally breast feed. It's natural, it's medically advised, and it is (generally) inoffensive. For someone to complain, to me, seems like they need to re-take high school biology! Like Lance said, there *are* different ways that it can be done. Most often, mother will simply sit down with the baby cradled in her lap and usually drape a blanket over shoulder and child. Most people that see that would just assume the child is asleep or something. Now, if this mom was squirting milk into the kid's mouth from ten feet away, YES, I would say that is inappropriate. But really, people get offended by too many things too easily these days. Breastfeeding in public should really be a non-issue. Because, let's face it, when a baby is hungry, you HAVE to feed it no matter what. lata, jeremy --who think anything that allows for more bare female breasts is a good thing ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From afrsandy@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 09:16:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20892 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 16:16:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 16:16:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52909.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.186) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 16:16:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713161627.25674.qmail@web52909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:16:27 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:16:27 -0700 (PDT) To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.186 From: Adam Sandy Subject: QUES: Surf Coaster USA X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy I was doing something for work today and came across the waterpark, Surf Coaster USA. The photos on the website (http://www.surfcoasterusa.com) seemed like a well-done place for a more locally owned park. Anyone been there? Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From aelk2004@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 10:41:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50626 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 17:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 17:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 17:41:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 17:40:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:40:51 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040712223850.54902.qmail@web81702.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 522 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: TR: Worlds of Fun; C-N-C X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Wood SNIP > I'd really like to see one built, especially since I'm > moving to Peoria, AZ in three weeks. I guess a 5-5.5 > hour drive to Knott's will be my closest major > park...at least the AZ State Fair has RCS rides, so > that'll be nice for a few weeks... > > -Bryan Welcome to Arizona! Actually, Disney is closer, but, Knott's is only a few miles from there. Well, now that I think about it, San Diego (Belmont's Giant Dipper) is actually closer than LA. -Alan From jay@karenandjay.com Tue Jul 13 10:46:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89657 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 17:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 17:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 17:46:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:21:00 -0700 Message-Id: <200407131021.AA2527395960@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: MISC: Great Escape pics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme At www.karenandjay.com, I've just posted my Great Escape TR with pictures. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Tue Jul 13 10:56:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8601 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 17:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 17:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 17:56:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:56:52 -0700 Message-Id: <200407131056.AA2533097592@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: "Rollercoaster Talk" X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme Great TRs, George! > A few splashes here and there, and not much else. Until near the end. That's when it came, and thank goodness we had left anything damageable back in the station. This waterfall is unlike any other. It gets only about half the boat, but I don't know that I have ever had that much water being poured on me at once at any other time in my= life.< This is a major beef I have with so many rapids rides. They're run more like a Lazy River, and the only way you get wet is through a cheap gimmick like a water cannon or a waterfall. Busch Gardens is like that, even. That's what I love about Lake Compounce's rapids: no gimmicks. You get soaked just as you would on a real rapids ride, from the action of the boat. Any idea who determines how wet these things get? I've noticed that parks will turn off waterfalls and such in cooler weather. But how about trough action? Can it be regulated with water flow? Or is the action determined by its original design? Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From jay@karenandjay.com Tue Jul 13 11:05:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15404 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 18:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 18:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 18:04:58 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:06:04 -0700 Message-Id: <200407131106.AA207618552@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re:TR: Fujikyu Highlands (part 2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme >Dodonpa and Fujiyama's stations sit on opposite sides at the bottom >of Fujikyu's entrance plaza. < Thanks for the terrific TR! That's one park I've fantasized about going to. It sounds like Fujiyama would be my idea of coaster heaven. I agree with your observation of H:XLC. It did feel like someone had jumped on my chest. And after the quick hill it felt like someone was kicking me in the head. Did Dodonpa have any shuffle to it, or was it relatively smooth? Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From Xcoaster@juno.com Tue Jul 13 11:21:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: xcoaster@juno.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29782 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 18:21:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 18:21:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m28.nyc.untd.com) (64.136.22.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 18:21:04 -0000 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: S1XTBOmPsohiKv2kq6/VWmNQohXqTC+qH73klygdRK+ZrGasSky3Hw== Received: (from xcoaster@juno.com) by m28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J2FJS9CF; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:20:27 PDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:15:17 -0700 Message-ID: <20040713.111517.-1715551.0.Xcoaster@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.136.22.91 From: Xcoaster@juno.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: Virginia Reel (was Unusual coasters) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61538169 X-Yahoo-Profile: xcoasterxtreme http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail884.htm I guess one still lives. Tyrolean Tubwist at Joyland Amusement Park in England. Ryan Snooks Xcoaster@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From cameron@buzzneon.com Tue Jul 13 12:13:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93416 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 19:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 19:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 19:13:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 5726 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2004 19:12:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713191240.5725.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:12:40 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <20040713145657.43446.qmail@web20622.mail.yahoo.com> from "Jeremy Norris" at Jul 13, 2004 07:56:57 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Breast Feeding Brouhaha X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey Jeremy, > > I just think that a hot, crowded, noisy place is not > > somewhere appropriate for an infant. > > Cam, I normally think that you are a level-headed > individual, but this is a completely absurd train of > thought. OF COURSE an amusement park is appropriate > for an infant. Hell, parks actually ENCOURAGE such > youngstas to come. Practically evey major park att > least here in the USA offers FREE admission to kids > under age 2 (or in some cases 3). I'm not talking about 2 or 3 year olds .. I'm talking about new-born infants .. 2, 3, 4 months old. I really don't think it's responsible to take a kid that young to someplace so hot, dirty, crowded, under the blazing sun. I'm not suggesting that it be 'banned' or anything like that .. I'm not even saying that the woman shouldn't have been breast feeding (just the opposite, I think it's pretty unfair that she was treated so badly). Hopefully this makes it a little more clear! Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Carp! * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** I still can't typo.. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Tue Jul 13 12:28:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75256 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 19:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 19:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 19:28:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 5807 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2004 19:28:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713192836.5806.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com (Talk Coaster) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:28:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: NEWS: Shards Of Metal Injure Cedar Point Coaster Riders X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey, I hope this isn't old news .. a guy I work with just sent me the link: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/3524355/detail.html Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Carp! * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** I still can't typo.. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From MrStratosphere@aol.com Tue Jul 13 12:45:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37302 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 19:45:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 19:45:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 19:45:22 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.c8.49d68163 (24895) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:44:48 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.38 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Shards Of Metal Injure Cedar Point Coaster Riders X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I dont think it is heres a post from Screamscape.com Park News - (7/13/04) Breaking News: Top Thrill Dragster has been shut down= =20 indefinitely after four riders were struck by shards of metal possibly shee= red=20 off the launch cable while others reported feeling =E2=80=9Cburned=E2=80=9D= by an =E2=80=9Coily=E2=80=9D=20 substance. Two of the riders were taken to a nearby hospital for treatment = with=20 one report of a rider being struck by a large piece of metal in the chest. = You=20 can read more here. I can only imagine that later today there will be repor= ts=20 of Storm Runner (Hersheypark) and Xcelerator (Knott=E2=80=99s) being closed= for=20 inspection.=20 John Mr. Stratosphere In a message dated 7/13/2004 12:32:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20 cameron@buzzneon.com writes: Hey, I hope this isn't old news .. a guy I work with just sent me the link: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/3524355/detail.html Cam. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MrStratosphere@aol.com Tue Jul 13 12:50:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21875 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 19:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 19:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 19:50:04 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1da.2629b77e (24895) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1da.2629b77e.2e2596c5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:49:25 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.7 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: NEWS: Dragster Accident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is from http://www.rideaccidents.com/ (Formerly Rides 911) John Mr. Stratosphere Accident on Cedar Point's Top Thrill Dragster injures riders (Monday, July 14, 2004) - At Cedar Point park in Sandusky Ohio, four people were struck by flying debris while riding the Top Thrill Dragster roller coaster. Reports indicate that the ride's metal cable frayed as the train was being launched. Shards of metal then sheered off the cable and struck the riders as the train reached speeds of up to 120 miles per hour. The injured were left with cuts and minor injuries. Some riders also complained of minor burns caused by an oily substance. The injured riders were treated at the park's first aid station, and two of them sought further medical attention at a hospital. The ride has been shut down indefinitely. Top Thrill Dragster is the world's tallest and fastest roller coaster. It was designed and manufactured by Intamin of Switzerland. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Tue Jul 13 13:14:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99535 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 20:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 20:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 20:14:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 6024 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2004 20:14:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20040713201433.6023.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:33 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <00e201c46858$f59ffc50$6b0c10ac@wc.com> from "Absolutely Reliable News and Rumors" at Jul 12, 2004 05:41:13 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: PKD 7/11/04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey Bill, I *almost* stopped at PKD on my trip (I drove right by it on the interstate), but just didn't have the time. It was nice to read your report, since I've never been there.. > Volcano: The Blast Coaster: Steel inverted launched coaster (Intamin) > (1998) -- 5*. This is a great and, so far as I know, utterly unique > coaster. Volcano is the main reason why I'd love to stop off there, it really looks quite cool. After riding Storm Runner, I was wondering why there are so few launched inverted coasters .. something totally twisted like Batman or Top Gun (at Carowinds) would be great with a breath- taking launch. > Flight of Fear: Steel launched indoor (Premier) (1996) -- 4. This was the > first of these I'd ridden without the over-the-shoulder restraints I rode Jokers Jinx at Six Flags America while I was away, and totally enjoyed it. I'd never ridden one of these before (Flight Of Fear is the same layout, right?). Interesting that you mention the mid-course brakes, since Jinx didn't have any .. but did have a flat section of track mid-ride, which (at the time) I found odd. Now it makes sense! Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Carp! * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** I still can't typo.. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From bethtoons@gmail.com Tue Jul 13 15:14:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43732 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 22:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 22:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.245) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 22:14:31 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so391488cwb for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.10 with SMTP id x10mr41cwb; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f3040713151471d1127a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:14:31 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200407132202.i6DM2CNc020873@linux4.omaha.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200407132202.i6DM2CNc020873@linux4.omaha.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.245 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: NEWS: Okoboji's Arnolds Park shows financial progress X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons I like to see reports like this from the small parks I visited this year that were worried about closure. Beth http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=46&u_sid=1146400 Okoboji's Arnolds Park shows financial progress BY GREG DREES WORLD-HERALD CORRESPONDENT ARNOLDS PARK, Iowa - Revenue so far this year at Arnolds Park is up from last year, a glimmer of good news for the financially strapped facility. The amusement park pulled in $596,000 through the end of June, up $97,000 or 19.5 percent from the same period in 2003, said Jim Frost, executive director of the nonprofit organization that runs the park. The result, helped by trimming expenses, was a net operating gain of $77,000. A year ago, the park posted a $146,000 loss. "We've said all along that this operation can be profitable if the right people and plan were in place," Frost said Friday at a meeting of the board of the Iowa Great Lakes Maritime Museum. The nonprofit group oversees Arnolds Park, a Coney Island-style park; Queen's Court retail corridor; the Iowa Great Lakes Maritime Museum and other entities on the 23-acre lakeside site on West Okoboji. The park still faces difficulties, mainly $1.7 million in debt taken on in 1999 in an effort to prevent condominium development at the area. Frost said budget and finance committee members will meet with area bankers toward the end of the operating season to establish a business plan. Bob Schneider, committee chairman, said banks have shown patience in allowing the new board to implement its plan for turning the park around. "We're making progress, and we have the trust of the bankers," Schneider said. Board member Al Maser said plans are in place for an annual meeting and fund-raising dinner and auction on Aug. 8. The goal is to raise $100,000, and 120 sponsors already have donated $60,000 in items for the auction, he said. Money from the event is to supplement the park's operating budget. Maser said the board will be challenged with a major-gift fund-raiser in the future to reduce debt. "We will be turning to the Iowa Great Lakes community for their support in this matter," Maser said. Contact the Omaha World-Herald newsroomCopyright ©2004 Omaha World-Herald®. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, displayed or distributed for any purpose without permission from the Omaha World-Herald. From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Tue Jul 13 15:29:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91378 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 22:29:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 22:29:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m18.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.208) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 22:29:51 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.8e.f9b5827 (3948) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8e.f9b5827.2e25bc0d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:28:29 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.208 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Gang, Isn't this the 2nd time TTD has had the same accident/incident happen with the oil and the fraying of the cable? Joe, Tampa Bay THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning - NHL Champions - 2004 In the warrior's code, there's no surrender! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Tue Jul 13 15:41:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99755 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 22:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 22:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 22:41:18 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.132.30e7849f (3948) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <132.30e7849f.2e25bef0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:40:48 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.1 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident (Follow-Up) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was speaking to another member and this is the 2nd time TTD has done this. Any comments, suggestions, opinions? THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning - NHL Champions - 2004 In the warrior's code, there's no surrender! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bethtoons@gmail.com Tue Jul 13 15:48:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75695 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 22:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 22:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.249) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 22:48:14 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so124230cwb for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.74 with SMTP id v74mr155425cwb; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071315417d2f4b31@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:41:26 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8e.f9b5827.2e25bc0d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8e.f9b5827.2e25bc0d@aol.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.249 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:28:29 EDT, thunder7nyfl@aol.com wrote: > Isn't this the 2nd time TTD has had the same accident/incident happen with > the oil and the fraying of the cable? It's the second or third time they've had substatial cable problems... but this was the first to cause injury. From munkye1972@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 16:42:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9409 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 23:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 23:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.99) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 23:42:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.123] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 23:35:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:35:30 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200407131056.AA2533097592@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 723 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.99 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Ducharme" wrote: > Any idea who determines how wet these things get? I've noticed that parks will turn off waterfalls and > such in cooler weather. But how about trough action? Can it be regulated with water flow? Or is the > action determined by its original design? > > Jay The original concrete trough determines how much the boats move. Usually a step causes enough action to get riders wet. If the water is too deep, and the effect is lessened. Too shallow, scrape. Rides are usually a mix of park and designer input. The cheap gimmicks (waterfalls, cannons and geysers) used to be thematic, but newer rides have moved away from that. Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 16:45:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64789 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 23:45:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 23:45:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.90) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 23:45:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.132] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2004 23:44:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:44:31 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200407131106.AA207618552@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 182 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.90 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re:TR: Fujikyu Highlands (part 2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Ducharme" wrote: Did Dodonpa have any shuffle to it, or > was it relatively smooth? > > Jay Jay: ULTRASMOOTH. Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 17:06:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4356 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 00:06:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 00:06:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.101) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 00:06:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.142] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 00:06:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:06:07 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304071315417d2f4b31@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 807 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.101 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Beth Aslakson wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:28:29 EDT, thunder7nyfl@a... > wrote: > > > Isn't this the 2nd time TTD has had the same accident/incident happen with > > the oil and the fraying of the cable? > > It's the second or third time they've had substatial cable problems... > but this was the first to cause injury. Looks like the Thrust Air idea may conceptually win this round. Although (knock on wood) an exploding pipe or tank would be pretty devastating. On aircraft carriers, aircraft are launched by steam driven "catapults." This system has worked for decades, and Thrust Air is much more similar to it than Impulse, LIM, LSM or Hydraulic launch systems. Yeah, Dodonpa sold me, what of it? Chris B From afrsandy@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 18:54:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21260 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 01:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 01:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.226) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 01:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 01:54:43 -0000 To: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:54:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.226 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > Rides are usually a mix of park and designer input. Actually, as I understand it, the rapids on the Intamin ones were all the park. Intamin gave the concrete trough specs. and the park's engineer's placed the rapid rolls where they wanted. This helps explain why the rapids rides, especially the older ones, are so hit and miss. I don't know the manufacturer/park input ratio on the Hopkins rides. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 18:58:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38414 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 01:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 01:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 01:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 01:57:30 -0000 To: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:57:26 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.225 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >Looks like the Thrust Air idea may conceptually win this round. The system has worked pretty well, both on the coasters and the hundreds of tower rides around the world. The issues with PKD weren't the launch system at all, it was very reliable. In addition, according to the park Dodonpa has a pretty reliable operating record. Like every system it is not perfect, but it is a good set-up and unlike the LIM's you don't have to buy a separate power storage as so many parks had to. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From MrStratosphere@aol.com Tue Jul 13 20:31:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95977 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 03:31:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 03:31:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 03:31:41 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.dd.f255076 (24895) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:31:10 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.137 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/13/2004 7:01:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, afrsandy@yahoo.com writes: The issues with PKD weren't the launch system at all, it was very reliable. In addition, according to the park Dodonpa has a pretty reliable operating record. Wasnt the problems the train, arrow dynamics of it, and the forces on the top of the hill, is that correct? John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lance@screamscape.com Tue Jul 13 21:47:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26174 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 04:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 04:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 04:47:22 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6E4lLDR010989 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 56982 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 04:45:49 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 04:45:49 -0000 Message-ID: <01f301c4695d$741477f0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:45:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > > > Isn't this the 2nd time TTD has had the same accident/incident > happen with > > > the oil and the fraying of the cable? > > > > It's the second or third time they've had substatial cable > problems... > > but this was the first to cause injury. > > Looks like the Thrust Air idea may conceptually win this round. > Although (knock on wood) an exploding pipe or tank would be pretty > devastating. The nice thing about the S&S rides is that technically they are based on the same technology that they have up and running around the world everywhere for the Space Shots and Turbo Drops... proven technology with very little downtime. Meanwhile they are launching (racing) those Drag Race cars with the same technology in Orlando's Old Town area all day long each and every day and I've yet to see them go down when I visit or drive past and those things are reaching the 110-120mph range in 2 seconds. The way things are going with Intamin, I wonder what it would take for S&S to come up and replace the launch system on Dragster with their own. From lance@screamscape.com Tue Jul 13 21:58:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10358 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 04:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 04:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 04:58:33 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6E4wXBe025439 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 63213 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 04:56:12 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 04:56:12 -0000 Message-ID: <020b01c4695e$e7c55c90$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:56:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: Six Flags Over Georgia- and trouble X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > Rides are usually a mix of park and designer input. Actually, as I understand it, the rapids on the Intamin ones were all the park. Intamin gave the concrete trough specs. and the park's engineer's placed the rapid rolls where they wanted. This helps explain why the rapids rides, especially the older ones, are so hit and miss. This is true... so it's up to the park to choose how rambuncious they want their ride to be. Intamin only supplies the specs for the trough and what the ride system can do and what it shouldn't do (example... if an incline is made too steep.) and they they provide all the hardware (boats, turntable, lift hill and the pumps or screws to move the water around) and everything else design wise, feature wise, is left up to the parks. But... as for the hit and miss issue... since the troughs run dry after you shut it down, it's a simple matter to move your "weirs" around in the troughs to change and increase or decrease the rapids action. However, in the end it's mainly trial and error to see what works and what doesn't. So overnight, with a big enough crew, the entire action of a rapid ride could be completely changed. From cameron@buzzneon.com Tue Jul 13 22:16:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83127 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 05:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 05:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 05:16:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 9954 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Jul 2004 05:16:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20040714051656.9953.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:16:56 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Adam Sandy" at Jul 13, 2004 09:57:26 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > >Looks like the Thrust Air idea may conceptually win this round. > > The system has worked pretty well, both on the coasters and the hundreds of > tower rides around the world. The issues with PKD weren't the launch system > at all, it was very reliable. In addition, according to the park Dodonpa > has a pretty reliable operating record. Like every system it is not > perfect, but it is a good set-up and unlike the LIM's you don't have to buy > a separate power storage as so many parks had to. But the major problem with air (or hydraulic) launch is that it's not possible to launch a moving train (like Volcano, or the Impulse coasters) ... to me, that is the best use of the launch gimmick.. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Yellow, Black * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** and Rectangular * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From MrStratosphere@aol.com Tue Jul 13 22:47:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61167 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 05:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 05:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m15.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.205) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 05:47:06 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.c.2dcd37f9 (24895) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:47:00 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.205 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/13/2004 9:49:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lance@screamscape.com writes: The nice thing about the S&S rides is that technically they are based on the same technology that they have up and running around the world everywhere for the Space Shots and Turbo Drops... proven technology with very little downtime. Meanwhile they are launching (racing) those Drag Race cars with the same technology in Orlando's Old Town area all day long each and every day and I've yet to see them go down when I visit or drive past and those things are reaching the 110-120mph range in 2 seconds. The way things are going with Intamin, I wonder what it would take for S&S to come up and replace the launch system on Dragster with their own. Well this news must be big i just saw the Dragster Incident on our local 10 oclock news cast. One of the girls said, I'd never ride a roller coaster again, i just cant do it. How do all of you think this will affect the amusement industry? John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From IOASpiderman@addrealm.com Tue Jul 13 23:33:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: ioaspiderman@addrealm.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95383 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 06:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 06:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.9) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 06:33:04 -0000 Received: from smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com (smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com [205.188.118.19]) by rly-ip05.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN6-740f4d3551c7; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:31:49 -0400 Received: from mikedell866 (AC8D53C5.ipt.aol.com [172.141.83.197]) by smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6E6VSmw001567 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:31:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c4696c$cb108b20$c5538dac@mikedell866> To: References: <20040714051656.9953.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:34:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.43 X-Apparently-From: IOASpiderman@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.118.19 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.9 From: "Mike" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=129739118 X-Yahoo-Profile: ioaspiderman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << > >Looks like the Thrust Air idea may conceptually win this round. > > The system has worked pretty well, both on the coasters and the hundreds of > tower rides around the world. The issues with PKD weren't the launch system > at all, it was very reliable. In addition, according to the park Dodonpa > has a pretty reliable operating record. Like every system it is not > perfect, but it is a good set-up and unlike the LIM's you don't have to buy > a separate power storage as so many parks had to. But the major problem with air (or hydraulic) launch is that it's not possible to launch a moving train (like Volcano, or the Impulse coasters) ... to me, that is the best use of the launch gimmick..>> I think it can be done with non-LSM/LIM launching systems, it's just a matter of engineering it properly, so obviously you will never see Intamin do it... successfully at least. An idea that came to my mind real fast is this (if I can explain it decently): first, you have kicker tires as the train enters the launch track in order to give the launch system some degree of control over the speed at which the train will engage the launch system at. Then, for the actual launch, you can then have a pusher on the track instead of actually locking a launch mechanism onto a vehicle. The pusher would not lock onto the vehicle either, but instead would just have to come into contact with some sort of stopper at the undercarraige at the front of the train, so when the pusher starts to move, the train will move with it. You would have the pusher start as soon as the train passes over it, initially going only slightly faster than the train in order to come into contact with the train gently to prevent any massive jolts (that would be the hardest part, preventing jolts, so you would probably need a spring or something at the front of the pusher to dampen when it comes into contact). And once it comes in contact, throw the full launch in gear. The current air launch system might have to be modified slightly to allow for better control over the initial speed depending on how much speed/acceleration control it already has. I'm sure there are other possibilities also.... Mike IOASpiderman@addrealm.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jzucker@alpha-sys.com Wed Jul 14 07:44:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jzucker@alpha-sys.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34099 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 14:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 14:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 14:44:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 14:43:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:43:00 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 648 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "zucker0615" X-Originating-IP: 209.101.63.5 Subject: Re: Brief TR: Knott's Berry Farm, 7/8/04 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192106588 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 > > Then the Supreme Scream, > > ... once you get up to the top, you're REALLY, REALLY > > high! > > I don't think that there are to many taller than it. Maybe a couple. It > is a lot of fun, and you get a great view of the surrounding area. > Depending on what side you sit on, you can see Disneyland from the top on > most days. Heck, I'm pretty sure you can see Utah from up there. The topography is so flat around there, the view to the horizon is tremendous. Definitely makes this ride scarier than others just like it -- like Dominator at Cedar Point, whose base is in a valley. Jon Z The First (with a new email address) From scrunch17@yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 07:59:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrunch17@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47145 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 14:59:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 14:59:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20624.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.227.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 14:59:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20040714145934.19242.qmail@web20624.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.207.244.3] by web20624.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:59:34 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:59:34 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c4696c$cb108b20$c5538dac@mikedell866> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.227.82 From: Jeremy Norris Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=64084290 X-Yahoo-Profile: scrunch17 --- Mike wrote: An idea that came to > my mind real fast is this (if I can explain it > decently): first, you have kicker tires as the train > enters the launch track in order to give the launch > system some degree of control over the speed at > which the train will engage the launch system at. You could actually stop right there. You could simply use kicker tires (ala Hulk) to propel a moving vehicle. In fact, kicker tires have been pushing moving ride vehicles for YEARS (see HUSS Pirat, Frisbee). The engineering task would be to scale it up to coaster speeds, but seeing as though kicker tires are proven to be able to lauch at coaster speeds (again Hulk), that seems like not to far of a stretch. lata, jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From aelk2004@yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 08:02:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52576 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 15:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 15:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 15:02:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.118] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 15:00:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:00:44 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 912 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.102 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: NEWS: Animal Kingdom - It's a girl! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 Visitors to Animal Kingdom last Wednesday were greeted with a sign on the elephant building -- "It's a girl!" But Tuesday night's birth of a 230-pound female named Kianga will give the company more than just another tourist magnet. Kianga, whose name means "sunshine" in Swahili, is another success in the park's efforts to help maintain the world's elephant population. The park was successful last year in breeding to produce a baby boy elephant, Tufani. Kianga's birth will help the theme park establish itself as an important leader in African elephant breeding and a contributor to animal conservation. Animal Kingdom's breeding of its elephants is part of the American Zoo and Aquarium Association's species-survival plan. Under this plan, association members work together to breed 125 species to maintain their population. That way, zoos won't have to take as many animals out of the wild. -Alan From cameron@buzzneon.com Wed Jul 14 08:11:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46706 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 15:11:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 15:11:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 15:11:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 12400 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Jul 2004 15:10:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20040714151011.12399.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:10:11 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <20040714145934.19242.qmail@web20624.mail.yahoo.com> from "Jeremy Norris" at Jul 14, 2004 07:59:34 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > my mind real fast is this (if I can explain it > > decently): first, you have kicker tires as the train > > enters the launch track in order to give the launch > > You could actually stop right there. You could simply > use kicker tires (ala Hulk) to propel a moving > vehicle. Right .. but then you get back to using gobs and gobs of power again (ala Hulk). Although Hulk does seem to be more reliable than the Imtamin LIM coasters .. which seems backwards due to all the extra mechanics. I wonder which of the two systems is cheaper to maintain and run.. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Play a real game, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Play pinball! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From dougjnelson@comcast.net Wed Jul 14 11:34:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26344 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 18:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 18:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 18:34:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.142] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 18:32:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:32:48 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 348 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: > In a message dated 7/13/2004 9:49:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lance@s... writes: > How do all of you think this will affect the amusement > industry? i think its going to hurt Intamin more than anything else. 2 highly publicized accidents of their rides on one year? From dougjnelson@comcast.net Wed Jul 14 11:38:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64725 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 18:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 18:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 18:38:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 18:34:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:34:22 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040714051656.9953.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 451 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, cameron@b... wrote: > >> But the major problem with air (or hydraulic) launch is that it's not > possible to launch a moving train (like Volcano, or the Impulse > coasters) ... to me, that is the best use of the launch gimmick.. what about the system that Hulk uses(RCD doest really say what it uses, and i have no idea)? its seems to run pretty consistently, with not a lot of down time or accidents. From dougjnelson@comcast.net Wed Jul 14 11:42:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9015 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 18:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 18:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 18:42:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.134] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 18:41:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:41:33 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 41 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 D'OH! its already been covered. my bad. From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Wed Jul 14 12:56:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60214 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 19:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 19:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 19:56:21 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.a1.4a591267 (4468) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:55:10 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.136 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/2004 1:47:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, MrStratosphere@aol.com writes: Well this news must be big i just saw the Dragster Incident on our local 10 oclock news cast. One of the girls said, I'd never ride a roller coaster again, i just cant do it. How do all of you think this will affect the amusement industry? I am thinking that once coaster enthusiasts get over the need for speed and height that the industry will settle down to producing quality coasters.... I don't remember ever hearing of a problem with any of the B&M coasters, and that is why they are #1 in my eyes. Quality means good airtime, speed, and leaves you with the overall good feeling of wanting to ride the coaster over and over and over again (ex: Montu and Kumba are very high on my list). The industry overall is responding to enthusiasts need for speed and power, but the technology and problems are not flawless. Just my 2cents. Joe, Tampa Bay FL THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning - NHL Champions - 2004 In the warrior's code, there's no surrender! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gregleg@gregleg.com Wed Jul 14 13:23:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gregleg@gregleg.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70579 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 20:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 20:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO atlas.jtan.com) (207.106.84.159) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 20:23:17 -0000 X-JTAN-Envelope-From: gregleg@gregleg.com X-JTAN-Envelope-To: Received: from raven (thebe.jtan.com [207.106.84.138]) by atlas.jtan.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6EKNFtL019380 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200407142023.i6EKNFtL019380@atlas.jtan.com> To: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:23:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcRp3LL/Guco6MIDSCe0EfYv7Cz7xQAA2DqQ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.106.84.159 From: "Greg Legowski" Subject: RE: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=102344349 X-Yahoo-Profile: GregLeg1 > I am thinking that once coaster enthusiasts get over the need > for speed and height that the industry will settle down to producing > quality coasters.... Except that this statement implies that coaster enthusiasts have anything to do with what the parks build. They don't. Parks build what they can market to the general population. If anything, the majority of coaster enthusiasts figured out LONG ago that height and speed to not necessarily equate to a quality ride. It's all about general public perception, not catering to a tiny minority. --Greg "Some people will go to any lengths to get a ring; others, having had one for a while, will go to any lengths to chuck it into a volcano." -- Liz Langley From cameron@buzzneon.com Wed Jul 14 13:41:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23953 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 20:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 20:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 20:41:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 14369 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Jul 2004 20:41:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20040714204109.14368.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:41:09 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <200407142023.i6EKNFtL019380@atlas.jtan.com> from "Greg Legowski" at Jul 14, 2004 04:23:15 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > I am thinking that once coaster enthusiasts get over the need > > for speed and height that the industry will settle down to producing > > quality coasters.... > > Except that this statement implies that coaster enthusiasts have anything to > do with what the parks build. They don't. Parks build what they can market > to the general population. Right .. I dislike the coaster-geeks as much as the next guy, but I agree with you. The enthusiasts (well, except for the idiots!) like fun, high quality, creative rides .. this may include hight and speed, but certainly isn't limited to JUST height and speed. Parks seem to be building rides for the 'extreme' generation ... morons with more money than brains, who see a capital X, or hear loud guitar, or unshaven guys yelling, and think that it's the coolest thing ever. (Sorry, that should be "COOLEZT THING EVA!!!" :-) ). Top Thrill Dragster is all of that - uncreatively wrapped up in some steel and hydraulic fluid. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Sometimes a * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** parrot talks! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From the_zonga@yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 18:39:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: the_zonga@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31290 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 01:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 01:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53206.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.222) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 01:39:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20040715013936.37020.qmail@web53206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.13.60.21] by web53206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:39:36 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:39:36 -0700 (PDT) To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.222 From: Austin Padilla Subject: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190726613 X-Yahoo-Profile: the_zonga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look, I am bored, so name your favorite roller coaster. Ever. It has to be one you have ridden. Mine is..... Ninja at SFMM. Zonga --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MrStratosphere@aol.com Wed Jul 14 19:14:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46629 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 02:14:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 02:14:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 02:14:13 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.138.3179d6ce (4560) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <138.3179d6ce.2e27424f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:13:35 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.38 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/2004 6:44:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_zonga@yahoo.com writes: Look, I am bored, so name your favorite roller coaster. Ever. It has to be one you have ridden. Mine is..... Ninja at SFMM. Zonga Okay well this might bring up a debate, Is to all of you X-Scream a coaster or not? It's a car that coasts on a piviting arm that extends 30 ft over the edge of the Stratosphere Tower in Vegas? If not it is definately my favorite flat ride. In other normal coaster, Phoenix, Knoebeles, Elysberg, PA John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 22:10:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14369 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 05:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 05:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 05:10:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 05:00:32 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:00:27 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <138.3179d6ce.2e27424f@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1195 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: > In a message dated 7/14/2004 6:44:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > the_zonga@y... writes: > Look, I am bored, so name your favorite roller coaster. > Ever. It has to be one you have ridden. > > Mine is..... > > > Ninja at SFMM. > > Zonga > Okay well this might bring up a debate, Is to all of you X-Scream a coaster > or not? It's a car that coasts on a piviting arm that extends 30 ft over the > edge of the Stratosphere Tower in Vegas? If not it is definately my favorite > flat ride. > In other normal coaster, > Phoenix, Knoebeles, Elysberg, PA > > John > Mr. Stratosphere Two opinions requested at the same time? Let the flaming begin! X-scream: Not a coaster. Even Superman the Escape (6FMM) the cars change orientaion 90 degrees, and that BARELY is a coaster. 30 feet in a straight line and back doesn't break my threshold. Even if it cycles twice. Sorry, John. Millenium Force gets my heart pumping in a way neither Phoenix (Knoebels) nor Cyclone (Astroland) do. Also a more "complete" ride than any Thrust Air, or Intamin launch coaster. Dragon Khan, is #4, and #1 with inversions. Chris B From lance@screamscape.com Wed Jul 14 22:27:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6198 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 05:27:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 05:27:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 05:27:40 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6F5Rdm2090934 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 58340 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 05:27:39 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 05:27:39 -0000 Message-ID: <030601c46a2c$78605160$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:27:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > i think its going to hurt Intamin more than anything else. 2 highly > publicized accidents of their rides on one year? So far we're got three accidents and plenty of bad publicity for Intamin so far in 2004... 1) Death on Hydro at Oakwood 2) Death on Superman: Ride of Steel at SFNE 3) Superman at SFA and SFDL shut down to make alterations due to the much publicied death at SFNE... 4) Technical problems plaging Storm Runner at Hersheypark 5) Top Thrill Dragster still suffering from downtime issues one year later 6) California shuts down Xcelerator & Superman: The Escape because they don't trust the Intamin lap bar after the SFNE and Oakwood deaths. 7) Dragster sheers launch cable and bloodies riders. All this and we're only half way through the summer!! From MrStratosphere@aol.com Wed Jul 14 22:49:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12220 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 05:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 05:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 05:49:04 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.8c.fa9b29a (4560) for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c.fa9b29a.2e2774ca@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:48:58 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.38 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/2004 10:11:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, munkye1972@yahoo.com writes: Let the flaming begin! X-scream: Not a coaster. Even Superman the Escape (6FMM) the cars change orientaion 90 degrees, and that BARELY is a coaster. 30 feet in a straight line and back doesn't break my threshold. Even if it cycles twice. Sorry, John. no problem i knew that would happen well here is more info, X-Scream has a 65ft length of track which the car traverses 4 times in each direction 65 x 8 = 520ft of travel, still makes a great flat ride. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 23:26:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7032 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 06:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 06:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.108) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 06:26:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 06:26:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:26:24 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8c.fa9b29a.2e2774ca@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 837 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.108 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 > X-scream: Not a coaster. Even Superman the Escape (6FMM) the cars > change orientaion 90 degrees, and that BARELY is a coaster. 30 feet > in a straight line and back doesn't break my threshold. Even if it > cycles twice. Sorry, John. > no problem i knew that would happen well here is more info, X- Scream has a > 65ft length of track which the car traverses 4 times in each direction 65 x 8 = > 520ft of travel, still makes a great flat ride. > John > Mr. Stratosphere Hey, Mr Stratosphere, you missed an adjective opportunity: Still make a great ELEVATED flat ride. How long is the train? Unless there's only one row, no one actually gets to travel the entire 65 feet of track. Well, if the brakes failed, the back row would, but I don't think that'd make anyone too happy. Sorry if nobody finds that funny. :( Chris B From the_zonga@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 02:16:03 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: the_zonga@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84247 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 09:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 09:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web53210.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.226) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 09:16:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20040715091556.82542.qmail@web53210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.13.60.21] by web53210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:15:56 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:15:56 -0700 (PDT) To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.226 From: Austin Padilla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190726613 X-Yahoo-Profile: the_zonga Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tuh-duh. I am up late, cannot fall asleep or find anything to do, and I am = a roller coaster addict. When I mixed the three this is what I came up with= to cure my boredom. =20 Below is a list of 64 roller coasters chosen at random. It's sort of a very= corny cheesy version of one of those American Idol things, bu the twist is= it is Coaster Idol. America (rollercoastertalk) starts to vote at the Top = 32. Then Top 12, 11, and so on until one roller coaster conquers all. =20 Tonight, or this morning, I should say, randomly, I will be choosing 32 rol= ler coasters to be eliminated. Below are the "Top 64." =20 Alpengeist Apollo=92s Chariot Batman & Robin: the Chiller Batman: the Ride (SFMM) Batwing Beast Big Bad Wolf Boss Canyon Blaster (AdvDome) Chang Colossus D=E9j=E0 V=FA (SFOG) Face-off Flashback (SFMM) Georgia Scorcher Ghostrider Goliath Great American Scream Machine (SFGAdv) Greezed Lightnin=92 (SFKK) Grizzly HyperSonicXLC Incredible Hulk Judge Roy Scream Kraken Loch Ness Monster Magnum XL-200 Mamba Manhatten Express Mantis Medusa (SFMW) Mega Zeph Millennium Force Mind Bender Mr. Freeze (SFStL) New Mexico Rattler Ninja (SFMM) Nitro Outlaw Poltergeist Raptor Revolution Riddler=92s Revenge Scream! Screamin=92 Eagle Son of Beast Speed: the Ride Stealth Steel Force Storm Runner Superman: Ride of Steel (SFNE) Superman: the Escape Talon Tennessee Tornado Texas Giant Top Gun (PKI) Top Thrill Dragster Twisted Twins V2: Vertical Velocity (SFGAdv) Viper (SFMM) Vortex (PKI) Wicked Twister X Xcelerator Zonga =20 And the first coaster to be eliminated is.... Mega Zeph I'm not really sad to see this SFNO woodie go. Nor am I happy. I've never r= idden it, but it looked kind of cool. =20 The second coaster to be eliminated is.... Xcelerator No way. No freaking way. Thank God there is a Wildcard Round. =20 The third coaster to be eliminated is.... Incredible Hulk =20 The fourth is.... Millennium Force. This elimination is pure evil. Why are so many good coast= ers being eliminated? =20 And fifth.... Revolution. No big whoop, no big heartache. =20 The sixth to be eliminated is.... Texas Giant. Sadness. =20 Lucky seventh eliminated is.... Vortex. First roller coaster with 6 inversions. A truly awesome coaster, PKI's best= . (Along with Son of Beast and Top Gun) =20 Elimination eight.... Batman & Robin: the Chiller. Not so sure I am happy with this, but, I can't= stop these stupid random eliminations. =20 Number nine elimated is.... Chang AAAAAhhhhh!!!!! Best stand-up is eliminated. NNNNNOOOOOO. =20 The tenth coaster to be eliminated is.... Greezed Lightnin'. Wow, to SFKKs in a row. For those of you who don't know,= Greezed Lightnin' is Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom's shuttle loop, similar to= Montezooma's Revenge at Knott's. =20 Eleventh elimination goes to.... Manhatten Express. Awww. =20 Twelvth is.... Ninja. Six Flags Magic Mountain's Suspended Swinging Coaster. This is the f= unnest roller coaster I have ever been on. It is my favorite roller coaster= ever. I do hope it is back for the WildCard round. =20 Thirteenth...the unlucky elimination goes to.... Son of Beast. This speaks for itself, I think. =20 Fourteenth eliminated.... Zonga. This SFMW coaster is TRULY awesome. =20 Number 15 is.... Grizzly =20 Sweet sixteenth eliminated is.... Poltergeist. Three words. Linear. Induction. Motors. =20 Stay tuned for more. =20 =20 =20 =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 02:53:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66521 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 09:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 09:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.99) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 09:53:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.143] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 09:53:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:53:54 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040715091556.82542.qmail@web53210.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 637 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.99 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: RE: Boredom X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Austin Padilla wrote: > Tuh-duh. I am up late, cannot fall asleep or find anything to do, and I am a roller coaster addict. When I mixed the three this is what I came up with to cure my boredom. Yes, you are bored. I barely know what American Idol is, but from what I understand of it eliminating good contestants for approximately no reason is an integral aspect. Your eliminations do the show justice. (I think.) Chris B This weekend: Yokohama Cosmoworld, and maybe Tama Tech and Tokyo Summerland. Next week: Space World, Uminonakamichi Seaside Park and Kashiikaen. From RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Thu Jul 15 03:16:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18639 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 10:16:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 10:16:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 10:16:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 10:14:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 34690 invoked by uid 65534); 15 Jul 2004 10:14:48 -0000 Date: 15 Jul 2004 10:14:48 -0000 Message-ID: <1089886488.1092.34616.w14@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for RollerCoasterTalk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.102 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the RollerCoasterTalk group: Best COASTERS. Not the company, but based on enjoyment of the rides made. Downtime is NOT a factor. Vote for no more than three, Please. o Arrow Dynamics o Bolliger & Mabillard o CCI o Gertslauer o GCI o IB Stengel o Intamin AG o Maurer Sohne o Morgan o PTC o S&S o Schmeck o Schwartzkopf o TOGO o Vekoma o W E Disney o Other To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RollerCoasterTalk/surveys?id=1308674 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From bethtoons@gmail.com Thu Jul 15 05:52:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34591 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 12:52:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 12:52:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.253) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 12:52:10 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so2418164cwb for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.3 with SMTP id v3mr197197cwb; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071505526031ebdb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:52:08 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3774878.1089895688289.JavaMail.turbine@s75> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3774878.1089895688289.JavaMail.turbine@s75> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.253 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: NEWS: Man drowns in amusement park X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons Ok, this is only mildly on-topic because he was in the lake at the park... What disturbs me is the quote from his coworker. It makes it sound like they left him out there for 15-20 minutes before anyone did anything to try to help him. -------------------- Man dies in amusement park -------------------- July 15, 2004, 8:09 AM EDT MIDDLEBURY, Conn. -- A 19-year-old camp counselor from Brooklyn, N.Y. has drowned at the Lake Quassapaug Amusement Park. Police Lt. Richard Guisti confirmed the victim was pronounced dead at Waterbury Hospital at 10:30 p.m Wednesday, just a few hours after he had been pulled from the lake waters. The victim was identified as Yossel Leichter, a counselor who had come to the park with about 200 children from two Jewish day camps, according to Ben Wezberger, another counselor. Police received a call at 8:20 p.m. there was a drowning victim who was unconscious at the park. Wezberger, 20, said his co-worker went under water and started flailing his arms when people on shore noticed him. "Someone on shore said that it was just a joke and he was faking it," Wezberger said. "Fifteen or 20 minutes later he still had not come up." The victim was brought to shore by Lake Quassapaug lifeguards before police officers or paramedics arrived. ___ Copyright (c) 2004, The Associated Press -------------------- This article originally appeared at: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct-brf--quassydrownin0715jul15,0,4862606.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire From bethtoons@gmail.com Thu Jul 15 05:53:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19020 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 12:53:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 12:53:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.240) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 12:53:07 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so142166cwb for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.57 with SMTP id x57mr45418cwb; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071505532ff1e6f7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:53:04 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.240 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: TR: Magic Springs 07/01/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons From Branson, it was about a 3 1/2 hour drive to Little Rock, where I spent the night. My brother who called early to let me know he'd proposed to his girlfriend at sunrise woke me up early, and I set off for Hot Springs a couple hours later. Even at park opening, it was obvious that it was going to be a very hot and humid day, which I would expect to encounter in Arkansas in July. It was also threatening rain, so the park was pretty empty all day. It was less than $5 to park, and I was able to pull right up to the gate, bought my ticket and was in the park shortly after opening. There's an open entrance area with the majority of the amusement park off to the right and the majority of the water park straight ahead and to the left. The one exception is a path that runs between the parking lot and the water park out to the Arkansas Twister and the Amphitheater. There's another path that runs behind the water park, but it was blocked off during my visit making it a long out of the way haul across the park just to ride the woodie. I made my way into the amusement park side of the park. This side of the park basically wraps around a small lake, with a couple of offshoot dead end paths and a covered bridge over part of the lake. It also sits down in a bit of a valley. The hill back out of the valley into the rest of the park seemed like a fairly brutal climb, especially later in the day with as hot and humid as the day was. I decided to ride the new SLC, Gauntlet, first. This is recessed further off one of the side paths from the park in an open area, and the coaster is quite bright in yellow with red supports. The coaster is visible from the highway coming towards the park, but it is not easily visible from within the other areas of the park. With no one in the park, there was no line, so I took a front seat ride. It was one of the better SLCs I've ridden, but it was still a SLC. I basically hit the 5 coasters first, as I was kind of curious to see if I could get to all of them in the first hour I was in the park. The next stop was the Diamond Mine Run family/kiddie coaster. The coaster is decently themed for a kiddie coaster, and was one of the better kiddie coasters of the week. It has a small station towards the back of the space, and the entrance path goes under one of the small hills. From the Diamond Mine Run, I then stopped at the Twist N' Shout, a heavily braked portable Zamperla Mouse tucked away at the edge of the lake. It was fun, but one of the tamer mice I've ridden. I stopped at the mine train, Big Bad John, next. This one was a three-lift arrow mine train through the woods. Aside from the lifts, there really wasn't a whole lot to it, a couple small drops and a couple low to the ground helices. It did have a nice setting. That was 4 coasters in less than 40 minutes. A ten minute walk clear to the other side of the park, and I was able to get in the last coaster in the park within the hour. I was starting to worry that there wasn't going to be a single redeemable coaster in the park and I would be stuck reriding the SLC or the mouse all day until I got out to this one. Maybe they've isolated it so that the cooties from the other coasters don't affect it or something. It wasn't the best out and back woodie ever, but it was a decent woodie tucked into the corner of the park with a great scenic view of Hot Springs and the mountains, and the only coaster in the park I rode more than twice. So, I'd been in the park an hour, and covered all the coasters. I spent the remainder of the afternoon sampling the rest of the amusement park rides. They had a nice wave swinger, a nautical-themed carousel, a space shot, a nice car ride, and a handful of other flats. Late in the afternoon, I caught a magic show that wasn't as bad as the one at StL, and not nearly as good as the one at Celebration City but not horrible considering it was in a pavilion with a bad sound system in a fairly small park in Arkansas on a hot, muggy weekday. Another lap catching a reride on the mine train and some more rides on the Arkansas Twister and I left earlier than I'd planned to get out of the heat and humidity. I probably could have made it a fuller day in the park had I utilized the water park. But it was nice to get to my next hotel early and get some extra sleep that night. The park was pleasant, decently landscaped, and had quite a bit of shade that didn't really help a lot with the humidity. Granted, I expected the humidity since I was in Arkansas in July, but I'd have preferred to not deal with it. The coaster collection was mostly forgettable; it was sort of the PCW of smaller non-chain parks. I'm not scrambling my pennies together to get there again right away, but if I pass through the area again I'd probably stop at the park again. Beth From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 15 06:00:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23454 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:00:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.252] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 12:58:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:58:36 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <030601c46a2c$78605160$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 284 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > 4) Technical problems plaging Storm Runner at Hersheypark i havent heard anything about this. whats going on with it? i was under the impression it was running about as well as Xcelerator was. yes? no? From bethtoons@gmail.com Thu Jul 15 06:04:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64435 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.244) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:04:09 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so414494cwb for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.53 with SMTP id v53mr197372cwb; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f3040715055739860414@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:57:28 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.244 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: TR: Libertyland 07/02/2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons When in Memphis, one must embrace the cheesiness of tourist trap attractions, suck up any sense of pride and sanity and visit Graceland. And after a morning of surrounding myself with Elvis memorabilia, I as a self respecting coaster geek, then made the 15-minute drive across town to ride Elvis' favorite coaster. Libertyland is another small park, it's sort of tucked into a neighborhood, I drove through a few to get to it anyway, and wraps around an arena. After paying my admission and walking through the small "main street" that contains a replica of freedom hall in Pennsylvania as it's train station, a small poorly stocked gift shop, and a food stand all with facades that matched. The park's drop tower is also set up in this area. Beyond the main street, the signature ride in the park is the Zippin Pippin coaster, an ACE coaster classic out and back woodie that labels itself as Elvis' favorite and the second oldest operating woodie in the country. There is a decent amount of info on the signs in the station, not only noting that the coaster was a favorite, but also that he rented out the park and spent two hours riding the coaster 8 days before he died. With that reassuring thought in my head, I made my way into the queue. This is one of those coasters that is fun to watch the operators run, as there are still the manual controls, and it was taking the full body weight of both operators to disengage the station brakes and get the train out to the lift. I took my first ride in the first open seat I encountered and rode near the middle. The coaster was a nice classic, gave a good ride and had a fair bit of airtime. When I walked around to ride again, I queued for a backseat ride. They were having difficulties with the lapbar in the front seat, and the ops were leaving it as the last one to check before dispatch so that they could put some extra effort into getting the bar down. This worked ok the first few times I saw it dispatch, but on my second ride, they forgot to return to the front seat before they dispatched. Fortunately, the op caught his mistake as the train was rolling out of the station and e-stopped us on the lift. It took a few minutes to fix the restraint and reset the ride and we were sent through. We were allowed a reride as a compensation for the stop. The whole thing obviously freaked out the op and the people sitting at the front of the train, but he still seemed to handle the situation quickly and professionally. From Zippin, I took a ride on the carousel, than made my way to the back of the park. There is a decent sized kids area with several kids rides and a sizable playground. Beyond this, is a log flume, and the very open Arrow loopscrew called Revolution. Revolution was by far one of the smoothest loopscrews I've ridden. My ears stayed intact and I actually took a second ride. There wasn't much else in the park that caught my interest, but as I was walking back towards the entrance, I noticed the drop tower. I'm not sure who makes this model (I'm sure someone will tell me), but it has maybe 8 seats that form a half-circle around the front of the tower. The tower was of a decent height and the drop was relatively quiet and forceful without being painful. I walked around the park once more, stopped in the gift shop and headed out to make the drive to St Louis. Libertyland wasn't a big park by any means. It also wasn't very busy when I visited. Both of the park's coasters were fun, fit well in a park this size, and were comfortably reridable and aside from one lapbar on Zippin seemed well maintained. It was a pleasant park; it had that distinct feel of an established older park and gave off a good family oriented park vibe. I had a pleasant few hours visiting. Beth From jay@karenandjay.com Thu Jul 15 06:30:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59512 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:30:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:29:21 -0700 Message-Id: <200407150629.AA2940272760@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: QUES: Another BTMR accident? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme Shortly before the TTD accident, was there another death at a Disney park on Big Thunder Mountain? I heard a rumor, but haven't been able to confirm it. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 06:32:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48732 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:32:57 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bl6LF-00057n-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:32:05 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:32:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:00:27 -0000, munkye1972 wrote: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: >> Look, I am bored, so name your favorite roller coaster. >> Ever. It has to be one you have ridden. >> Okay well this might bring up a debate, Is to all of you X-Scream a > coaster >> or not? > > X-scream: Not a coaster. Even Superman the Escape (6FMM) the cars > change orientaion 90 degrees, and that BARELY is a coaster. 30 feet > in a straight line and back doesn't break my threshold. Even if it > cycles twice. Sorry, John. As much as I enjoyed the ride (and trust me, I enjoyed it Xtremely (heh, sorry for the bad pun there), I'd still classify it as a flat ride myself. Has nothing to do with the old S:TE argument though, nor in how long the track is, but more in how it operates as a whole. However, I have overheard some that would consider it a coaster. As for what is my favorite, Phoenix still sits on top of my rankings, but only barely. I got to ride it at night after it had been raining a bit, while Thunderhead at Dollywood was only during the morning. And I think the conditions may be the only thing keeping Phoenix up there, even with it's extreme amount of airtime. X at SFMM comes in third. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 06:34:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56712 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:34:58 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bl6O1-0005kb-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:34:57 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:34:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:26:24 -0000, munkye1972 wrote: > > How long is the train? Unless there's only one row, no one actually > gets to travel the entire 65 feet of track. > Well, if the brakes failed, the back row would, but I don't think > that'd make anyone too happy. > Sorry if nobody finds that funny. :( Actually, they do all travel the full length of the track, as at the ends of the ride the train sticks out over the edge of the track. I've got a nice shot of the ride from the observation level of the tower, right where it drops down in front of the window, where you can see the "train" on the ride sticking out fully two rows past the end of the track. Quite frightening when you're sitting on one of those rows, especialy the front, looking straight down 900 feet. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 06:39:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73216 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:39:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:39:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:39:28 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bl6SO-0006ON-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:39:28 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <030601c46a2c$78605160$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:39:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: <030601c46a2c$78605160$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:27:49 -0400, Lance Hart wrote: > 4) Technical problems plaging Storm Runner at Hersheypark I'm with Chris on this. What I'd heard was that it was running pretty reliably, and haven't heard anything about big problems plaguing it. So what's the scoop? > 5) Top Thrill Dragster still suffering from downtime issues one year > later > 6) California shuts down Xcelerator & Superman: The Escape because > they don't trust the Intamin lap bar after the SFNE and Oakwood deaths. In all fairness, Superman wasn't shut down for this. It was already shut down, and will remain shut down for a long period, due to completely unrelated reasons. SFMM just paid some good lip service to it in claiming that they were shutting it down for that. Additionally, as I understood it, it was a request from the state to look at it, and not a requirement. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From jay@karenandjay.com Thu Jul 15 06:42:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14386 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:42:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:40:38 -0700 Message-Id: <200407150640.AA468386242@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme >The nice thing about the S&S rides is that technically they are based on >the same technology that they have up and running around the world < Yes, but don't the S&S launched coasters also use a cable? There sure is one on Hypersonic. What would be the difference? The length? The cable for TTD must be over 200 feet long, while Hypersonic's is much shorter. But even so, to get to 120mph so that the train could make it over the hill -- I can't imagine the severe g-forces from an S&S launch, unless the acceleration could come more gradually. TTD was certainly smooth; I felt very comfortable during the launch. I can't say that about Hypersonic. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 06:43:33 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87993 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:43:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:43:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:43:33 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bl6Vw-00076b-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:43:08 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <200407150629.AA2940272760@karenandjay.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:43:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200407150629.AA2940272760@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] QUES: Another BTMR accident? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:29:21 -0700, Jay Ducharme wrote: > Shortly before the TTD accident, was there another death at a Disney > park on Big > Thunder Mountain? > I heard a rumor, but haven't been able to confirm it. No, no death. There were 4 people that received minor injuries (Whiplash was about the most serious of them) when a train entering the station was diverted to the wrong side and bumped into another train already sitting in the station. BTMR has a two sided loaded station, and they aren't sure why the train was sent to the side with a train in it as opposed to the empty side of it. Of course, this is the third accident in less than a year, and the second involving passengers. So the ride is closed down, again, for an extended period while they figure out what went wrong this time. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 15 06:58:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19407 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 13:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 13:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 13:58:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 13:58:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:58:07 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 280 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: RCT3 website X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 hey, dont know if this have been posted or not, but looks like Atari has a site up fro the upcoming RCT3. check out the coaster cams videos-man, this game looks great. now i only hope my computer can handle the graphics. http://www.atari.com/rollercoastertycoon/us/index.php From dougjnelson@comcast.net Thu Jul 15 07:00:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94505 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 14:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 14:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 14:00:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 13:59:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:59:22 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 441 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: RCT3 website X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Nelson" wrote: > hey, dont know if this have been posted or not, but looks like Atari > has a site up fro the upcoming RCT3. check out the coaster cams > videos-man, this game looks great. now i only hope my computer can > handle the graphics. > > http://www.atari.com/rollercoastertycoon/us/index.php there is also a new july trailer. sorry, just had to add that. From lance@screamscape.com Thu Jul 15 07:04:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48560 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 14:04:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 14:04:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 14:04:53 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6FE4l8V056985 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 13742 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 14:03:47 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 14:03:47 -0000 Message-ID: <023d01c46a74$9369c6b0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <030601c46a2c$78605160$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:03:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > > 4) Technical problems plaging Storm Runner at Hersheypark > > I'm with Chris on this. What I'd heard was that it was running pretty > reliably, and haven't heard anything about big problems plaguing it. So > what's the scoop? Reports I've been getting are identical to what happened at CP last season. Good days and bad days... it often doesn't open until the afternoon or will break and close early for the rest of the day. One source who claims to work there says they've only had maybe 4 or 5 days this season where it ran without problem. > > 6) California shuts down Xcelerator & Superman: The Escape because > > they don't trust the Intamin lap bar after the SFNE and Oakwood deaths. > > In all fairness, Superman wasn't shut down for this. It was already shut > down, and will remain shut down for a long period, due to completely > unrelated reasons. SFMM just paid some good lip service to it in claiming > that they were shutting it down for that. Additionally, as I understood > it, it was a request from the state to look at it, and not a requirement. No it was a requirement by DOSH. They basiclly red-tagged Xcelerator and Superman:TE just as they have done with Big Thunder. When the state says your shut down, a park can't open a ride even if they want to. Superman was shut down already, true, apparently in a DOSH related problem, but they were tagged for the lap bar problem as well with Xcelerator. From Rob@issler.com Thu Jul 15 07:47:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bob@issler.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37348 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 14:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 14:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO corvette.websitewelcome.com) (69.93.59.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 14:47:37 -0000 Received: from pcp01379394pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net ([68.81.94.130] helo=Bobs) by corvette.websitewelcome.com with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Bl7WL-0002XE-Q8 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:47:37 -0500 To: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:47:21 -0400 Message-ID: <045001c46a7a$a6140220$0502a8c0@Bobs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - corvette.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - issler.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.93.59.34 X-eGroups-From: "bob18940" From: "bob18940" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145455773 X-Yahoo-Profile: rob18940 > > 4) Technical problems plaging Storm Runner at Hersheypark > > I'm with Chris on this. What I'd heard was that it was running pretty > reliably, and haven't heard anything about big problems plaguing it. So > what's the scoop? The ride has had some major issues opening, and some days closes early. From Rob@issler.com Thu Jul 15 07:51:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bob@issler.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69501 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 14:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 14:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO corvette.websitewelcome.com) (69.93.59.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 14:51:42 -0000 Received: from pcp01379394pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net ([68.81.94.130] helo=Bobs) by corvette.websitewelcome.com with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Bl7aG-0000xo-3a for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:51:40 -0500 To: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:51:30 -0400 Message-ID: <045901c46a7b$39dc5840$0502a8c0@Bobs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <200407150640.AA468386242@karenandjay.com> Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - corvette.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - issler.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 69.93.59.34 X-eGroups-From: "bob18940" From: "bob18940" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145455773 X-Yahoo-Profile: rob18940 > >The nice thing about the S&S rides is that technically they are based on > >the same technology that they have up and running around the world < > > Yes, but don't the S&S launched coasters also use a cable? There sure is > one on Hypersonic. What would be the difference? The length? The cable= =20 > or TTD must be over 200 feet long, while Hypersonic's is much shorter. > > But even so, to get to 120mph so that the train could make it over the=20 > hill - - I can't imagine the severe g-forces from an S&S launch, unless=20 > the acceleration could come more gradually. TTD was certainly smooth; I= =20 > felt very comfortable during the launch. I can't say that about=20 > Hypersonic. > > Jay The S&S launch is already hitting 120 mph in Old Town http://orlandorocks.com/info.asp?location=3DKissimmee&attraction=3Dgforce&t= ype=3Do verview From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 08:24:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1698 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 15:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 15:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52901.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.178) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 15:24:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20040715152451.44378.qmail@web52901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:24:51 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:24:51 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1089886488.1092.34616.w14@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.178 From: Adam Sandy Subject: Re: New poll for RollerCoasterTalk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Not to be picky...but you really can't pit Stengel against companies like Intamin, Gerstlauer, B&M, Schwarzkopf, etc., since his degree of involvement varies with each manufacturer. Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From MrStratosphere@aol.com Thu Jul 15 09:04:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93098 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 16:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 16:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:04:04 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.33.4a6078e7 (4560) for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33.4a6078e7.2e2803f0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:59:44 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.3 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/2004 11:27:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, munkye1972@yahoo.com writes: Hey, Mr Stratosphere, you missed an adjective opportunity: Still make a great ELEVATED flat ride. How long is the train? Unless there's only one row, no one actually gets to travel the entire 65 feet of track. Well, if the brakes failed, the back row would, but I don't think that'd make anyone too happy. Sorry if nobody finds that funny. :( Chris B True is is a great elevated flat ride, if the brakes failed going back i would be taken with it, we work closely to the ride, ask George he was there, on all the rides we work close with them, but i trust our rides and i feel safe there, and X-Screams breaks are fail safe just like the restraints. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aelk2004@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 09:09:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7921 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 16:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 16:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:08:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.131] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jul 2004 16:04:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:04:45 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7542 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: NEWS: Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 This a repost from Al Lutz (take it for what's worth). I know some of you will be quite happy to see this happen. -Alan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California http://www.miceage.com Al Lutz's update News began to spread amongst Disneyland CM's (cast members) that a radical rethinking of the parks FastPass strategy had just been approved by Team Disney Anaheim (TDA), and that those changes would be coming sooner than anyone thought. Beginning Monday, July 12th they were conducting a "test" by not offering FastPass at Pirates of the Caribbean or the Haunted Mansion. The FastPass machines at those two rides have been covered up, and they have tried to restore as much of the original queue setup at those two rides as they could with such short notice. But there are other radical changes coming to all of the Resorts FastPass locations, besides this "test" at Pirates and Mansion. Before we get to those however, it would probably help explain the current Team Disney Anaheim (TDA) mindset behind these big changes if we go back a few years to the beginning of FastPass. In early 1999 Paul Pressler had just become Disney's parks and resorts chief, and Cynthia Harriss had assumed the role she was being groomed for by Paul as Disneyland's president. Paul was enamored of a new concept for a ride reservation system that seemed to be the answer to the consistent customer complaint at Disney parks; the lines are too long. FastPass looked to Paul as though it could be the answer to customer dissatisfaction without having to actually spend capital on pesky new rides and attractions for which neither he nor Cynthia had much passion for. And so Paul and Cynthia both latched on to the slick PowerPoint presentations created by the marketing and finance departments that showed FastPass would increase both the customer spending numbers as well as the customer satisfaction numbers. There were still folks working for Paul and Cynthia though that had a great deal of experience in operations management of Disney parks, and they were more skeptical of the wonders of FastPass as touted by the marketing department. One of those people was Al Weiss, the Walt Disney World (WDW) president who felt that too much FastPass would likely overwhelm a parks infrastructure and literal design intent, especially at his older Magic Kingdom park. Cynthia, on the other hand, just about tripped over herself to support Paul's FastPass plan and couldn't get FastPass installed fast enough at Disneyland. Despite objections from her operations management teams, Cynthia instructed her executives to approve a massive slew of FastPass installation projects in 2000. Practically every E-Ticket in the park had FastPass installed on it, and even a few D-Tickets like Roger Rabbit and Autopia got the FastPass treatment. The only E-Ticket that seemed to escape FastPass was the Matterhorn, and that was only because the cost estimates kept soaring with every fiscal years proposal to radically redisign the Matterhorn queue and boarding area to make it FastPass friendly. Fast forward to 2003 and Paul Pressler suddenly resigns to go to The Gap, and is replaced by Jay Rasulo. Jay Rasulo has a very different style than Pressler, and Jay takes a hard look at the '03 numbers now that FastPass has been established for several years. Jay is surprised to learn that not only did the quantum leaps in customer spending and satisfaction failed to materialize for the most part, but that Disneyland is now saddled with rising customer complaints stemming from the overburdened infrastructure issues caused by FastPass. It seems Cynthia never did quite see the writing on the wall regarding FastPass, and up until the very end she refused to even consider implementing the limited operating strategy that had been successful in the Florida parks for several years. In October of '03 Cynthia suddenly resigned to send more time with her family and FedEx her resume to The Gap's headquarters up in San Francisco. And that brings us to Jay Rasulo's hand-picked successor to Cynthia, Matt Ouimet. We've mentioned here earlier this year that Matt was unimpressed with FastPass and would be looking at it with a critical eye. And after listening to his operations management in the parks, something Cynthia rarely did, Matt gave the go ahead to radically rethink the way Disneyland and California Adventure (DCA) offer FastPass to its customers. Following here are some of the changes currently approved for FastPass attractions in Anaheim. Read 'em and weep FastPass ticket collectors: Pirates of the Caribbean will no longer offer FastPass, effective immediately. In September the marquee will have all references removed, the machines will be removed, and the queue will be restored to its pre-FastPass condition. The Haunted Mansion will keep its FastPass machines closed for 9 months out of the year. Haunted Mansion will only offer FastPass during the Haunted Mansion Holiday season, and even then there may be slower weekdays when it is not offered. Winnie The Pooh will have its FastPass operation permanently removed in the fall, and minor queue modifications will be made. It is still undecided whether or not Splash Mountain will move back to its old FastPass distribution area where the Pooh machines currently are. Big Thunder Mountain will continue to offer FastPass, although it will not offer it on slower weekdays. Roger Rabbit will continue to offer FastPass as the only FastPass attraction in the northern half of the park, although it will not offer it on slower weekdays. It's a small world holiday will not offer FastPass again. This Christmas season they will restore the queue they used during 1997-99 before FastPass. Star Tours will have its FastPass operation permanently removed in the fall. Autopia will continue to offer FastPass, although it will only be offered on weekends and during busy seasons. Indiana Jones and Splash Mountain will continue to offer FastPass, although there will be slower weekdays in the off season when it is not offered at either attraction. Space Mountain and Buzz Lightyear will both open in 2005 with FastPass. They plan to evaluate whether to keep FastPass on Buzz Lightyear later in 2006. The changes at DCA have primarily taken place already: The FastPass areas were shuttered at It's Tough to be a Bug and MuppetVision earlier this year, and the machines will be permanently removed this fall. Who Wants to be a Millionaire - Play It! will have its FastPass removed this fall, and the attraction itself may not last too long into 2005. All of the other DCA attractions will retain their current FastPass setups, however there will be slower days in the off season when it will not be offered on some or all of those attractions. Those are some pretty big changes, don't you think? Matt and his executives are fully prepared to receive some fairly nasty complaint letters for a couple of months, but Matt is convinced that this is the right thing to do for the long term good of both parks. Especially at those big E Ticket attractions like Pirates that can consistently cycle through 2,750 riders per hour, it makes sense from just about any angle you look at it. But it's just one more example of Matt and his hand picked executives being willing to make some tough decisions that will benefit the park and its patrons in the long term. From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 09:16:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88659 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 16:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 16:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 16:16:16 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bl8u6-0000T0-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:16:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:16:12 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <33.4a6078e7.2e2803f0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <33.4a6078e7.2e2803f0@aol.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.120 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:59:44 EDT, wrote: > True is is a great elevated flat ride, if the brakes failed going back i > would be taken with it, we work closely to the ride, ask George he was > there, on > all the rides we work close with them, but i trust our rides and i feel > safe > there, and X-Screams breaks are fail safe just like the restraints. That was one thing that did surprise me quite a bit. When John says they work close to the rides, he means they work CLOSE to the rides. They're practically standing on XScream's platform when the ride is in motion, and could easily reach out and touch the riders during the ride if they wanted to. And on Big Shot, it's so pressed for room that if you stick your leg out straight, and the ride op were to put their arms out straight in front of them, you could probably touch. About the closest quarters I've seen for operating a ride. But then when you're on top of a narrow tower, that's to be expected a bit. I was very impressed with how careful they were though, in spite of the close quarters, and with the tremendous heighth. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From spartankicker@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 10:13:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: spartankicker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61086 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 17:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 17:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web81702.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.133) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 17:13:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20040715171326.64319.qmail@web81702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.109.2.44] by web81702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:13:26 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:13:26 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040715013936.37020.qmail@web53206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.133 From: Bryan Wood Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120409146 X-Yahoo-Profile: spartankicker --- Austin Padilla wrote: > Look, I am bored, so name your favorite roller > coaster. > Ever. It has to be one you have ridden. For me, it's Phoenix at Knoebel's. Amazing airtime, just a flat-out fun ride. In terms of steel coasters, it's Phantom's Revenge followed by Apollo's Chariot. -Bryan ===== I'm Bryan Wood, and I approve of this message. spartankicker@yahoo.com From jzucker@alpha-sys.com Thu Jul 15 10:32:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: JZucker@alpha-sys.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4648 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 17:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 17:32:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO is?server.ALPHA?IS) (12.41.14.41) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 17:32:10 -0000 Received: by mail.alpha-sys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:33:23 -0400 Message-ID: <7E69B3E42D005149A8989DA9F57DE33FC10D40@mail.alpha-sys.com> To: "CoasterTalk (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:33:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 12.41.14.41 From: Jon Zucker Subject: NEWS: Tsunami sets date X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192106588 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 Clementon Park's website (www.clementonpark.com) now has a splash screen advertising that Tsunami will open in 15 days (works out to about July 30). I'm looking forward to that. Jon Z The First ______________________________ This transmittal from Alpha Systems is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review or use, including disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the transmittal. From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 11:42:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37978 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 18:42:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 18:42:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52902.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.179) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 18:42:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20040715184204.42487.qmail@web52902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:42:04 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200407150640.AA468386242@karenandjay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.179 From: Adam Sandy Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > >The nice thing about the S&S rides is that > technically they are based on > >the same technology that they have up and running > around the world < > Yes, but don't the S&S launched coasters also use a > cable? There sure is one on Hypersonic. What > would be the difference? The length? The cable for > TTD must be over 200 feet long, while > Hypersonic's is much shorter. I was actually talking about the pneumatic system as opposed to hydraulic one and the reliability associated with each. As for the cable, I don't know of any major snafus Hypersonic or Dodonpa have had with them. > But even so, to get to 120mph so that the train > could make it over the hill -- I can't imagine the > severe > g-forces from an S&S launch, unless the acceleration > could come more gradually. TTD was certainly > smooth; I felt very comfortable during the launch. > I can't say that about Hypersonic. If a customer wants a pneumatic launch can be made to accelerate slowly and/or go to a top rate of speed less than 80. Adam ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From MrStratosphere@aol.com Thu Jul 15 15:44:13 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81701 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 22:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 22:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 22:44:12 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.9a.f4eaa51 (4560) for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9a.f4eaa51.2e2862b9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:44:09 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.136 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Las Vegas Monorail Opens X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Las Vegas Monorail opened today to rave reviews, you can now travel the strip from the MGM to the Sahara in 14 minutes. 3 bucks a ride, 10 all day pass, 20 3 day pass, &25 20 ride pass, prices will change soon after opening to be cheaper. The ride is great and has a great view of the surrounding area. next extension to the system will be from the Shara, Stratosphere to Downtown, then the next phase (3) will go to the Airport, A great idea and advanced for its time, this monorail has no drivers, totally automated system. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MrStratosphere@aol.com Thu Jul 15 15:52:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 759 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2004 22:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jul 2004 22:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2004 22:52:36 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1cf.25eee518 (4560) for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1cf.25eee518.2e2864af@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:52:31 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.2 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Favorite Roller Coaster? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2004 9:24:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gburnash@earthlink.net writes: That was one thing that did surprise me quite a bit. When John says they work close to the rides, he means they work CLOSE to the rides. They're practically standing on XScream's platform when the ride is in motion, and could easily reach out and touch the riders during the ride if they wanted to. And on Big Shot, it's so pressed for room that if you stick your leg out straight, and the ride op were to put their arms out straight in front of them, you could probably touch. About the closest quarters I've seen for operating a ride. But then when you're on top of a narrow tower, that's to be expected a bit. I was very impressed with how careful they were though, in spite of the close quarters, and with the tremendous heighth. keep on ridin' George Thanks George, we appreciate hearing that we take great care in safety, we are proud of our work and we want our guests to be safe, like today we had to close because of lightning in the valley, not iminant to come to the tower, but enought to close down, i made that decision, and people of couse get aggrivated and curse and yell at us, that is the only part i dont like about there, when we close for weather people become rude and outright unruly. But hey its for safety and that is first. And suprising enough 20 mins after we evacuated the X-Scream, High Roller, and Big Shot, the Big Shot, (worlds highests thrill ride which happens to be the thrill ride in the world to be struck by lightning) was struck by lightning, and how we know? When lighting hits the tower, inside womens hair staticly hangs in the air for a few moments, kinda funny eh? Well i was happy we closed in time so no one had to panic, all in a days work. We are back from our back east trip so a TR will be coming soon. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 18:35:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52223 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 01:35:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 01:35:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 01:35:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 01:34:57 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 01:34:56 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200407150640.AA468386242@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1120 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Ducharme" wrote: > >The nice thing about the S&S rides is that technically they are based on > >the same technology that they have up and running around the world < > > Yes, but don't the S&S launched coasters also use a cable? There sure is one on Hypersonic. What > would be the difference? The length? The cable for TTD must be over 200 feet long, while > Hypersonic's is much shorter. > > But even so, to get to 120mph so that the train could make it over the hill -- I can't imagine the severe > g-forces from an S&S launch, unless the acceleration could come more gradually. TTD was certainly > smooth; I felt very comfortable during the launch. I can't say that about Hypersonic. > > Jay As (probably) the only person on the list who's been on Superman:TE, TTD, H:XLC, and Dodonpa, and I found Super to be the least comfortable. Hyper's G's in the roll to vertical are intense, but TTD's launch G's seem more extreme, although perhaps it is partially the increased wind effect. Is there a cable in S&S launch system? Chris B From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 19:47:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84916 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 02:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 02:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.227) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 02:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 02:47:37 -0000 To: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:47:31 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f3040715055739860414@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.227 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: MISC: Carnie Porn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy For those of you who didn't believe me when I said this ride traveled (and I know there was one or two), here are pictures of the Imperator, which used to be at Prater, being assembled at one of its first spots this year: http://freizeitparkweb.de/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&forum=DCFor umID4&om=5263&omm=21&viewmode=threaded http://www.kirmesgalerie2.fotopic.net/c227930.html In addition, below are links to two videos of the ride taken in 1994. Be forewarned, they are around 50 megs each: http://kamala.gigaglas.nl/~peter/2004/Attracties/Evolution/onride.mpg http://kamala.gigaglas.nl/~peter/2004/Attracties/Evolution/offride.mpg Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 19:50:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49910 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 02:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 02:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 02:50:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.148] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 02:50:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 02:50:12 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 109 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.73 From: "Adam Sandy" X-Originating-IP: 68.33.103.44 Subject: Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy > Is there a cable in S&S launch system? Yes, it is essentially their tower ride turned on its side. Adam From afrsandy@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 20:07:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48530 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 03:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 03:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 03:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 03:06:57 -0000 To: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:06:55 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f3040715055739860414@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.225 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: MISC: A Lawsuit Waiting to Happen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy http://www.bouncersslidesandmore.com/waterslide.htm You too can feel the sting of a massive lawsuit when you put this in your backyard at your kid's party! Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** From MrStratosphere@aol.com Thu Jul 15 20:14:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98381 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 03:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 03:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 03:14:11 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.12d.45ef57b9 (4560) for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12d.45ef57b9.2e28a201@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:14:09 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.136 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2004 6:36:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, munkye1972@yahoo.com writes: As (probably) the only person on the list who's been on Superman:TE, TTD, H:XLC, and Dodonpa, and I found Super to be the least comfortable. Hyper's G's in the roll to vertical are intense, but TTD's launch G's seem more extreme, although perhaps it is partially the increased wind effect. Is there a cable in S&S launch system? Chris B Since the S&S coaster launch is based on the same principles as the verticle towers id imagine there is a cable, how else could they have the pull dog move? unless the dog is on a piston itself. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Thu Jul 15 20:46:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61905 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 03:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 03:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 03:46:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 29135 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jul 2004 03:46:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20040716034651.29134.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:46:51 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "aelk2004" at Jul 15, 2004 04:04:45 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California WOO HOO! Knowing how totally unoriginal the other chains are, they will surely follow. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** It's a little dog, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** named Snuggles. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Thu Jul 15 20:53:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42573 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 03:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 03:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 03:53:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 29185 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jul 2004 03:53:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20040716035328.29184.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:53:28 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "munkye1972" at Jul 16, 2004 01:34:56 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > As (probably) the only person on the list who's been on Superman:TE, > TTD, H:XLC, and Dodonpa, and I found Super to be the least > comfortable. I rode Tower Of Terror in Australia, and didn't find the launch uncomfortable at all .. to be honest, I can't see what you could possibly find uncomfortable about it ... So far it's my favorite launch (of Storm Runner, Vertical Velocity (and Wicked Twister), Rock-N-Roller, and Hulk). I loved how the launch of Tower Of Terror was so drawn out .. the acceleration seemed to just keep going and going, it was awesome! Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** It's a little dog, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** named Snuggles. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 21:00:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17799 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 04:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 04:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.119) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 04:00:00 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BlJtA-0002e2-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:00:00 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <20040716034651.29134.qmail@buzzneon.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:59:57 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040716034651.29134.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.119 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:46:51 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > >> Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California > > WOO HOO! > > Knowing how totally unoriginal the other chains are, they will surely > follow. And I'll be the wierdo and say that in a lot of ways I think it's to bad. On my recent visit to Disneyland, I don't think that I would have managed to get on Tower of Terror or California Screaming if it hadn't been for Fastpass. While I won't deny that the system could certainly use some tweaking, on a personal level I found it extremely useful on a visit to the park and allowed me to do much more than I could have otherwise. I wouldn't mind seeing it change to, perhaps, a qbot style system. After using that SFoG, I'm now a huge, huge fan of it. It honestly, in my opinion, saved my visit at the park and turned it from what could have easily been a miserable experience into a fun filled one where I was able to do everything that I wanted to- something that would have been absolutely impossible without it. keep on ridin' George (who without either system would have been waitin' instead of ridin') -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From gburnash@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 21:05:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13569 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 04:05:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 04:05:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 04:05:04 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BlJxs-0004Ck-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:04:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:04:50 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.54 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: Carnie Porn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:47:31 -0400, Adam Sandy wrote: > For those of you who didn't believe me when I said this ride traveled > (and I > know there was one or two), here are pictures of the Imperator, which > used > to be at Prater, being assembled at one of its first spots this year: After riding the park version of this, I have to admit, I'm impressed. These things are huge, and I never would have imagined that it was actually portable. Leave it to Europe to do so! And for those wondering, this is the same as Xcalibur at SFStL. It was also a ride that Dave, Beth and I all really liked, and was especially fun at the top most part of the cycle. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From IOASpiderman@addrealm.com Thu Jul 15 21:22:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: ioaspiderman@addrealm.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39738 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 04:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 04:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.9) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 04:22:56 -0000 Received: from smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com (smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com [205.188.118.19]) by rly-ip05.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN7-840f75814c6; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:22:44 -0400 Received: from mikedell866 (AC97E7ED.ipt.aol.com [172.151.231.237]) by smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6G4MSs5005119 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:22:36 -0400 Message-ID: <005701c46aed$194d8280$ede797ac@mikedell866> To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:26:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.43 X-Apparently-From: IOASpiderman@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.118.19 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.9 From: "Mike" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=129739118 X-Yahoo-Profile: ioaspiderman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<> In a message dated 7/13/2004 9:49:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lance@s... writes: > How do all of you think this will affect the amusement > industry? i think its going to hurt Intamin more than anything else. 2 highly publicized accidents of their rides on one year?>> Huh? Why would that start to happen now? Intamin has had assloads of problems with their coasters breaking or people getting thrown off or people dying on their rides for the past couple years. I've been saying Intamin is a horrible company for a long time, and most people have always argued against me with the "oh they're fantastic engineers and make a great ride, what are you talking about", although it seems that the parks weren't taking my side either as they would continue to buy their rides, though I can't explain why. Like Knott's / Cedar Fair blamed the Perilous Plunge death on Intamin's faulty engineering, but then they still went out and bought and built Xcelerator and TTD, and I cant remember if Wicked Twister was already built before that happened. Either way, Wicked Twister had to have structural modifications, Xcelerator had to have structural modifications, Intamin lap bars have had to have modifications, and most other Intamin launched coasters have had major problems (S:TE, Volcano). Now, if you are a park owner and want to build a coaster, and you actually do research on your multi-million dollar investment, you have to be a gigantic freaking idiot to think that something built by Intamin that goes 120 mph and 420 feet high isn't going to have major problems, and that is what it seems like has been happening for the past 1.5 years with TTD. I'm sure the general public loves the rides, but I think at some point you have to take quality over the bottom line. I think that any park that buys an Intamin deserves every problem those awfully engineered peices of crap can throw at them. Mike IOASpiderman@addrealm.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Thu Jul 15 21:41:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18751 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 04:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 04:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 04:41:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 29738 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jul 2004 04:41:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20040716044131.29737.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:41:31 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <005701c46aed$194d8280$ede797ac@mikedell866> from "Mike" at Jul 16, 2004 12:26:31 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Hey Mike, > > i think its going to hurt Intamin more than anything else. 2 highly > > publicized accidents of their rides on one year? Actually, I think Intamin will just abandon the U.S market .. which is where all these problems seem to be located. Have any of the European rides suffered as badly as the U.S Intamin hypers? > I've been saying Intamin is a horrible company for a long time, > and most people have always argued against me with the "oh they're > fantastic engineers and make a great ride, what are you talking about" I have been saying the same thing, and received the same results! I should admit that I really do enjoy several of the Intamin rides (their Superman hypers, and Impulse coasters), it really seems like they cut just a few too many corners (no, I'm not implying that I think the rides are dangerous..). What I mean: as a rider I like most of the Intamin rides I've ridden .. as an Engineer, they give me the willies a bit! > although it seems that the parks weren't taking my side either as > they would continue to buy their rides, though I can't explain why. Money! Intamin are cheap .. well, compared to B&M. I'd imagine that an Intamin hyper is substantially cheaper than a B&M hyper (of similar specs). Same with the inverts and loopers. (Of course, Intamin don't add cost with pesky sensors on the restrains, or by using too many supports, etc!). > Now, if you are a park owner and want to build a coaster, and you > actually do research on your multi-million dollar investment, you > have to be a gigantic freaking idiot to think that something built > by Intamin that goes 120 mph and 420 feet high isn't going to have > major problems I hate to sound completely hypocritical here .. but who else could Cedar Fair have turned to to build Dragster?? B&M wouldn't touch it (rumor has it that they turned down Millennium too), and rightly so if you ask me. Vekoma doesn't seem to have a very good relationship with the big park chains, and I don't know if Premier is up to the task (they've only used LIMs anyway .. which would be insane on Dragster). Of course, the real answer to the "who else could Cedar Fair have turned to" question is: They shouldn't have attempted Dragster in the first place. The fault lies 100% with Cedar Fair, not Intamin .. sorry, I know comments like that are grounds for banishment from the coaster community! > I'm sure the general public loves the rides, but I think at some point > you have to take quality over the bottom line. Right .. Cedar Fair could have built anything and the public would love it. I'd bet that they could punch each guest in the gut as they enter the park, and the public would still rave "CEDAR FAIR IS THE ONLY CHAIN WHO HAS THE BALLS TO GO TO THE XTREME!!!!" ;-) [ What to you mean? I'm not a bitter old man..! ] > I think that any park that buys an Intamin deserves every problem > those awfully engineered peices of crap can throw at them. Actually .. my honest opinion (and I have nothing to back it up, other than a 'feeling') is that Intamin do know very well how to engineer quality rides - but just cut costs in order to compete with B&M, only they go too far. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** It's a little dog, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** named Snuggles. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From IOASpiderman@addrealm.com Thu Jul 15 21:54:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: ioaspiderman@addrealm.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79903 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 04:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 04:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 04:54:04 -0000 Received: from smtp-dtc07.proxy.aol.com (smtp-dtc07.proxy.aol.com [205.188.118.20]) by rly-ip03.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-440f75f3fe6; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:53:19 -0400 Received: from mikedell866 (AC97E7ED.ipt.aol.com [172.151.231.237]) by smtp-dtc07.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6G4reLM005693 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:53:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c46af1$748c2260$ede797ac@mikedell866> To: References: <20040714151011.12399.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:57:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.43 X-Apparently-From: IOASpiderman@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.118.20 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.7 From: "Mike" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=129739118 X-Yahoo-Profile: ioaspiderman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<> > my mind real fast is this (if I can explain it > > decently): first, you have kicker tires as the train > > enters the launch track in order to give the launch > > You could actually stop right there. You could simply > use kicker tires (ala Hulk) to propel a moving > vehicle. Right .. but then you get back to using gobs and gobs of power again (ala Hulk). Although Hulk does seem to be more reliable than the Imtamin LIM coasters .. which seems backwards due to all the extra mechanics. I wonder which of the two systems is cheaper to maintain and run.. >> As far as I know, Hulk doesn't use any more power than any of the other systems. I think I remember hearing on a TV show that Hulk uses 3-4 megawatts per launch, and Hypersonic, the Chiller, etc, all use around the same, give a megawatt or two. (Even though Hypersonic uses compressed air, you still need power to compress the air...) The most I've heard is S:TE at 7 megawatts. I would say Hulk is cheaper to maintain and run. If a motor fails, it's not the end of the world, becuase there are a lot of other motors that the extra load will be distributed better, and plus timing isn't as important if one fails like with linear induction motors. Plus I would think Linear Induction motor parts are harder to come by rather than just regular tire driven motor parts, and LIM stuff is probably more expensive to replace when something breaks, especially the magnets. Mike IOASpiderman@addrealm.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lance@screamscape.com Thu Jul 15 22:00:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80276 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 05:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 05:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grenada.globat.com) (216.193.201.33) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 05:00:29 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by grenada.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6G50SKj002675 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 75523 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 05:00:27 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 05:00:27 -0000 Message-ID: <003f01c46af1$d73bce60$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <20040716044131.29737.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 01:00:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.33 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > I hate to sound completely hypocritical here .. but who else could > Cedar Fair have turned to to build Dragster?? B&M wouldn't touch it S&S... and they didn't even give them a courtesy call. From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 22:01:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97893 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 05:01:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 05:01:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 05:01:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.144] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 05:01:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:01:01 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040716035328.29184.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 877 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, cameron@b... wrote: > > > As (probably) the only person on the list who's been on Superman:TE, > > TTD, H:XLC, and Dodonpa, and I found Super to be the least > > comfortable. > > I rode Tower Of Terror in Australia, and didn't find the launch > uncomfortable at all .. to be honest, I can't see what you could > possibly find uncomfortable about it ... So far it's my favorite > launch (of Storm Runner, Vertical Velocity (and Wicked Twister), > Rock-N-Roller, and Hulk). I loved how the launch of Tower Of Terror > was so drawn out .. the acceleration seemed to just keep going > and going, it was awesome! > > Cam. As I understand it ToT's different than Supe. Also I didn't say I didn't like any of them. I like them all. However, seven seconds is a long time to take high G's, especially if you like to breathe! Chris B From MrStratosphere@aol.com Thu Jul 15 22:10:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43105 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 05:09:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 05:09:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 05:09:59 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.7a.5c2b225b (18707) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 01:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a.5c2b225b.2e28bd1d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 01:09:49 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.136 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: MISC: Intimin (Was) TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2004 9:42:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cameron@buzzneon.com writes: I hate to sound completely hypocritical here .. but who else could Cedar Fair have turned to to build Dragster?? B&M wouldn't touch it (rumor has it that they turned down Millennium too), and rightly so if you ask me. Vekoma doesn't seem to have a very good relationship with the big park chains, and I don't know if Premier is up to the task (they've only used LIMs anyway .. which would be insane on Dragster). Speaking of Millennium, Millennium hasn't had that many problems right? Well i know that lift cable has broken a few times, but shouldn't the inspections forsee that? And i've always wondered why didn't they just put an emergency stairs instead of another vehicle coming up for inspection and rescue, if that came about, why isn't there stairs there? And if i do recall on the Superman Hypers, one of them had to have rows closed in the summer because the train would cruise right through the magnetic brakes. Why don't they still have friction breaks as a backup? Some of these things still puzzle me. Even for where I work, we see our Ride Engeneers up there, in view of guests, they take care of the rides, they are on site 24 hours a day, and Inspect often, and they ask us how are the rides operating and sounding, and if anything is wrong we are right on the phone with them and explaining things, and i think constant supervision on Dragster could have prevented this, espically with a ride that goes 120. And for the case of Superman in New England. If any question, they could have called someone incharge of the ride, or area of the park, On X-Scream anything questionable we wait and ask for a Lead to help or make a decision, normally because of the types of restraints we have we can make our own judgement, Our restraints have a large black pad which encaptulates your thighs, and another bar to hold your legs. So our judgement is if the belt latches, and the persons feet touch the floor, Pretty reliable and simple to me. And even though the restraint is tight you can still get air. So maybe Interactive Rides is on something here, I would feel comfortable going upside down with those restraints. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 22:14:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71481 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 05:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 05:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 05:14:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.115] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 05:14:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:13:42 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005701c46aed$194d8280$ede797ac@mikedell866> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1599 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote: > <<> In a message dated 7/13/2004 9:49:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > lance@s... writes: > > How do all of you think this will affect the amusement > > industry? > > > i think its going to hurt Intamin more than anything else. 2 highly > publicized accidents of their rides on one year?>> >although it seems that the parks weren't taking my side either as they would continue to buy their rides, though I can't explain why. Like Knott's / Cedar Fair blamed the Perilous Plunge death on Intamin's faulty engineering, but then they still went out and bought and built Xcelerator and TTD, and I cant remember if Wicked Twister was already built before that happened. Either way, Wicked Twister had to have structural modifications, Xcelerator had to have structural modifications, Intamin lap bars have had to have modifications, and most other Intamin launched coasters have had major problems (S:TE, Volcano). > Mike > IOASpiderman@a... Did/does Cedar Fair have a contractual obligation with Intamin AG do purchase a certain number of rides / coasters? I think I remember reading that somewhere. Hence, Steel Venom, Wicked Twister, MF, TTD, Xcel, etc. All in a row, with no other builders. I think TTD was the last in the contract, and if it's true, probably the last Intamin ride Cedar Fair will be buying for a while. If Cedar got a "discount" Intamin might have been financially pressed to reduce the costs associated with building those rides: Development, structure, components. Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Thu Jul 15 22:15:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60904 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 05:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 05:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 05:15:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 05:15:23 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:15:22 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003f01c46af1$d73bce60$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 316 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.91 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > > I hate to sound completely hypocritical here .. but who else could > > Cedar Fair have turned to to build Dragster?? B&M wouldn't touch it > > S&S... and they didn't even give them a courtesy call. See my previous post. :) Chris B From lance@screamscape.com Fri Jul 16 03:05:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95762 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6DDhdSg051997 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 22146 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 13:43:39 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 13:43:39 -0000 Message-ID: <028b01c468df$6b73bf80$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: "Roller Coaster Talk" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:43:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance Here's the breaking news of the day... Dragster is closed indefinitely after four riders were injured. You can read the report I just posted to www.Screamscape.com It's just not a good year for Intamin is it? From munkye1972@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 03:36:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43108 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 10:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 10:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 10:36:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.124] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 10:34:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:34:23 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <028b01c468df$6b73bf80$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 434 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.78 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > Here's the breaking news of the day... Dragster is closed indefinitely > after four riders were injured. You can read the report I just posted > to www.Screamscape.com > > It's just not a good year for Intamin is it? Lance you may spend too much time busy with your site, I think we've broken 30 or more messages on this topic already... ;) Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 04:26:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12815 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 11:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 11:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 11:26:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.186] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 11:25:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:25:11 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 462 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: MISC: Carnie Porn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sandy" wrote: > For those of you who didn't believe me when I said this ride traveled (and I > know there was one or two), here are pictures of the Imperator, which used > to be at Prater, being assembled at one of its first spots this year: Adam, what is this? I check your flatrides page, but it's not under Xcalibur or Imperator. It does look big, how many trailer loads is it? Chris B From afrsandy@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 04:56:16 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47375 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 11:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 11:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.226) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 11:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 11:56:15 -0000 To: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:56:11 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.226 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Re: MISC: Carnie Porn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy "Adam, what is this? I check your flatrides page, but it's not under Xcalibur or Imperator. It does look big, how many trailer loads is it? " http://www.flatrides.com/Ride%20Index%20Pages/busevolution.html It is a Bussink Evolution. I estimated it at around 14 trailers in the US, but I don't even know if they could break it down enough to get the trailers under DOT limits. The one at SFStL used to be trailer-mounted also, but when it went to Mirabilandia or to SFGAdv it was converted and concrete footers were added. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From dougjnelson@comcast.net Fri Jul 16 06:22:23 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76092 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 13:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 13:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 13:22:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.187] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 13:21:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:21:51 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1125 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "munkye1972" wrote: > Did/does Cedar Fair have a contractual obligation with Intamin AG do > purchase a certain number of rides / coasters? I think I remember > reading that somewhere. Hence, Steel Venom, Wicked Twister, MF, TTD, > Xcel, etc. All in a row, with no other builders. > I think TTD was the last in the contract, and if it's true, probably > the last Intamin ride Cedar Fair will be buying for a while. > If Cedar got a "discount" Intamin might have been financially pressed > to reduce the costs associated with building those rides: > Development, structure, components. > but if this is the case, and youve had problems with their rides in the past, would you push them build something even more intense and difficult to maintain? why not just build something that has been proven and already exists, like a variation on SROS for example, instead of making them build something theyve never done before(at least on the scale of TTD)? once again, seems the fault might lie with CF and a lack to see the forest through the trees. From dougjnelson@comcast.net Fri Jul 16 06:27:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38331 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 13:27:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 13:27:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 13:27:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 13:25:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:25:38 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 726 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.92 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "munkye1972" wrote: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" > wrote: > > > I hate to sound completely hypocritical here .. but who else could > > > Cedar Fair have turned to to build Dragster?? B&M wouldn't touch > it > > > > S&S... and they didn't even give them a courtesy call. > > See my previous post. but CF does have an S&S tower, right? so they must have some kind of working relationship with them. i keep wondering who pushed more for TTD-was it the park saying "we need something even more extreme! Intamin, get cracking!" or was it Intamin going "this is our best ride ever! we guarantee huge sale increases!"? From lance@screamscape.com Fri Jul 16 06:34:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8595 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 13:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 13:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 13:34:38 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6GDYW67088106 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 95120 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 13:34:32 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 13:34:32 -0000 Message-ID: <01e801c46b39$a8b245e0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:34:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance ----- Original Message ----- From: "munkye1972" To: Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 6:34 AM Subject: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" > wrote: > > Here's the breaking news of the day... Dragster is closed > indefinitely > > after four riders were injured. You can read the report I just > posted > > to www.Screamscape.com > > > > It's just not a good year for Intamin is it? > > Lance you may spend too much time busy with your site, I think we've > broken 30 or more messages on this topic already... That was strange... I wrote that message before anyone else has posted the subject on the morning I posted it to Screamscape (7/13) only to have it just go to the list this morning. That's damn weird... From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 16 06:52:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69886 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 13:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 13:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.226) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 13:52:20 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BlT5A-0007Qm-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:49:00 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <01e801c46b39$a8b245e0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:48:58 -0700 In-Reply-To: <01e801c46b39$a8b245e0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.226 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:34:45 -0400, Lance Hart wrote: >> >> Lance you may spend too much time busy with your site, I think we've >> broken 30 or more messages on this topic already... > > > That was strange... I wrote that message before anyone else has posted > the subject on the morning I posted it to Screamscape (7/13) only to > have it just go to the list this morning. That's damn weird... Yahoo will do that sometimes, where a message or two seems to get lost in transit. You might have noticed the occaisional time where I've double, or even triple, posted. That's because I've had a post not show up, and I'll try to resend it, only to have both end up on the list a few hours later. Ahh, the joys of email sometimes. :) keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 16 06:57:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82598 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 13:57:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 13:57:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.226) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 13:57:25 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BlTDH-0000vb-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:57:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:57:21 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <20040716044131.29737.qmail@buzzneon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040716044131.29737.qmail@buzzneon.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.226 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:41:31 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > Of course, the real answer to the "who else could Cedar Fair have turned > to" question is: They shouldn't have attempted Dragster in the first > place. The fault lies 100% with Cedar Fair, not Intamin .. sorry, I > know comments like that are grounds for banishment from the coaster > community! Right here I think you hit on the absolute crux of the matter, and not just with Intamin, but also with Arrow and other companies to. The builders build what the parks tell them to. If there's major problems with that because the builder went beyond what was reasonable, it's because they were building to the parks' demands in an effort to keep money flowing in. If the parks didn't demand such extremes- especially in such dramatic steps and without the time to thoroughly test them- then you wouldn't see the builders taking such risky or untested steps. > >> I'm sure the general public loves the rides, but I think at some point >> you have to take quality over the bottom line. > > Right .. Cedar Fair could have built anything and the public would > love it. I'd bet that they could punch each guest in the gut as they > enter the park, and the public would still rave "CEDAR FAIR IS THE > ONLY CHAIN WHO HAS THE BALLS TO GO TO THE XTREME!!!!" ;-) Don't know about the public at large, but it does seem like a good portion of the coaster community. but I won't point any fingers at any Buzz-ards. :P >> I think that any park that buys an Intamin deserves every problem >> those awfully engineered peices of crap can throw at them. > > Actually .. my honest opinion (and I have nothing to back it up, other > than a 'feeling') is that Intamin do know very well how to engineer > quality rides - but just cut costs in order to compete with B&M, > only they go too far. I would agree here. It seems that the problems come up when they've stepped out to an "extreme", and if it's technology that has already been reasonably developed, they don't seem to have the problems. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From gburnash@earthlink.net Fri Jul 16 07:00:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19879 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 14:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 14:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 14:00:54 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BlTGI-0002iK-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:00:31 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:00:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.84 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:01:01 -0000, munkye1972 wrote: > > As I understand it ToT's different than Supe. Also I didn't say I > didn't like any of them. I like them all. However, seven seconds is a > long time to take high G's, especially if you like to breathe! As I recall, the only difference between the two is that S:TE has two tracks instead of one, ToT has a drop ride on their tower, and S:TE's track/ tower is elevated because of the hill it's built on. Otherwise the actual rides and mechanics are, to my recollection, pretty much identical. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 16 07:07:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44304 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 14:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 14:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 14:07:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 2041 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jul 2004 14:06:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20040716140601.2040.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:06:01 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "munkye1972" at Jul 16, 2004 05:15:22 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > > I hate to sound completely hypocritical here .. but who else could > > > Cedar Fair have turned to to build Dragster?? B&M wouldn't touch > > > it > > > > S&S... and they didn't even give them a courtesy call. > > See my previous post. > > :) I know, I know .. I'm a complete idiot! It was late .. and I was exhausted after spending the day at Indiana Beach (which rocked, by the way). Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Avalanches above, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** business continues below. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From gregleg@gregleg.com Fri Jul 16 07:17:33 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gregleg@gregleg.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93974 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 14:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 14:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO atlas.jtan.com) (207.106.84.159) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 14:17:16 -0000 X-JTAN-Envelope-From: gregleg@gregleg.com X-JTAN-Envelope-To: Received: from raven (thebe.jtan.com [207.106.84.138]) by atlas.jtan.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6GEGVtL023986 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:16:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200407161416.i6GEGVtL023986@atlas.jtan.com> To: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:16:35 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcRrOKaP5o+5anuiR3yqR0hcO/XeSwABr/WQ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.106.84.159 From: "Greg Legowski" Subject: RE: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=102344349 X-Yahoo-Profile: GregLeg1 > but CF does have an S&S tower, right? so they must have some kind of > working relationship with them. Yes, they have Power Tower. They also had VertiGone, but that kinda fell over, souring that relationship... --Greg "Some people will go to any lengths to get a ring; others, having had one for a while, will go to any lengths to chuck it into a volcano." -- Liz Langley From lance@screamscape.com Fri Jul 16 08:02:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82834 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 15:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 15:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 15:02:35 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6GF2ZUm011409 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:02:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 57674 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 15:02:35 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 15:02:35 -0000 Message-ID: <006001c46b45$ec76ca60$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <20040716044131.29737.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:02:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > Right here I think you hit on the absolute crux of the matter, and not > just with Intamin, but also with Arrow and other companies to. The > builders build what the parks tell them to. If there's major problems > with that because the builder went beyond what was reasonable, it's > because they were building to the parks' demands in an effort to keep > money flowing in. If the parks didn't demand such extremes- especially in > such dramatic steps and without the time to thoroughly test them- then you > wouldn't see the builders taking such risky or untested steps. > I would agree here. It seems that the problems come up when they've > stepped out to an "extreme", and if it's technology that has already been > reasonably developed, they don't seem to have the problems. In a mannor of speaking however... if you really think of it, was Top Thrill Dragster really such of an extreme push for Intamin? Thinking about it... I think Cedar Fair did just about whatever they could to ensure a quality product from Intamin. What is easily apparent is that tghe GOAL was to build a bigger, better full-circuit coaster version of Superman: The Escape... a previous Intamin creation... twice over. While Superman: The Escape did have technical problems that delayed it's opening by just under a year, it DID open and for all intents and purposes, it did run well for the first few years. On a reinforcing note that seems to possibly place the problems of Superman:TE on SFMM and not Intamin is the fact that the Tower of Terror in Australia opened a few weeks later and is still running without problems (that we know of). That said... from a park's point of view... who better to build a bigger better version of S:TE than the company who built it in the first place. So while S:TE is 415 feet tall, CP wanted a 420 foot version, so the speed needed to be raised to 120mph to get over the top. Not having good luck with the LSM launch on S:TE Intamin apparently came up with all new technology they wanted to use on this new line of coasters. Skeptical of any new launch technology, as Cedar Fair did the right thing by building a half-sized version (Xcelerator) at Knott's who needed a new coaster to replace Windjammer at the time. Knott's was also a good location to test out the new system, because it's in the same market as S:TE and if the public reaction to Xcelerator was still "over the top" in comarison to S:TE, despite it being smaller and slower, then the full sized version at Cedar Point the next year would be a sure winner. As we know, Xcelerator opened... only a few weeks late of course, but was immedately a big hit. There were technical problems with the launch system, which was expected from the start. But by the end of the year, the bugs were mostly worked out and the ride became, for all intents, stable. Meanwhile, construction was in full swing on Top Thrill Dragster. Again, Cedar Fair knew that Dragster was bound to have technical problems due to the extra launch power they needed, but at this point Dragster started to have more than it's share of odd problems. In addition to the launch problems they were expecting, we have the issue of the ride throwing it's themed tires. The launch problems also seemed to be far more serious on Dragster than with Xcelerator, which esclated to the point that they considered shutting it down for the rest of the season to get it right. One year later, they hoped to have all the bugs worked out as they did with Xcelerator, but yet are still having problems... meanwhile Intamin built a 3rd rocket coaster (Storm Runner) which seems to have having it's share of start-up blues. At this point I would have expected that the 3rd generation ride which only has the launch requirements of the 1st gen wouldn't be having these problems, which seems to indicate that it was perhaps the Knott's technical experts that solved the problems with Xcelerator and not Intamin, because so far all three of these rides have had problems right out of the box. (In an unrelated story I've heard more than once than once that the Knott's ride maintenance crew are one of the best teams out there today) So all said and done, given the GOAL Cedar Point wanted for Dragster, I think they actually went through nearly all the possible steps they could to attempt to ensure that Dragster would open as smooth as possible. By comparison, take a look at how Six Flags went about ordering the first Arrow 4th Dimension coaster (X) at Magic Mountain. They didn't build a half sized prototype or even one of the proposed layouts Arrow was pitching. Instead they asked for a 200 foot version with a vertical drop right off the bat on a new and yet unproven ride system. Most people wouldn't toss their kid into a brand new Corvette they've never driven before to go to the DMV to take their Driver's License test, but in many ways this is what Six Flags did with X... just as they did the same thing years ago with Superman: The Escape. Cedar Fair on the other hand took the proper "baby steps" in the development of Dragster. From aelk2004@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 08:57:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87061 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 15:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 15:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.104) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 15:56:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.139] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 15:56:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:56:19 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 881 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.104 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: NEWS: Sam McKim, dead at the age of 79. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 This is a repost for Disneyphiles. -Alan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sam McKim, an artist who drew the first souvenir maps of Disneyland in 1954 and preliminary sketches for many Disney theme-park rides, has died at age 79. McKim was one of the first park designers who later became known as "Imagineers." McKim joined Disney in 1954 and his sketches inspired the designers of attractions, shops and restaurants for the original Disneyland in California. He created souvenir maps for Disneyland, the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, and Disneyland Paris. He also produced sketches of all four attractions Disney built for the 1964-65 New York World's Fair. McKim's artwork contributed to the story development of several pavilions in Epcot. McKim, who was born in Canada, started out as a child actor and auditioned for the voice of Pinocchio in the 1930s Disney film. From aelk2004@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 08:59:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80420 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 15:59:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 15:59:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 15:59:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.254] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 15:58:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:58:35 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 196 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.67 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: NEWS: Halloween Horror Nights X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 Universal Orlando is expanding its popular Halloween Horror Nights to include both Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure. This year's twin version will run for 18 nights in October. -Alan From cameron@buzzneon.com Fri Jul 16 09:33:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21482 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 16:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 16:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 16:33:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 3275 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jul 2004 16:33:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20040716163319.3274.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com (Talk Coaster) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:33:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: TR: Indiana Beach (July 15th 2004) - not too long X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon Date: July 15th, 2004 Weather: Spectacular (Sunny, low 80s). Crowds: Relatively light People: Parker, Matt, Caleb and myself. At 9pm on Wednesday night, Parker called me to see if we could go to Indiana Beach soon. He won't be able to attend Lost Coaster weekend, which he was very sad about. I called up the other two kids, and it tuned out the only day they were all free was the very next day! (I can't believe how busy these kids are .. it's nuts! What ever happened to spending the summer lounging around the neighborhood?!). So the next morning I picked them all up, and we did the two hour drive down to the Beach. We've been going pretty much every year for the last 4 or 5 years, and it's always been a highlight for me. Being a Thursday in mid-July, I expected heavy crowds .. but it was pretty great. We were all very tired, but did get that needed boost of excitement as we trooped across the suspension bridge .. which is probably the best way to enter any park anywhere. The whole board-walk is on spectacular display .. with coasters, rides, the chair-lift, water slides, and boats on the water. Freaking awesome. We hit Lost Coaster first, which seemed to be even better than last year .. with more theming in place. I have to admit that I wasn't sure about this when I first rode it in 2002, but I really like it now. We of course hit Cornball and Hurricane .. with the latter providing surprisingly terrific rides. Cornball, unfortunately, seemed a little sluggish .. it was still a great ride, but didn't live up to the rides it was giving during Lost Coaster weekend last year. We did all five coasters several times throughout the day. The highlight of the day was Parker finally getting up the nerves to hit the Sky Coaster. He's been wanting to try one for years, but decided that his first would be at Indy Beach (since it's right over the water). I bought him a ticket, and video so he'd have proof .. and the ops started to strap him in. He looked so tiny, dangling from those cables as the elevated platform dropped away and motor began winching him up to the top (he's only 12, and a small 12 too). I was nervous for him, as he reached the top and the op announced the famous "3, 2, 1 - fly!". He pulled the cord and came soaring back down to the ground .. Yelling happily the whole way down. Many people on the board-walk were eyeing him (including a group of teenage girls in the Lost Coaster line - which he was impressed with when I told him after the ride!), amazed at how brave he was riding this thing himself. Parker swung for a few minutes before the ops held out the handle, and they began to raise the platform back to let him down. But wait .. what's this? Just as they unhooked him, they started to put him back up! Remember at Six Flags Great America when he sweet talked his way into a re-ride on the Rapids .. well I assumed he'd done the same thing here. After-all, no-one can say no to that boy! Up he went, for a second ride .. and again he whooped with delight after pulling the cord. He looked so happy! When they finally got him down and he exited the ride, he was positively beaming .. when we sat down to wait for Matt and Caleb (who'd gone off to ride Den Of Lost Thieves), Parker was jumping out of his skin .. he couldn't sit still, so we walked down to meet the others. The reason for the double ride was actually because the op had forgotten to start the video recorder to film his flight. Parker loved this so much that I got him another ride before we left. We did all the Indy Beach standards .. including several hours in the water park. I am really glad that to have such a fantastic little spot so close to Chicago. Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Avalanches above, * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** business continues below. * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From jzucker@alpha-sys.com Fri Jul 16 09:45:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: JZucker@alpha-sys.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1845 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 16:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 16:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO is?server.ALPHA?IS) (12.41.14.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 16:45:27 -0000 Received: by mail.alpha-sys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:46:40 -0400 Message-ID: <7E69B3E42D005149A8989DA9F57DE33FC10D44@mail.alpha-sys.com> To: "'RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com'" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:46:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 12.41.14.41 From: Jon Zucker Subject: RE: RCT3 website X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192106588 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 > ...i only hope my computer can > handle the graphics. Alas, mine can't. Check this link for a list of system requirements: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=70baf0d3c5ebb7c69a3b44 7fee7b03b0&threadid=374031 _________ This transmittal from Alpha Systems is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review or use, including disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the transmittal. From jzucker@alpha-sys.com Fri Jul 16 09:54:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: JZucker@alpha-sys.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84865 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 16:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 16:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO is?server.ALPHA?IS) (209.101.63.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 16:54:43 -0000 Received: by mail.alpha-sys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:55:16 -0400 Message-ID: <7E69B3E42D005149A8989DA9F57DE33FC10D45@mail.alpha-sys.com> To: "'RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com'" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:55:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.101.63.9 From: Jon Zucker Subject: RE: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192106588 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 > I'm sure the > general public loves the rides, but I think at some point you > have to take quality over the bottom line. I won't comment on the rest of what you said, but this statement is where your logic breaks down. Always, please, remember that amusement parks are businesses. And in the case of publicly owned companies (such as Cedar Fair and Six Flags), there is nothing *but* the bottom line. The people who make decisions about what to do in their parks are not just being smart by paying attention to the bottom line, in fact they are required by law to do so. If the general public loves a ride, then that'll help the bottom line and therefore it's the right ride to have. It doesn't matter if it's a "quality" ride or how much us coaster geeks appreciate it. (It's possible to argue that "quality" is the way to go for the long-term financial health of a park, but that's difficult to prove -- assuming that it is even true.). Jon Z The First (who doesn't know how to prevent his new employer from adding the following disclaimer) ______________________________ This transmittal from Alpha Systems is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review or use, including disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the transmittal. From bethtoons@gmail.com Fri Jul 16 10:24:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41602 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 17:24:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 17:24:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.242) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 17:24:38 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so31401cwc for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.43 with SMTP id u43mr93909cwc; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071610246486167f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:24:31 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.242 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: TR: 07/04/2004 Holiday World & 07/05/2004 SFKK X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons I can finally leave for my next trip since I am now done with TRs from the last one. :) Holiday World 07/04/2004 Leaving St. Louis in the morning, I had a permagrin on my face for most of the drive. Very few parks have this effect on me, but I was going to Holiday World. Holiday World is one of the few parks I've visited where I've basically sworn to myself that I will go out of my way to visit at least once a year. It's a long drive from home, but it's not so far out of the way that I can't execute a visit in a well-planned weekend and it fit perfectly as an on-the-way-home stop at the end of this particular road trip. The day didn't disappoint. I got to Santa Claus around 2 pm, got a room at Santa's Lodge lined up, and headed to the pakr. Once in the park I headed straight for the Raven. I really didn't ride much that was new to me this time and spent the majority of the afternoon going back and forth between Raven and Legend. Both coasters were running well, and quickly reinforced their places among my favorites. After my initial rides, I wandered a bit, took some pics, bought some souvenirs (something I'd not had the chance to do last year), took a ride on the Mother Goose train, the log flume, the flyers and back to the coasters. Right around the time that I was contemplating the rapids ride because the heat and humidity were getting to me, it started getting cooler outside. I made my way back towards the coasters, and noticed a large dark cloud drifting in the distance. I queued up for Raven just as the skies were opening up and the park made the announcement that the rides would be closing temporarily due to the weather. I was under a roof at Raven, so I stayed put. Most of the people left and there were about 10 of us with the ride ops who spent the next hour and a half weathering the storm in the station. This was actually quite fun, the ops were personable and friendly, as were the others in the station, and it was cool to watch the lightning streak through the sky over Legend as the storm blew through. It also gave a neat perspective for watching the park come back up after the storm. The smaller rides came up first. Maintenance made their rounds, came and walked the track, sent an empty train and we were finally able to ride. Raven is great dry, Raven flies right after a good rainstorm. Legend flew after the rain as well, but I wasn't getting the knee-trembling rides on it like I experienced last year. I kept a leisurely pace for the rest of the afternoon, getting in a few rides here and there when I felt like it. As the day was winding down, I queued for my last ride of the night at Raven again. For a park that has a 4th of July themed area, they don't have a park-sponsored fireworks display on the 4th. However, ALL of the area campgrounds have displays, so the area wasn't lacking for fireworks even without any inside the park. As the end of the night drew closer and the park got as dark as it was going to get, I got in my last ride. I couldn't have asked for a better ending to the trip or to the day, as I ended with a night ride on Raven after a rainstorm with fireworks over Lake Rudolph from the campground. Leaving the park, there were literally fireworks going off in every direction from the campgrounds and locals, it wasn't the biggest most coordinated and spectacular display, but it was more than I expected from as tiny a town as Santa Claus. I am still enamored with this park. I had a great afternoon in Santa Claus, and I'll be back again next year. SFKK 07/05/2004 I had contemplated a second day in the park, and decided against it, as I really just wanted to get home, so on the 5th, I set out. As I was driving, I realized that my directions were going to put me in Louisville before I veered north and I debated a quick stop at SFKK. I called George to talk me out of it when I couldn't get a hold of Brian and instead of talking me out of it he talked me into it. So, I went 20-minutes out of my way for 2 more coaster credits and the only good that came of it is that I can now say definitively that I have no good reasons to set foot in that park again. I was literally only there long enough to ride the two coasters I'd not ridden last year, get a couple postcards and leave. It initially wasn't so horrible. I got into the park, got to Greased Lightning and the line wasn't bad. A few trains later I was able to ride it and it was fun, I can't say much that's bad about a shuttle loop. Unfortunately, my other "needed" credit was T2. It was another really hot and humid day; there was a fairly long line and only one train running. So, I waited forever. Once in the station, there were a ton of people crowded in and plenty of stale, humid, unmoving air. Think of a mosh pit in a sauna and you get the general idea of how the station felt. There were at least two delays because people passed out in the line and had to be pulled from the crowd. Once I was finally in the train, someone pointed out the empty seat next to me to the guy in front of him in line (I assume so he didn't have to listen to him complain anymore) and he spent the entire time before dispatch cussing out the operators because of the wait and didn't stop complaining until we hit the top of the lift. I tried my best to ignore him, suffered through the most painful and worst SLC ride I've ever had anywhere and made my way back out as quickly as I could. I had hoped to try to make up for that by riding either Thunder Run or Chang, but both had long lines that looked to be as well circulated as the T2 station was and there was another Thunderstorm looming in the distance, so I passed. I stopped in the gift shop, called George again and had Dave give him a good wallop upside the back of the head for talking me into going, and left. I don't know what it is about this park that brings out the worst in people and I have no intention of going back to do any sort of extensive study. I probably should have just left good enough alone and ended my trip as planned with Holiday World. Beth From bethtoons@gmail.com Fri Jul 16 10:32:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32867 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 17:32:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 17:32:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.250) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 17:32:35 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so433672cwb for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.5 with SMTP id u5mr123779cwc; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304071610321f88963b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:32:34 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.250 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: News: Speaking of the bottom line... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons Quoted from the second article linked below... "The New York-based company said cool weather in the Northeast and a sharp attendance drop in the second half of June punished first-half numbers. " Apparently they reported a 4% attendance drop. http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2004/mft04071601.htm http://www.thestreet.com/markets/marketfeatures/10171558.html Beth From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 12:43:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51995 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 19:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 19:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 19:43:26 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1e9.25344cb6 (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e9.25344cb6.2e2989d9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:43:21 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.5 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it a good year for Intamin and the parks with their rides? nope.... can't say it has been, but hey, incidents and accidents do happen has after all the rides are mechanical, and mechanical things do break down and have problems, but I hope B&M comes out with their version as I am positive they will get the rocket coaster concept and technology right. They will not rish their reputation just for a park that wants to build the biggest, tallest, and fastest ride in the world. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if S&S and B&M become the builder of choice with all the problems that have happened this year. Joe THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 12:53:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93164 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 19:53:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 19:53:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 19:53:34 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.c8.49f81b2d (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:53:17 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.37 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: Rides that have had or still have problems by manufacturer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With the problems that have surfaced with rides this year, I thought it would be interesting to list rides by manufacturer and park that have had or still have problems - yes, any problems, so, here goes: INTAMIN Top Thrill Dragster, CP Xcelerator, KBF Superman, TE, SFMM Superman, TR, SFNE Perilus Plunge, KBF Flashback, SFMM Millenium Force, CP ARROW/S&S X, SFMM Drachen Fire, BGW Thrill Shot, SFMM (?) B&M none that I can think of. VEKOMA DejaVu, SFMM, SFOG, SFAm THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 13:04:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56188 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 20:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 20:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 20:04:22 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1cc.25ed4e57 (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1cc.25ed4e57.2e298e78@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:03:04 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.206 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: Rides that have had or still have problems by ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 3:57:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, thunder7nyfl@aol.com writes: With the problems that have surfaced with rides this year, I thought it would be interesting to list rides by manufacturer and park that have had or still have problems - yes, any problems, so, here goes: INTAMIN Top Thrill Dragster, CP Xcelerator, KBF Superman, TE, SFMM Superman, ROS, SFNE (corrected name) Perilus Plunge, KBF Flashback, SFMM Millenium Force, CP ARROW/S&S X, SFMM Drachen Fire, BGW Thrill Shot, SFMM (?) B&M none that I can think of. VEKOMA DejaVu, SFMM, SFOG, SFAm THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 13:05:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75936 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 20:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 20:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 20:05:50 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1c0.1bb7ce35 (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1c0.1bb7ce35.2e298efb@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:05:15 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.6 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: TOT and STE's Stats X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 10:11:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, gburnash@earthlink.net writes: As I recall, the only difference between the two is that S:TE has two tracks instead of one, ToT has a drop ride on their tower, and S:TE's track/ tower is elevated because of the hill it's built on. Otherwise the actual rides and mechanics are, to my recollection, pretty much identical. TOWER OF TERROR Statistics Length (feet):1235' Height (feet):377' 4" Drop (feet):328' 1" Inversions:0 Speed (mph):100 Duration (m:ss):0:28 Angle Of Descent (degrees):90 G-Force (g):4.5 Acceleration:0 - 100 mph in 7 seconds Vehicles Arrangement:1 car. Riders are arranged 4 across in 4 rows for a total of 16 riders. Notes:The front row only sits 3 riders so it is really 15 riders per car. Other Information Features:6.5 seconds of weightlessness. SUPERMAN THE ESCAPE Park:Six Flags Magic Mountain Type:Steel - Sit Down Status:Operated from 3/15/1997 to 2004 SBNO from 2004 to ? Make / Model:Intamin AG / Reverse Freefall Coaster Method of Propulsion:LSM Launch Track Categories:LSM, Shuttle, Twin Cost:$20,000,000 Capacity (riders per hour):1050 Statistics Track:LeftRight Length (feet):1235' Height (feet):415' Drop (feet):328' 1" Inversions:0 Speed (mph):100 Duration (m:ss):0:28 Angle Of Descent (degrees):90 G-Force (g):4.5 Acceleration:0 - 100 mph in 7 seconds Vehicles Arrangement:2 trains. Notes:Single 15-passenger train per track. Riders sit three across in the front row and four across in the remaining rows. Equipped with four huge wheels; the front pair are two feet in diameter, and the rear are a full thirty inches across. Other Information Features:6.5 seconds of weightlessness. History:Superman The Escape was originally intended to open in 1996. Due to problems, it was never open to the public until the 1997 season. There was a preview for season pass holders in the fall of 1996. Ride concept by Jim Blackie. It doesn't seem Superman The Escape has operated at all during 2004 and the reason for the SBNO status. Has anyone ridden it this year? The recent request from the state asking the ride be shutdown until the restraints are modified is not the reason the Superman was initially closed. The request from the state came about in June and the Superman hasn't operated for much longer, perhaps not at all in 2004. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 13:34:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26904 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 20:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 20:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 20:34:40 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.88.f3169f6 (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88.f3169f6.2e299379@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:24:25 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.2 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 12:42:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, cameron@buzzneon.com writes: Of course, the real answer to the "who else could Cedar Fair have turned to" question is: They shouldn't have attempted Dragster in the first place. The fault lies 100% with Cedar Fair, not Intamin .. sorry, I know comments like that are grounds for banishment from the coaster community! I need to go on record that when sixflagsnews.com was around I would get into major heated discussions about TTD, CP, and CF as a whole. I will go on record saying that CP is a great park (eventhough I've never been, from what I have heard they know their stuff), but they got hooked in trying to prove STE was not a coaster and wanted to show up SFMM. I will go on record also as saying from day #1 that this coaster would cause injuries and problems, not only for CF and CP, but the public. I hate to say I told you so, but I will absolutely say it now. Bigger, Taller, Fastest is NOT the best nor something to rave about. Also, Intamin was out to justify and redeem themselves from the problems STE had, and now look at them. Every year, it seems something with an Intamin goes wrong. Just my two cents. Joe THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 13:44:03 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33136 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 20:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 20:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 20:44:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.186] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 20:43:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:43:52 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1c0.1bb7ce35.2e298efb@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 419 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, thunder7nyfl@a... wrote: > Make / Model:Intamin AG / Reverse Freefall Coaster This reminds me of something I'd been meaning to ask... why isn't Freefall at SFMM considered a roller coaster? It travels with wheels on a track from gravity. The broader question: what's the accepted definition of a roller coaster? With some rides, it's obvious; with others, less so. Adam From jzucker@alpha-sys.com Fri Jul 16 13:53:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jzucker@alpha-sys.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60169 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 20:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 20:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 20:53:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.178] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 20:53:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:53:11 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 875 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "zucker0615" X-Originating-IP: 209.101.63.5 Subject: Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192106588 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 > This reminds me of something I'd been meaning to ask... why isn't > Freefall at SFMM considered a roller coaster? It travels with wheels > on a track from gravity. The broader question: what's the accepted > definition of a roller coaster? With some rides, it's obvious; with > others, less so. Can: open. Worms: everywhere! This is a discussion we've had many times on this list. In the end, it always comes down to a personal choice. There's no absolute rule about what rides are or are not "roller coasters." I'd guess that about half the people on this list consider S:TE a roller coaster. Maybe that would be an interesting poll question. IMHO, I think it is. But actually, I don't have to be definitive about it: I didn't get a chance to ride it, so I don't have to decide whether or not to include it in my count. Jon Z The Rideless in '04 From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 13:56:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70533 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 20:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 20:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 20:56:37 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.142.2e62a2a9 (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <142.2e62a2a9.2e299af2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:56:18 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.208 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 4:46:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, adamnvillani@yahoo.com writes: This reminds me of something I'd been meaning to ask... why isn't Freefall at SFMM considered a roller coaster? It travels with wheels on a track from gravity. The broader question: what's the accepted definition of a roller coaster? With some rides, it's obvious; with others, less so. Very good as I've been saying all along that S:TE was nothing more than a glorified version of Freefall, but while S:TE is listed as a reverse freefall coaster, and Freefall is not, it is because Freefall does not start out on a coaster track. It goes up a tower, than drops on a track. A coaster in my definition must start and finish on a track. Joe THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 14:04:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80051 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 21:04:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 21:04:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 21:04:11 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.199.2bff3265 (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199.2bff3265.2e299ca2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:03:30 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.6 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 5:01:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, thunder7nyfl@aol.com writes: A coaster in my definition must start and finish on a track. Some take this definition a step further to say that a coaster must start/finish on a continuous circuited track. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 14:37:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19021 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 21:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 21:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 21:37:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 21:36:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:36:00 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <142.2e62a2a9.2e299af2@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 366 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, thunder7nyfl@a... wrote: > It goes up a tower, than drops on a track. A coaster in my > definition must start and finish on a track. What would you think of the Spellbreaker at Legoland, which had an elevator lift? The RCDB counts spellbreaker but doesn't count Freefall. (Sorry about opening the can of worms!) Adam From Cyclonic07@aol.com Fri Jul 16 14:37:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35010 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 21:37:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 21:37:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 21:37:49 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.2b.5c3ff9ed (4254) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b.5c3ff9ed.2e29a48b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:37:15 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.207 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: A Lawsuit Waiting to Happen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2004 11:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, afrsandy@yahoo.com writes: http://www.bouncersslidesandmore.com/waterslide.htm You too can feel the sting of a massive lawsuit when you put this in your backyard at your kid's party! Adam *************************************************** Especially if you are the moron that puts it on a concrete driveway. Ouch. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Cyclonic07@aol.com Fri Jul 16 14:40:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31048 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 21:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 21:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 21:40:38 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.fb.5be3efea (4254) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:39:52 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.4 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 6:08:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, lance@screamscape.com writes: Here's the breaking news of the day... Dragster is closed indefinitely after four riders were injured. You can read the report I just posted to www.Screamscape.com It's just not a good year for Intamin is it? *************************************************** Running about a week behind there Lance. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Cyclonic07@aol.com Fri Jul 16 14:43:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47864 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 21:43:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 21:43:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 21:43:12 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.d8.f6329f6 (4254) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:42:46 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.7 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 9:40:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, lance@screamscape.com writes: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" > wrote: > > Here's the breaking news of the day... Dragster is closed > indefinitely > > after four riders were injured. You can read the report I just > posted > > to www.Screamscape.com > > > > It's just not a good year for Intamin is it? > > Lance you may spend too much time busy with your site, I think we've > broken 30 or more messages on this topic already... That was strange... I wrote that message before anyone else has posted the subject on the morning I posted it to Screamscape (7/13) only to have it just go to the list this morning. That's damn weird... *************************************************** That would explain it. Yahoo sucks sometimes. I take back my sarchasam. Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jay@karenandjay.com Fri Jul 16 14:53:48 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47269 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 21:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 21:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 21:53:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:51:22 -0700 Message-Id: <200407161451.AA17432632@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme >Did/does Cedar Fair have a contractual obligation with Intamin AG do >purchase a certain number of rides / coasters? I think I remember >reading that somewhere. Hence, Steel Venom, Wicked Twister, MF, TTD, >Xcel, etc. All in a row, with no other builders. < It reminds me of the 1980s, when Arrow was about the only company contracted to build bigger and bigger steel coasters. They were willing to take those projects, and they went from being king of the midway to being bankrupt. I hope Intamin doesn't end up in the same boat. It's not a big deal when a prototype ride doesn't work as expected. I agree that Cedar Fair is mostly to blame here. But when the ride begins injuring guests, well that's something that hopefully Cedar Fair certainly never planned for. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Fri Jul 16 15:12:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45827 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 22:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 22:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 22:12:46 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.a1.4a71b19d (4206) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:12:08 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.5 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 5:39:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, adamnvillani@yahoo.com writes: What would you think of the Spellbreaker at Legoland, which had an elevator lift? The RCDB counts spellbreaker but doesn't count Freefall. Umm, No.... different classification - the BATFLYER is considered a coaster by RCT and www.rcdb.com because if it's track. Demographics Park:Legoland California Type:Steel - Suspended Status:Operated from 10/13/2000 to 2003 SBNO from 2003 to 2004 Make / Model:Caripro / Batflyer Method of Propulsion:Elevator Lift Categories:Family, Twin Capacity (riders per hour):400 Statistics Height (feet):42' Inversions:0 Speed (mph):24 Vehicles Arrangement:10 cars. Riders are arranged inline in 2 rows for a total of 2 riders per car. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From munkye1972@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 16:11:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34927 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 23:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 23:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 23:11:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.185] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 23:11:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:11:19 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1882 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Nelson" wrote: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "munkye1972" > wrote: > > Did/does Cedar Fair have a contractual obligation with Intamin AG > do > > purchase a certain number of rides / coasters? I think I remember > > reading that somewhere. Hence, Steel Venom, Wicked Twister, MF, > TTD, > > Xcel, etc. All in a row, with no other builders. > > I think TTD was the last in the contract, and if it's true, > probably > > the last Intamin ride Cedar Fair will be buying for a while. > > If Cedar got a "discount" Intamin might have been financially > pressed > > to reduce the costs associated with building those rides: > > Development, structure, components. > > > > > but if this is the case, and youve had problems with their rides in > the past, would you push them build something even more intense and > difficult to maintain? why not just build something that has been > proven and already exists, like a variation on SROS for example, > instead of making them build something theyve never done before(at > least on the scale of TTD)? once again, seems the fault might lie > with CF and a lack to see the forest through the trees. The contract (as I remember) was right about the time MF was finished and Steel Dragon 2000 was announced (or finished). MF was highly successful, and Cedar Fair contracted for TTD as the world's fastest, highest coaster before Wicked Twister was decided on. So Intamin wasn't having problems with it's rides yet. CF or CP absolutely takes much of the blame for pushing the issue of record, however Intamin could have said they couldn't do it, but maybe that's why Xcelerator was done, as a prototype / test platform for TTD. Adam S, your probably the one with the best insider info, does this ring a bell? Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 16:15:49 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76970 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 23:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 23:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 23:15:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.143] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 23:15:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:15:47 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 941 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.69 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re:Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, George Burnash wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:01:01 -0000, munkye1972 > wrote: > > > > > > As I understand it ToT's different than Supe. Also I didn't say I > > didn't like any of them. I like them all. However, seven seconds is a > > long time to take high G's, especially if you like to breathe! > > As I recall, the only difference between the two is that S:TE has two > tracks instead of one, ToT has a drop ride on their tower, and S:TE's > track/ tower is elevated because of the hill it's built on. Otherwise the > actual rides and mechanics are, to my recollection, pretty much identical. > > keep on ridin' > George Duh, Chris. I forgot how landform can affect the listed height of a ride. Supe starting on the mountain, while ToT runs just above ground. Drop lengths are the same, but tower heights are drastically different. Chris B From munkye1972@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 16:22:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24586 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2004 23:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2004 23:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2004 23:22:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2004 23:22:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:22:12 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006001c46b45$ec76ca60$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 660 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.92 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 206.39.111.20 Subject: Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > In a mannor of speaking however... if you really think of it, was Top Thrill > Dragster really such of an extreme push for Intamin? > > Thinking about it... I think Cedar Fair did just about whatever they could > to ensure a quality product from Intamin. > Cedar Fair on the other hand took the proper "baby steps" in the development > of Dragster. Amen... However, what they forgot is as speed, height or whatever factor increases, problems tend to compound exponentially, not linearly. That's true of any engineering problem, whether coaster, bridge or building. Chris B From IOASpiderman@addrealm.com Fri Jul 16 20:07:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: ioaspiderman@addrealm.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29685 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 03:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 03:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 03:07:02 -0000 Received: from smtp-mtc07.proxy.aol.com (smtp-mtc07.proxy.aol.com [64.12.118.20]) by rly-ip04.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN3-440f897b592; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:06:29 -0400 Received: from mikedell866 (ACAD6944.ipt.aol.com [172.173.105.68]) by smtp-mtc07.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6H3610D019428 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:06:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c46bab$96cb44e0$4469adac@mikedell866> To: References: <7E69B3E42D005149A8989DA9F57DE33FC10D45@mail.alpha-sys.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:10:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.43 X-Apparently-From: IOASpiderman@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.118.20 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.8 From: "Mike" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] RE: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=129739118 X-Yahoo-Profile: ioaspiderman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<<> I'm sure the > general public loves the rides, but I think at some point you > have to take quality over the bottom line. I won't comment on the rest of what you said, but this statement is where your logic breaks down. Always, please, remember that amusement parks are businesses. And in the case of publicly owned companies (such as Cedar Fair and Six Flags), there is nothing *but* the bottom line. The people who make decisions about what to do in their parks are not just being smart by paying attention to the bottom line, in fact they are required by law to do so. If the general public loves a ride, then that'll help the bottom line and therefore it's the right ride to have. It doesn't matter if it's a "quality" ride or how much us coaster geeks appreciate it. (It's possible to argue that "quality" is the way to go for the long-term financial health of a park, but that's difficult to prove -- assuming that it is even true.). >>> I don't think that's where my logic breaks down at all... I think that it is a difference in preference how to run a business, and the idea of overengineering and building quality stuff is more logical and far better than the current business trends of building whatever will boost the current numbers. If you deliver a quality product, you will get repeat customers and your numbers will stay consistent over time, and that goes for both coaster companies and amusment park chains and every other possible thing on the planet. In 10 years, nobody will care about Top Thrill Dragster, if it is even still there. In order to keep customers flowing in through the gate, they are going to have to build another huge ride. Cedar Fair got themself into that mess becuase they were too concerned about boosting their short term outlook, and they got too caught up in the formula that if you build a massive ride, people will come and ride it, and they didn't stop and think about other alternatives to running their business. It's the same way politicians pass legislation right before elections to boost their popularity... if they really were good, they wouldn't have to do that. Now look at Dollywood. They didn't have to spend a ton of money on their new coaster, or make it huge and fast. They bought a quality ride, and I'm sure they will be set for a longer time than CP is before they buy another ride. I think when the average person rides Top Thrill Dragster, they're not going to walk out of the park saying, "man, we have to come back here so we can ride TTD a couple more times". They ride it once, they can brag about how Xtreme they are to their friends, and that's it. They won't have any reason to go back until they build something bigger. Thunderhead, on the other hand, is a reliable ride that sounds like people will be wanting to come back to ride it becuase its FUN, at least a lot more than the short one trick pony TTD is. And thunderhead was far cheaper than TTD was, and it works cosistently. Which do you think is better business? Something that is cheaper, reliable, and fun, or something expensive, doesn't work often, and just the current ploy to draw people in through the gate? Mike IOASpiderman@addrealm.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lance@screamscape.com Fri Jul 16 20:08:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26037 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 03:08:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 03:08:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 03:08:44 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6H38gRn014684 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 71121 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 03:08:42 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 03:08:42 -0000 Message-ID: <01cd01c46bab$5cf0ef90$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <20040716034651.29134.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:08:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > And I'll be the wierdo and say that in a lot of ways I think it's to bad. > On my recent visit to Disneyland, I don't think that I would have managed > to get on Tower of Terror or California Screaming if it hadn't been for > Fastpass. While I won't deny that the system could certainly use some > tweaking, on a personal level I found it extremely useful on a visit to > the park and allowed me to do much more than I could have otherwise. I think some people have forgotten what the world was like before FastPass. Before FastPass, you could find short lines on attractions and ride them over and over. I remember one day a friend and I rode Twilight Zone 8 times in a row (Rock 'n Roller was still under construction) in the middle of a summer day. I remember park hopped into the Magic Kingdom with friends to hit Splash Mountain just before the park closed and getting in 2 or 3 rides in a row with no wait at all. FastPass killed all that by stuffing the queues full of virtual riders cutting in front of you. (I know, technically they aren't cutting, but the feeling is still there and it's not easy for anyone to get over that.) From MrStratosphere@aol.com Fri Jul 16 22:17:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83946 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 05:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 05:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 05:17:02 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.62.40cf37f4 (4004) for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62.40cf37f4.2e2a104a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:16:58 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.5 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Misc: Rides that have had or still have problems by ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dont forget TOGO Manhattan Express, NYNY Hotel & Casino, First year of operation, Structural problems, track cracking, welds in supports failing. This year, New Bogies, and Wheels, New Padding on restraints due to excessive head banging. New chain, worn chain snapped. New Brakes. 3 deaths related to brain aneurysm since ride opened. Viper, SFOT Morgan Steel Dragon 2000 Is it still SBNO due to one of the wheels flying off of the train???? John Mr. Stratosphere In a message dated 7/16/2004 12:58:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thunder7nyfl@aol.com writes: With the problems that have surfaced with rides this year, I thought it would be interesting to list rides by manufacturer and park that have had or still have problems - yes, any problems, so, here goes: INTAMIN Top Thrill Dragster, CP Xcelerator, KBF Superman, TE, SFMM Superman, TR, SFNE Perilus Plunge, KBF Flashback, SFMM Millenium Force, CP ARROW/S&S X, SFMM Drachen Fire, BGW Thrill Shot, SFMM (?) B&M none that I can think of. VEKOMA DejaVu, SFMM, SFOG, SFAm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 23:42:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83674 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 06:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 06:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 06:42:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2004 06:42:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 06:42:50 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <62.40cf37f4.2e2a104a@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 274 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.205.103 Subject: Re: Misc: Rides that have had or still have problems by ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: > Dont forget TOGO > > Manhattan Express, NYNY Hotel & Casino, >> 3 deaths related to brain aneurysm since ride opened. Whoa. That's a lot. Don't forget the problems Knott's had with Windjammer. Adam From gburnash@earthlink.net Sat Jul 17 07:32:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28441 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 14:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 14:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.12) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 14:32:25 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BlqEd-0000qD-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 17 Jul 2004 07:32:20 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <1c0.1bb7ce35.2e298efb@aol.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:32:18 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1c0.1bb7ce35.2e298efb@aol.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.12 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Misc: TOT and STE's Stats X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:05:15 EDT, wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2004 10:11:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, > gburnash@earthlink.net writes: > As I recall, the only difference between the two is that S:TE has two > tracks instead of one, ToT has a drop ride on their tower, and S:TE's > track/ tower is elevated because of the hill it's built on. Otherwise the > actual rides and mechanics are, to my recollection, pretty much > identical. > TOWER OF TERROR > Statistics > Length (feet):1235' > Height (feet):377' 4" > Drop (feet):328' 1" > SUPERMAN THE ESCAPE > Statistics > Track:LeftRight > Length (feet):1235' > Height (feet):415' > Drop (feet):328' 1" yep, all that basically saying pretty much exactly what I had said- that except for Supes having 2 tracks side by side, and being built on top of a hilll, they're exactly the same ride... keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From jzucker@alpha-sys.com Sat Jul 17 12:40:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jzucker@alpha-sys.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7605 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 19:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 19:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 19:40:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jul 2004 19:40:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:40:00 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000b01c46bab$96cb44e0$4469adac@mikedell866> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3181 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.86 From: "zucker0615" X-Originating-IP: 209.204.107.194 Subject: Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192106588 X-Yahoo-Profile: zucker0615 I hope you'll agree to "Sandy/Norris(tm)" this -- agree to disagree. <<< I think that it is a difference in preference how to run a business, and the idea of overengineering and building quality stuff is more logical and far better than the current business trends of building whatever will boost the current numbers. If you deliver a quality product, you will get repeat customers and your numbers will stay consistent over time, and that goes for both coaster companies and amusment park chains and every other possible thing on the planet. >>> I wish that this were always true. But in reality, I don't think that producing a quality product/service guarantees a financially successful business. <<< In 10 years, nobody will care about Top Thrill Dragster, if it is even still there. In order to keep customers flowing in through the gate, they are going to have to build another huge ride. Cedar Fair ... got too caught up in the formula that if you build a massive ride, people will come and ride it >>> Yes, and this is *my* point: In order to bring in guests, parks can't rely solely on smaller, less expensive, but higher-quality rides. They're just not as marketable. <<< Now look at Dollywood. They didn't have to spend a ton of money on their new coaster, or make it huge and fast. They bought a quality ride, and I'm sure they will be set for a longer time than CP is before they buy another ride. I think when the average person rides Top Thrill Dragster, they're not going to walk out of the park saying, "man, we have to come back here so we can ride TTD a couple more times". They ride it once, they can brag about how Xtreme they are to their friends, and that's it. They won't have any reason to go back until they build something bigger. >>> Again, this illustrates my point. The average Joe on the street (not one of us coaster geeks, and not someone who lives in the parks' local area) *might* have heard about Top Thrill Dragster which, in turn, might lead to them visiting CP. I guarantee that you'll have to look long and hard for a GP who's heard of Thunderhead. So, what's a better business choice from these two simplified examples: a) Build an expensive Xtreme machine that can bring in one-time visitors from all over the planet, or b) Build a quality ride that can bring repeat visits from a smaller group of mostly-local patrons? IMHO, the choice is not obvious. I will not agree with a blanket statement that "building quality rides is better for business." Or, as you put it: <<< Which do you think is better business? Something that is cheaper, reliable, and fun, or something expensive, doesn't work often, and just the current ploy to draw people in through the gate? >>> As you said, the expensive machine is used to "draw people in through the gate." That, my friend, is exactly the name of the game. If it works, that's what parks will do. You and I may prefer to have a continent covered with Thunderheads and Boulder Dashes, but you and I don't pay the bills. Jon Z (who's concerned that Clementon's website *still* says "15 days till Tsunami") From gburnash@earthlink.net Sat Jul 17 12:41:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65482 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 19:41:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 19:41:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.84) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 19:41:25 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Blv3j-0004yC-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 17 Jul 2004 12:41:23 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <142.2e62a2a9.2e299af2@aol.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:41:23 -0700 In-Reply-To: <142.2e62a2a9.2e299af2@aol.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.84 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:56:18 EDT, wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2004 4:46:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, > adamnvillani@yahoo.com writes: > This reminds me of something I'd been meaning to ask... why isn't > Freefall at SFMM considered a roller coaster? It travels with wheels > on a track from gravity. The broader question: what's the accepted > definition of a roller coaster? With some rides, it's obvious; with > others, less so. > Very good as I've been saying all along that S:TE was nothing more than a > glorified version of Freefall, but while S:TE is listed as a reverse > freefall > coaster, and Freefall is not, it is because Freefall does not start out > on a > coaster track. It goes up a tower, than drops on a track. A coaster in my > definition must start and finish on a track. Why oh why am I jumping into this one again? Aieeee Quite a while back, I saw probably the best definition of what a roller coaster is in a post on Thrillnetwork. I'm still kicking my self for not copying it and archiving it somewhere. But I'll do my best to cover what it said. And realize to, that with all the variety of rides out there now, there is no hard and fast definition of what a coaster is, and no matter how hard you try to define it exactly, you'll find exceptions to it. 1. It must be powered by gravity for at least a portion of the ride (hence the "coaster" part of the name) If a ride is under electric power or some other means of propulsion through the entire ride, it is not a coaster. This, in the end, is what eliminated "Fire in the Hole" at Silver Dollar City and it's twin at Dollywood for me. They're powered the entire trip, even though they have a couple of good drops on them. 2. It must roll on wheels through the entire ride. Exceptions can be made for the lift, but even there, the wheels must be in constant contact and remain in the same relation to the track throughout. This allows for coasters with elevator lifts (e.g. LocoSumo or Spellbreaker) because their wheels remain in constant contract with a portion of track while they are lifted- they do not get removed from the track then reattached. However, it also eliminates Freefall and other Intamin first generation drop rides because their wheels are not in constant contact with the track, but will use different sets of wheels at different points on the ride. 3. You need to go somewhere. It has to involve some sort of traveling out of a station on a track. This is why XScream, to me, isn't a coaster. While the train moves on it's track section, it really doesn't go anywhere, being firmly planted in the one spot on the tower, as opposed to traveling to another point on it. What you run into are those rides that are boderline or don't fit into the definition cleanly. S:TE, for me at least, is a very clear cut answer- it's a coaster. And I have yet to hear a meaningful reason why it's not, as most of the ones I've heard boil down to, "It doesn't feel like it." (But at the same time, that also underlies the end result of the entire argument- it's personal preference and opinion) Possibly the most confusing for me is the "water coasters", such as the Journey to Atlantis rides. I ended up counting the CA version of it, but not the Florida version. They both absolutely have roller coaster portions on them, but for me the Florida version is by a flume ride through the vast majority while the CA version comes out to around half and half. But again, that is another area for dispute. On a side note, it's been kind of funny, but the Freefall/ Demon Drop rides are pretty much not considered as coasters by the vast majority, but every now and then you'll find a person or two. However, they're almost always Cedar Point fans trying desparately to make sure that CP has the record for the most coasters and trying to count Demon Drop, while not realizing that SFMM has an exact copy of the same ride. Invariably they're disappointed when their attempt to secure the record for CP ends up in failure. :) Hope that helps. And I'm sure that some will chime in with their variations and disagreements on my definitions and results to. And I'm always open to some refining of my definition. Now if only I could find that one post again... keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From jay@karenandjay.com Sat Jul 17 16:27:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93300 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2004 23:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2004 23:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2004 23:27:04 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:25:21 -0700 Message-Id: <200407171625.AA77922366@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: MISC: TTD reopened? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme I heard from a usually reliable source (who was at CP yesterday) that TTD is back up and running already. Anyone else have info? Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Sat Jul 17 18:59:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77242 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 01:59:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 01:59:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 01:59:53 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.7b.2ea2f22b (2612) for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2004 21:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b.2ea2f22b.2e2b338d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 21:59:41 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.207 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: TTD reopened? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/2004 8:10:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, jay@karenandjay.com writes: I heard from a usually reliable source (who was at CP yesterday) that TTD is back up and running already. Anyone else have info? last info = still closed (even if they re-open it I will not ride it now based on the same thing happening twice - in my opinion the state of OH and CP/CF can certify it as being safe, but I do not trust the ride). I don't trust the manufacturer either. Sorry, but two of the same accidents in the same manner doesn't sit well with me. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Cyclonic07@aol.com Sat Jul 17 19:36:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Cyclonic07@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89645 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 02:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 02:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 02:36:16 -0000 Received: from Cyclonic07@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1ed.258f9389 (4214) for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ed.258f9389.2e2b3c1d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:36:13 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.207 From: Cyclonic07@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] MISC: TTD reopened? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=169705679 X-Yahoo-Profile: black7.geo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/2004 8:10:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, jay@karenandjay.com writes: I heard from a usually reliable source (who was at CP yesterday) that TTD is back up and running already. Anyone else have info? Jay *************************************************** Yup, it has been open for a few days now. During the day you can see it on the webcams. http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/webcam/camera2.cfm Nathan Brown AKA Cyclonic *************************************************** "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MrStratosphere@aol.com Sat Jul 17 23:50:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16378 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 06:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 06:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 06:50:55 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.f6.3d30b809 (24895) for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 02:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 02:50:52 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.139.137 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: Rides that have had or still have problems... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/2004 11:59:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, adamnvillani@yahoo.com writes: Whoa. That's a lot. Don't forget the problems Knott's had with Windjammer. Adam silly me, who could forget, oh wait, I was trying to. Well Xcelerator came of it. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Sun Jul 18 10:38:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12903 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 17:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 17:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 17:38:10 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.d6.f74ab06 (17228); Sun, 18 Jul 2004 13:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 13:37:55 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Cc: lance@screamscape.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.38 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: HOT OFF THE PRESS - CP - TTD X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The coaster did reopen the night before last (Friday night) per Guest Relations as I spoke to someone up there at the park regarding the ride a few minutes ago. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sun Jul 18 11:53:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1983 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 18:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 18:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 18:53:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.252] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2004 18:53:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:53:22 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304071610246486167f@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 657 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: TR: 07/04/2004 Holiday World & 07/05/2004 SFKK X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Beth Aslakson wrote: > I can finally leave for my next trip since I am now done with TRs > I don't know what it is about this park that brings out the worst in > people and I have no intention of going back to do any sort of > extensive study. I probably should have just left good enough alone > and ended my trip as planned with Holiday World. im still amazed that SF didnt sell off this park too earlier this year, like it did with WOA. i wonder if they tried and just didnt have any takers. i cant say id be surprised if this were the case. IMO the worst park in the chain, hands down. From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sun Jul 18 12:11:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55783 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 19:11:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 19:11:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 19:11:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.132] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2004 19:10:33 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:10:33 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304071610321f88963b@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1003 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.69 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: News: Speaking of the bottom line... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 from the first article; "Rather than spend on major thrill rides to draw guests, it went with a smaller budget aimed at winning back the consumer's satisfaction." but from some of the TR's ive seen here recently(SFKK, SFOG, and Great Escape all come to mind), things have not been addressed in the SF chain. what of rides that were supposed to be fixed? what of beautification and cleanings? from the tone of the article, they sold off property, applied a few band-aids, and patted each other on the back for a job well done. and now they cant figure out why attendance is down!? i also like how weather is blamed for low attendance in the northeast (i dont remember the weather being that bad in june), yet they make no mention of the accident on SROS. prices are still ridiculous for everything from tickets to parking, rides are running badly or not at all, accidents, employees with bad attitudes, general states of disrepair and neglegence...and they blame the weather. typical . From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sun Jul 18 12:13:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92222 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 19:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 19:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 19:13:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2004 19:12:19 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:12:19 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1e9.25344cb6.2e2989d9@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 262 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Dragster closed after riders exit bloodied... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, thunder7nyfl@a... wrote: I wouldn't be a bit surprised if S&S and B&M become the > builder of choice with all the problems that have happened this year. sounds like you think Intamin will go the way of Arrow. From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Sun Jul 18 12:23:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6259 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 19:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 19:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 19:23:36 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.155.39e2d3d1 (17228) for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <155.39e2d3d1.2e2c2830@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:23:28 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.5 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: Intamin, Arrow, S&S, B&M, Vekhoma (was Dragster closed...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/18/2004 3:15:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, dougjnelson@comcast.net writes: sounds like you think Intamin will go the way of Arrow. I think Intamin has some great rides out there with Xcelerator, Storm Runner, and Millenium Force, but some of the other rides out there need to be examined as far as why the problems are happening. It's interesting that TTD is back up and running, but I still don't trust the ride as I don't want to end up with burns and scratches from a ride that I am supposed to be enjoying. No, Intamin will not go the way of Arrow and be bought by another company. Arrow was on the comeback trail with the Fourth Dimension coasters before S&S bought them. I would like to see the 4 off-the-shelf versions of the 4th Dimensions be built somewhere as I think those rides are awesome. Just my two cents again. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sun Jul 18 12:29:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4155 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 19:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 19:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 19:29:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2004 19:29:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:29:20 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000b01c46bab$96cb44e0$4469adac@mikedell866> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 756 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote: > Which do you think is better business? Something that is cheaper, >reliable, and fun, or something expensive, doesn't work often, and >just the current ploy to draw people in through the gate? but i think that(sarcasm aside) is a business model that has been followed for both SF and CF, whether its the right approach or not. its more or less an appeal to stockholders, who want immediate results on their investment(especially SF, given their recent financial troubles). remember, it IS a business. i just dont think these 2 really are thinking long term, thats all. maybe they need to learn from Univeral, Disney or Busch to see how to think in the long term. From dougjnelson@comcast.net Sun Jul 18 12:38:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60700 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 19:38:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 19:38:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 19:38:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.116] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2004 19:37:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:37:50 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <155.39e2d3d1.2e2c2830@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 749 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Misc: Intamin, Arrow, S&S, B&M, Vekhoma (was Dragster closed...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, thunder7nyfl@a... wrote: >No, > Intamin will not go the way of Arrow and be bought by another company. i was just refering to the going-out-of-business aspect of it. > Arrow was > on the comeback trail with the Fourth Dimension coasters before >S&S bought > them. really? as i understood it, X is what sank them, not helped them. anyone know how they were doing financially before they took on X? I would like to see the 4 off-the-shelf versions of the 4th Dimensions be > built somewhere to dream the impossible dream.. and one last question, probably a silly one i know, but im wondering what thoughts are on this-do you think that in say, 5 years, TTD will go the way of The Bat? From gburnash@earthlink.net Sun Jul 18 12:40:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44189 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 19:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 19:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.48) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 19:40:14 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BmHW9-0002R7-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:40:14 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:40:14 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <74b0c9f304071610246486167f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304071610246486167f@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.48 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: 07/04/2004 Holiday World & 07/05/2004 SFKK X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:24:31 -0400, Beth Aslakson wrote: > I can finally leave for my next trip since I am now done with TRs from > the last one. :) Heh, I've still got one to do myself. Hopefully I'll get to it in the next couple of days. > As the day was winding down, I queued for my last ride of the night at > Raven again. For a park that has a 4th of July themed area, they don't > have a park-sponsored fireworks display on the 4th. However, ALL of > the area campgrounds have displays, so the area wasn't lacking for > fireworks even without any inside the park. As the end of the night > drew closer and the park got as dark as it was going to get, I got in > my last ride. I couldn't have asked for a better ending to the trip or > to the day, as I ended with a night ride on Raven after a rainstorm > with fireworks over Lake Rudolph from the campground. I have to admit, when you called and told me about that, I was a bit jealous. While we had a fun fourth, I think that yours probably topped ours by a good shot. > As I > was driving, I realized that my directions were going to put me in > Louisville before I veered north and I debated a quick stop at SFKK. I > called George to talk me out of it when I couldn't get a hold of Brian > and instead of talking me out of it he talked me into it. > I stopped in the gift shop, > called George again and had Dave give him a good wallop upside the > back of the head for talking me into going, and left. And wallop me he did! Had to admit, we had a pretty good laugh, with what I heard something like this: *phone rings* Beth: "Hand the phone to Dave" (no Hi, or anything else.) Me: "ok" pause *Whap* from Dave hitting me! > > Unfortunately, my other "needed" credit was T2. I tried my > best to ignore him, suffered through the most painful and worst SLC > ride I've ever had anywhere While I can't do much about the company at SFKK (sorry bout that), I did find one thing that helped me when I rode Hangman, the SLC at Wild Adventures. If I put my head in the back left side of the restraint, in the pocket with it also on the side of the restraint, then worked to keep it there I experienced absolutely no headbanging at all. It actually made the SLC quite a fun ride. I don't know if it'll work for all of them, but it did for one, and might be worth trying on others. And I've got a feeling that you'll see me again before the year is out to give me a follow up whack upside the head. :P keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Sun Jul 18 13:04:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47065 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 20:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 20:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 20:04:51 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.c4.10cd1f07 (17228) for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:04:39 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.3 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Misc: The Broken Arrow - Credit to Alan - This explains Arrow Dynamics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As in ANY industry these days, consolidation runs rampant - FleetBoston bought by Bank of America, SouthTrust bought by Wachovia, Bank One bought by JP Morgan Chase, ATT Wireless (the customer and network base only, the name is going back to ATT Corp) bought by Cingular Wireless, etc... Arrow Dynamics was just bought by S&S Power, Inc. as they saw an opportunity and ran with it. The following explains it all, and yes X did kill the company, but it at the same time was saving it, so instead of declaring chapter 13 (which is being insolvent) they went with chapter 11 which was only a reorganization of the company to make it profitable. S&S Power, Inc made an offer Arrow Dynamics could not refuse..... The Broken Arrow http://www.rollercoasterz.com/broken_arrow.htm It was just a few short years ago it seems that coaster designing firm, Arrow Dynamics, was at the top of their game. However after such incredible highs in the early 1990's, it was a shock to many to hear that the company had to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy back in January. What led to the decline of this monarchy of the coaster world? What exactly does "Chapter 11 bankruptcy" mean for the future of the company? Is Arrow Dynamics set up to once again return to it's perch atop the coaster world, or are they set up to fade away in the annuls of rollercoaster history? The first question that is asked is just how did Arrow Dynamics reach this point. In the late 1980's going into the early 1990's the company was building rides bigger and faster then anybody else. The company was without a doubt at the top of their game, they were making the most impressive rides that the coaster world had ever seen. However as the 90's moved on focus left Arrow and was shifted to a few new (and in some cases old) design firms that were making big names for themselves. As the 90's drew to a close Arrow Dynamics was no longer producing those massive coasters of just a few years before, in fact many of those huge that had made the company so huge came under fire from coaster critics and in the end some of them even ended up being removed. One of the most obvious reasons that Arrow Dynamics had such a downfall was the companies coming out with new concepts and overall better rides then those Arrow megalooper. Companies like B&M came out onto the scene and really took the spotlight from Arrow Dynamics. The same goes with long time designer Intamin AG, after several years of making rides, in the later part of the 1990's they stepped up and became one of the premier design firms in the world. Arrow came up with innovative ideas however, so what was it about these new companies that would help lead to the downfall of Arrow. The reason that companies like Intamin and B&M were suddenly doing so much better then Arrow was simple, their rides seemed to have much more imagination and were also a far more pleasant experience. It had become well known that Arrow rides did not age as well as one would hope, they often would become rough as time went on. The rides also lacked any real imagination. It got to a point where while the coasters were not exactly clones, they became very predictable. The predictability is something that I could argue will be attacking a few other major companies in the next few years. It has also became very apparent in the last several years that Arrow coasters don't hold up very well over time. In the case of two rides it would mean their eventually demise. In 1992 when Steel Phantom opened at Kennywood it did not only have the worlds tallest drop, but it also had several inversions, something not often found on hyper coasters. After just 10 years Steel Phantom was closed. The ride received a major redesign by DH Morgan and would reopen without any inversions and a slightly longer drop. Also built in the early 90's was Drachen Fire, a ride that has been closed for the last 3 years. Finally just a few weeks before I wrote this article, it was announced that the ride would be removed from the park. What was it that caused these two Arrow giants to fall from greatness? Most people agree that the biggest problem with the rides was that they became very rough. The fact is, people don't like to get beat up when they ride a coaster. However the Arrow rides were become rougher with ever passing season. It has become very common knowledge that as rides get rougher the number of people willing to ride decreases. That brings up some problems, that many people don't even realize. Let us say that you've got a ride in your park, as we just established, as the ride gets rougher the people will to ride decreases. When you have less people willing to ride the coaster, often the park will spend less money on maintenance, and instead focus on their newest popular rides. So now you have a coaster that is getting rougher with less people willing to ride. At some point the price to keep running the ride will become greater then the money the ride brings into the park. When this occurs often the park will stop running the ride and it enters a stage known as "Standing But Not Operating (which is better known as SBNO)." A ride that is not running is also not generating money and is taking up space, so a park is left with a few choices. They can try to fix the ride and return it to being popular, they can try to sell it, or they can just remove the ride and sell it for scrap. This problem would begin to plague Arrow in the last few years. As other parks are seeing their rides from just 10 years ago get removed, they become less willing to do work with the company. Arrow Dynamics had one final chance to try and save their crumbling company. They needed to produce a ride that would once again thrust them into the spotlight. News begun circulating in late 2000 right before the IAAPA (International Association of Amusement Parks & Attractions) conference. However to the surprise of many, Arrow did not make any huge announcements, in fact they made very little show at the industry's biggest trade show. About a month later however they did make the announcement that everybody was waiting for. The company announced that they planned to install their new 4th Dimension Rollercoaster (Which would be named X) at Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia California. While the ride sounded like a great idea, it would end up being a huge disaster for the company. Despite how bad it went however, would X prove to also be the ride that saved Arrow Dynamics? Many people ask me what I mean when I say that X is what would kill Arrow Dynamics, as well as save the company. Well the answer is more simple then you might think. X itself was a huge disaster for the company, the ride was delayed and missed it's big summer opening. However when the ride did eventually open this past January, it had a profound effect on it's riders, and quickly became arguably the most popular ride the park has ever added. The delays of the ride were actually the reported reason for Arrow having to file for Bankruptcy protection, however X did do something huge for Arrow. As the ride became popular it did bring the Arrow very much back into the coaster spotlight for something other then a ride being removed. Let's not kid ourselves, there are other parks out there who are very much considering getting a 4th Dimension coaster for their park. So while Arrow might have been killed while building X itself, that concept could very well help place them back in the designing game. One of the most asked questions is exactly what a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy means for the future of the company. Before looking at what it means for Arrow Dynamics, let's look at what filing for Chapter 11 means. Now keep in mind that the information I proved here is a very small amount, there are many other things involved in this type bankruptcy, it is a fairly complicated process. To keep it simple Chapter 11 Bankruptcy only means that the company will be reorganized under their existing management. The only true thing that Arrow will really be losing is that they will no longer be producing track in-house. While that sounds big, the fact of the matter is that most companies do not have in-house track production. What many people don't know is that this is not the first time that Arrow Dynamics has had to file for a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in November of 1984. Now keep in mind that just a few short years later Arrow Dynamics was atop of the coaster world, their rides were without a doubt the biggest and wildest that you could find. So now the question is presented, is it possible for Arrow to make a huge comeback? Without any doubt in my mind, Arrow Dynamics could make a comeback. The company just has so much to offer right now to the industry. However certain things must happen for Arrow if we are to see them return to the coaster limelight. Certain projects for the company must go through in order for the company to come back. Among the most important would be the Stratosphere Freefall ride. As you'll remember the ride has come up once already and was turned down by the City Council. However if the ride does eventually go through it would be a gigantic boost to the Arrow company. Arrow must also sell more copies of their 4th Dimension coaster if they hope to have a return to the top. The only other ride that they must begin selling are their Arrowbatic Inverted coasters. I think that if Arrow can pull all this together and maybe another trick or two, then they've got a good chance to return to the top of the design world. So as far as everybody saying that we'll never hear from Arrow Dynamics, don't bet on it. The company has been around for longer then most and I would be willing to wager that they'll be around for a lot longer. As much as people like to put them down this Arrow is very far from being broken. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Sun Jul 18 13:21:19 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99746 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 20:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 20:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 20:21:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 28068 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jul 2004 20:21:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20040718202118.28067.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:21:18 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Doug Nelson" at Jul 18, 2004 07:29:20 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > but i think that(sarcasm aside) is a business model that has been > followed for both SF and CF, whether its the right approach or not. > its more or less an appeal to stockholders, who want immediate > results on their investment(especially SF, given their recent > financial troubles). This approach never works .. look how it put Six Flags in the hole, and now Cedar Fair is suffering the same fate. There is no cheap and easy way to make a lot of money .. the only way is to run a good business - which is very tough. Six Flags thought they could just "barf up" rides in the parking lots of their big parks, and that people would flock over to ride them. Not So. Cedar Fair (well, just Cedar Point really) tried the same thing with Dragster, Wicked Twister and in a way Millennium, and look how good that turned out. Meanwhile smaller parks like Holiday World, Dollywood, Kennywood, Indiana Beach etc realize that you can make plenty of money simply by being nice to people .. and they seem to be breaking their own attendance records year after year. I do, very strongly, believe that in a few years Six Flags will be at the top of the game, while Cedar Fair will be struggling. It seems that Six Flags has already 'seen the light' and are trying to actually improve the parks (better advertising, better service etc). It will be several years until the positive effects can be felt - but it will happen (provided Six Flags can keep it up!). Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** It's drinking * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** the water!! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From cameron@buzzneon.com Sun Jul 18 13:24:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41449 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 20:24:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 20:24:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 20:24:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 28085 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jul 2004 20:24:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20040718202408.28084.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:24:08 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Doug Nelson" at Jul 18, 2004 06:53:22 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: TR: 07/04/2004 Holiday World & 07/05/2004 SFKK X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > im still amazed that SF didnt sell off this park too earlier this > year, like it did with WOA. i wonder if they tried and just didnt > have any takers. i cant say id be surprised if this were the case. > IMO the worst park in the chain, hands down. No way .. Six Flags America was far, far worse. Nothing but a bunch of rides built in the middle of some ugly fields. I will agree that Kentucky Kingdom isn't Zanadu, but it's light-years better than the barf-bag that is Six Flags America! Cameron. x -- Cameron Silver: ** It's drinking * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** the water!! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sun Jul 18 21:59:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33072 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 04:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 04:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 04:59:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 04:59:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:59:42 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 847 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 205.56.145.34 Subject: Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, George Burnash wrote: > On a side note, it's been kind of funny, but the Freefall/ Demon Drop > rides are pretty much not considered as coasters by the vast majority, but > every now and then you'll find a person or two. However, they're almost > always Cedar Point fans trying desparately to make sure that CP has the > record for the most coasters and trying to count Demon Drop, while not > realizing that SFMM has an exact copy of the same ride. Invariably > they're disappointed when their attempt to secure the record for CP ends > up in failure. :) > keep on ridin' > George I thought 6FMM removed the freefall ride back when they put in Riddler. Is it still there? It's been years since I made it there. (Goliath being the last new for me ride there.) Chris B From Xcoaster@juno.com Sun Jul 18 22:04:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: xcoaster@juno.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62565 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 05:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 05:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m28.nyc.untd.com) (64.136.22.91) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 05:04:41 -0000 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: S1XTBOmPsohiKv2kq6/VWjggXzjYxHDKTzOYimlyEV3rbymQDqBB3g== Received: (from xcoaster@juno.com) by m28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J2VKM77B; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:04:33 PDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:59:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20040718.215907.-1912653.2.Xcoaster@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.136.22.91 From: Xcoaster@juno.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61538169 X-Yahoo-Profile: xcoasterxtreme > I thought 6FMM removed the freefall ride back when they put in > Riddler. Is it still there? It's been years since I made it there. > (Goliath being the last new for me ride there.) Yeah, it's still there. Riddler's Revenge goes around it. Ryan Snooks Xcoaster@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From munkye1972@yahoo.com Sun Jul 18 22:05:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49933 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 05:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 05:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 05:05:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 05:05:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:05:01 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 615 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.67 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 205.56.145.37 Subject: Re: Misc: Rides that have had or still have problems... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, MrStratosphere@a... wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2004 11:59:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > adamnvillani@y... writes: > Whoa. That's a lot. > > Don't forget the problems Knott's had with Windjammer. > > Adam > silly me, who could forget, oh wait, I was trying to. Well Xcelerator came of > it. > John > Mr. Stratosphere Next month, I will be riding one of Windjammer's little brothers here in Japan. I never had a personal problem with it, and seeing the difference (over and over) between US TOGO's and those here in Japan, I'm sure I'll like it too. Chris B From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 00:18:01 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47612 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 07:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 07:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 07:18:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 07:17:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:17:57 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 344 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.206.98 Subject: Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "munkye1972" wrote: > I thought 6FMM removed the freefall ride back when they put in > Riddler. Nope, Freefall and Riddler happily coexist. I think most people tend to forget that Freefall's still there, considering all the big stuff that's been put up in the park since. Adam From rumors@absolutelyreliable.com Mon Jul 19 05:04:31 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: rumors@absolutelyreliable.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50669 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 12:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 12:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO meson.liquidweb.com) (64.91.249.99) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 12:04:29 -0000 Received: from cpanel by meson.liquidweb.com with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BmWsY-000762-65 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:04:22 -0400 Received: from 141.154.151.77 ([141.154.151.77]) by www.absolutelyreliable.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:04:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1090238662.40fbb8c61fcb0@www.absolutelyreliable.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:04:22 -0400 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <1089720201.676.47270.m12@yahoogroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1089720201.676.47270.m12@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - meson.liquidweb.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - absolutelyreliable.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.91.249.99 From: ARN&R X-Originating-IP: 141.154.151.77 Subject: Coney Island Cab For Cutie X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=131811069 X-Yahoo-Profile: childs.rm Today's NY Times has a terrific picture of Death Cab for Cutie playing in front of the Coney Island Cyclone as part of the Siren Festival. Heck of a lineup this year; wish I could've been there. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/19/arts/music/19SIRE.html From jay@karenandjay.com Mon Jul 19 06:18:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jay@karenandjay.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60711 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 13:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 13:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO karenandjay.com) (65.61.209.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 13:18:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 06:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: <200407190617.AA323485896@karenandjay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: X-Mailer: X-IMSTrailer: __IMail_7__ X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.61.209.5 From: "Jay Ducharme" Reply-To: Subject: Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65255884 X-Yahoo-Profile: jay_ducharme >a) Build an expensive Xtreme machine that can bring in one-time >visitors from all over the planet, or > >b) Build a quality ride that can bring repeat visits from a smaller >group of mostly-local patrons? < It really depends on what kind of a park we're talking about. The market is glutted now with "national" parks, amusement facilities that are know all over the country, if not the world. Those parks are the ones for whom the record-breakers are not only important but necessary. Cedar Point could no longer survive on just "local" business. They're so huge now that they *have* to be a destination park, a national tourist attraction like Disney. In that regard, they have no choice but to build rides that bring them national exposure. What a terrible position to be in! Lake Compounce isn't in that position. Neither is Seabreeze. Neither is Waldameer. Neither is Lakeside. They don't need nationwide recognition to stay in business, so they don't need the huge rides. That keeps their maintenance costs manageable, which means they don't need the huge crowds of a nationally-recognized park. Six Flags is an interesting hybrid: the name-recognition is national, but the parks are regional draws. You go to a Six Flags park because the brand name promises a certain experience that will be essentially similar from park to park (although we enthusiasts know that really isn't always the case). So whether or not a park needs a record-breaker depends upon whether the park needs the percentage gain in attendance, and whether its a "destination" park. Jay ________________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Data Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Get It Now At www.doteasy.com From munkye1972@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 07:00:26 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: munkye1972@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56640 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 14:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 14:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 14:00:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.113] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 13:57:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:57:50 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4730 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.74 From: "munkye1972" X-Originating-IP: 205.56.145.37 Subject: TR: Yokohama Cosmoworld X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743306 X-Yahoo-Profile: munkye1972 Park: Yokohama Cosmoworld Date: 18July04 (My B-day to me!) Weather: lower 90's, humid Crowds: Light but increasing Cosmoworld is located in downtown Yokohama, across the channel from=20 the Landmark Tower. I took the train to the subway, 1060 yen round=20 trip. Exiting the subway through the Queen's tower exit, I walked=20 around a corner to be greeted by the sight of the "Cosmo Clock 21,"=20 Cosmoworld's 369 foot tall Ferris wheel. The clock said it was 9:34,=20 but wasn't rotating. I had guessed either a 9 or 10 opening, but was=20 surprised to find that it wouldn't open until 11! I walked around the park, taking a few pictures and then crossed the=20 street to hang out in the neighboring mall: Yokohama World Porters.=20 From the rooftop garden, I got a couple more shots, and then went=20 down to the food court to kill the clock. A few minutes before opening, I queued up for the entrance. At 11,=20 the gate opened, and I learned that this park has no entrance fee,=20 but no Pay-One-Price plan, either. I opted to pay 2800 yen for=20 34 "tickets," and proceeded to work my way up to Diving Coaster=20 Vanish's station.=20 This park was much smaller than I expected, and covers most of a=20 large city block. 5 dark rides fill a 4 story building along with=20 some small shops, eateries, and arcades. DCV's station is on the 3rd=20 floor, and I boarded the second train of the day, near the back.=20 This Senyo creation's trains (2 trains, 6 cars, 2x2) were a little=20 cramped, but not uncomfortable for my 5'9'' frame. If no one has=20 caught a trend in my TR's from Japan, be warned, if you are over 6=20 foot OR 250 pounds, you will not be able to ride the vast majority of=20 Japan's hundreds of coasters.=20 As with most Japanese parks, the ops were friendly, efficient, but=20 not particularly fast. With a few deaths here in Japan, as well as=20 around the world, they take their job seriously.=20 The train curves 180 degrees to the right out of the station, hits=20 brakes, and engages the lift hill ridiculously slowly. After creeping=20 1/3 of the way up the hill, it does speed up, but it's still a slow=20 trip to the top.=20 There are two sweeping drops turning right then left before the "big"=20 drop into the tunnel. They are nice, but no air. The "famous" vanish=20 drop isn't as big as I thought, and the track in the tunnel is quite=20 rough. The flume ride passes under the drop, and fountains spray in=20 time with the train's drop to create an appearance that the coaster=20 is splashing down in the pool. Climbing out of the tunnel, the track=20 is almost a double-up, providing a bit of air on the first up. Next,=20 the train turns into a nearly 700 degree downward helix with some=20 impressive lateral G's before rising up into the pre-station brake=20 run.=20 DCV is not world class, but for a coaster smack dab in the middle of=20 a large city, it is neat. It has an odd appearance with its pink=20 track with gray supports and it's "wicker basket" battering ram=20 shaped trains. Also, some of the supports are thin to the point of=20 delicate, and the lift hill has an unusual doubled spine.=20 Not top 100, due to it's rough handling, but at least it is unique,=20 unlike all those SLC's.=20 Next, I climbed up to the 5th floor roof to ride Spinning Coaster.=20 This did not have the same layout as most of the other spinners I've=20 ridden. It has two sections of switchbacks, and the cars only spin=20 for the second half. Still, like all spinning mice, this had me=20 laughing out loud as my unbalanced car spun like a top.=20 Third, I worked my way down to the ground floor for a ride on the=20 Cliff Drop, Cosmo's flume ride. With no theming, its only saving=20 point is that on both drops (small then large) the logs ride through=20 downhill turns on the wheels before each drop. A 90 degree downhill=20 right before the first drop, and 90 left, then 90 right before the=20 larger drop. This was new for me, and was fun, building some speed=20 before dropping out instead of the usual drop off the conveyor.=20 I checked out two of the dark rides before finishing up my ticket on=20 a second (front row) trip on DCV. A bit smoother in front, but still=20 Arrow/Vekoma rough.=20 In all Yokohama Cosmoworld is a bit sterile, but a decent time. I=20 would have preferred a POP entrance, to hit the last 3 rides, as I=20 didn't want to spend another 1500 yen for what appeared to be more=20 tiny dark rides. One was an interactive shooter though.=20 On the way to a late lunch at Hard Rock Caf=E9, I passed through=20 Cosmo's recent expansion across the river. Mostly kiddy rides, there=20 were two flats: an Enterprise, and another spinning ride with=20 bouncing cars. There's also a cycle monorail. 500 yen a ride? Forget=20 it. I'm hungry.=20 This is an example of how a park can get expensive fast, here in=20 Japan. From shiveringtimbers2000@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 08:13:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: shiveringtimbers2000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43343 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 15:13:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 15:13:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 15:13:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 15:12:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:12:41 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1090238662.40fbb8c61fcb0@www.absolutelyreliable.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 330 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.89 From: "Chris" X-Originating-IP: 207.24.168.10 Subject: Re: Coney Island Cab For Cutie X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=89457996 X-Yahoo-Profile: chrisbaran_express --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, ARN&R wrote: > Heck of a lineup this year; wish I could've been there. You're not kidding. There were some really great bands. Did anyone on this list make it? I'm particularly curious how the Mission of Burma set was, as well as The Ponys (one of my hometown faves). From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 08:14:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76663 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 15:14:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 15:14:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 15:14:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 15:10:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:10:46 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200407190617.AA323485896@karenandjay.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1005 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 66.245.207.165 Subject: Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Ducharme" wrote: > >a) Build an expensive Xtreme machine that can bring in one-time > >visitors from all over the planet, or > > > >b) Build a quality ride that can bring repeat visits from a smaller > >group of mostly-local patrons? < ... > They're so huge now that they *have* to be a destination park, a > national tourist attraction like Disney. In that regard, they have no choice but to build rides that bring > them national exposure. Note that Universal and Disney are national draws, yet don't rely on the "biggest, tallest, fastest" roller coasters to create that draw, instead promising unique experiences. Universal is probably the extreme in this case--- I don't have their attendance breakdown, but at least for their park in Hollywood, I'm sure they get very little local business, and even less repeat business from locals. They mostly rely on tourists being wowed by anything related to the movie industry. Adam From jzerkel@consolidated.net Mon Jul 19 11:27:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jzerkel@consolidated.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20632 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 18:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 18:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO email.consolidated.net) (216.176.95.171) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 18:27:14 -0000 Received: from jcz (client-216-176-76-53.consolidated.net [216.176.76.53]) by email.consolidated.net (MOS 3.4.8-GR) with SMTP id CQP57407; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:27:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000a01c46dbf$29918400$0b01a8c0@jcz> To: "Roller Coaster Talk" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:35:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.176.95.171 From: "Jon Zerkel" Subject: Slow day at Yahoo! news? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=158580138 X-Yahoo-Profile: jzerkel68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Maybe some others on this list have Yahoo! as their homepage (it is mine) but I thought it was intersting that this news article appeared today in their little box titled "Yahoo News." Of course, this is more like "ancient history" than it is news for most of us in the enthusiast community. But, I did have one comment regarding CP's use of the handstamp. To this day, I actually remember the first time I heard swearing coming from my lips. I was probably about 8 or 9 years old, attending the county fair in my hometown. The midway had a deal where kids could ride unlimited rides on a particular day after purchasing a handstamp. After about 30 or 40 minutes in the middle of a hot, sticky, July summer in Illinois, the sweat had caused my handstamp to become virtually undistinguishable. The carnie refused to let me ride any more rides that day, and nobody believed me when I told them...."I DID pay for the handstamp!" Needless to say, I was a very unhappy little boy. I've sometimes wondered if CP ever experiences similar problems? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=8&u=/ap/20040719/ap_on_re_us/theme_park_lines [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Xcoaster@juno.com Mon Jul 19 11:56:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: xcoaster@juno.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81473 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 18:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 18:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m28.nyc.untd.com) (64.136.22.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 18:56:05 -0000 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: S1XTBOmPsohiKv2kq6/VWhB+BSmGhPiskUEdG4NViuJMMShq7AIUug== Received: (from xcoaster@juno.com) by m28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J2W262ZZ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:55:08 PDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:49:31 -0700 Message-ID: <20040719.114932.-1942173.3.Xcoaster@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,16-17,19-21 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.136.22.91 From: Xcoaster@juno.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=61538169 X-Yahoo-Profile: xcoasterxtreme > Note that Universal and Disney are national draws, yet don't rely on > the "biggest, tallest, fastest" roller coasters to create that draw, > instead promising unique experiences. Universal is probably the > extreme in this case--- I don't have their attendance breakdown, but > at least for their park in Hollywood, I'm sure they get very little > local business, and even less repeat business from locals. They > mostly rely on tourists being wowed by anything related to the movie > industry. I think that's very true. I don't think I've been to USH for about 8 years now and I live about 2.5-3 hours away. However, we do plan on going on the 29th after my placement testing at UCI. Does anyone know of any good discounts? Also, are they still doing that thing where they close down the bottom portion of the park early? If so, how early? Because I probably won't be getting there until about 3, and I'm mostly going to ride the Mummy and the things that have opened since I last went (JP, T2, etc.). BTW, sorry if you get this reply more than once. Yahoo keeps telling me that I'm bouncing and that the message is undeliverable. Ryan Snooks Xcoaster@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From dougjnelson@comcast.net Mon Jul 19 12:04:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dougjnelson@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16269 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 19:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 19:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 19:04:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 19:03:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:03:36 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1090238662.40fbb8c61fcb0@www.absolutelyreliable.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 467 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Doug Nelson" X-Originating-IP: 24.218.221.184 Subject: Re: Coney Island Cab For Cutie X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=190962486 X-Yahoo-Profile: fluffythegod3000 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, ARN&R wrote: > Today's NY Times has a terrific picture of Death Cab for Cutie playing in front > of the Coney Island Cyclone as part of the Siren Festival. Heck of a lineup > this year; wish I could've been there. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/19/arts/music/19SIRE.html damn, that is pretty good lineup. i would have gone just to see TV on the Radio. how come i always here about these things late!? From aelk2004@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 13:11:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32466 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 20:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 20:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 20:11:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 20:10:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:10:19 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1092 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.91 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: NEWS: Marvel Sues Disney Over Royalties X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 They just can't seem to win lately. -Alan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By Russ Britt, CBS.MarketWatch.com July 16, 2004 LOS ANGELES (CBS.MW) -- Marvel Enterprises said Friday that it has filed suit against Walt Disney Co. over royalties stemming from animated shows that run on Disney's ABC Family Network. Marvel is accusing Disney of improperly accounting costs and royalty distribution on three animated series based on its Spider-Man, X-Men and Incredible Hulk characters. The suit was filed late Thursday. Disney has been inadequately accounting income on the three series since it bought the cable network from News Corp. in 2001, according to the suit. As a result, Marvel alleges it has missed out on $6 million in royalties and that Disney is improperly accounting costs by roughly $16 million, working against Marvel's favor. "To be fair, Disney inherited properties that it never controlled or produced," said Marvel attorney Carole Handler. "[But] it was given short shrift. It's a breach of duty." Disney representatives did not immediately return calls seeking comment. From aelk2004@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 13:12:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97219 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 20:12:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 20:12:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 20:12:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 20:08:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:08:53 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 298 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Rumor: Universal Shanghai Suspended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 This is repost from another site. They didn't sight a source, so I'm listing it as a rumor. -Alan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Authorities in Shanghai have suspended work on a Universal Studios theme park, as China slows down major building projects in an effort to cool off surging economic growth. From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Mon Jul 19 13:50:08 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56918 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 20:50:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 20:50:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m15.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.205) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 20:50:07 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.1df.2598c4c5 (4426) for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1df.2598c4c5.2e2d8dc4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:49:08 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.205 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Marvel Sues Disney Over Royalties X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is everyone out to do in the Disney Corp? Do they think because of Michael Eisner that this "dog" is just going lay down and me blasted by everyone? If Disney thought there was something wrong I am sure they would've paid them the monies due as the characters are legally copyrighted to Marvel. On another note, Marvel isn't making enough off Spidey 2 that they have to after Disney? Just my 2cents as usual. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From thunder7nyfl@aol.com Mon Jul 19 13:50:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73187 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 20:50:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 20:50:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 20:50:34 -0000 Received: from THUNDER7NYFL@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.ce.527a8d85 (4426) for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:49:45 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5113 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.3 From: thunder7nyfl@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Marvel Sues Disney Over Royalties X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=185590975 X-Yahoo-Profile: thunder7nyfl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is everyone out to do in the Disney Corp? Do they think because of Michael Eisner that this "dog" is just going lay down and be blasted by everyone? If Disney thought there was something wrong I am sure they would've paid them the monies due as the characters are legally copyrighted to Marvel. On another note, Marvel isn't making enough off Spidey 2 that they have to after Disney? Just my 2cents as usual. THUNDER7NYFL@AOL.COM Tampa Bay Lightning, 2004 Champions, NHL Ride the Lightning, Metallica's 2004 Album [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adamnvillani@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 14:13:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: adamnvillani@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75792 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 21:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 21:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 21:13:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2004 21:11:32 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:11:32 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040719.114932.-1942173.3.Xcoaster@juno.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1213 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.67 From: "adamnvillani" X-Originating-IP: 209.118.28.4 Subject: Re: Bottom line X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=145821173 X-Yahoo-Profile: adamnvillani --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, Xcoaster@j... wrote: > I think that's very true. I don't think I've been to USH for about > 8 years now and I live about 2.5-3 hours away. However, we do plan > on going on the 29th after my placement testing at UCI. Does > anyone know of any good discounts? I actually went from about 1980 to 2000 without visiting, and I live less than an hour away. There's just not all that much there, especially for the expense. I do plan to try out the Mummy ride sometime soon. Carl's Jr. had some coupons for, I think $12 off each admission, but there are also Coca-Cola cans out there with $15 off each admission, good until September 5. When we did go, we got to the park actually before the scheduled 8 A.M. opening time, and they let us in. We went on a flurry of activity in the morning, hitting T-2 and everything in the lower area as fast as possible before taking the tram ride and watching shows in the afternoon. By 5 P.M. we had literally been to every attraction in the park, including shows, except for the Rugrats thing they had. > Also, are they still doing that thing where they close > down the bottom portion of the park early? No idea. Adam From gburnash@earthlink.net Mon Jul 19 14:30:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gburnash@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55177 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.46) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 21:30:11 -0000 Received: from user-0cal67e.cable.mindspring.com ([24.170.152.238] helo=Desktop) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Bmfi5-0001Ba-00 for RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:30:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:30:10 -0700 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com References: <1df.2598c4c5.2e2d8dc4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1df.2598c4c5.2e2d8dc4@aol.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.46 From: George Burnash Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Marvel Sues Disney Over Royalties X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115345197 X-Yahoo-Profile: gburnash On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:49:08 EDT, wrote: > What is everyone out to do in the Disney Corp? Do they think because of > Michael Eisner that this "dog" is just going lay down and me blasted by > everyone? I don't think that is has to do with wanting to "do in" Disney, as Disney screwing up their books. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that they've been accused of doing so, and I don't think that it's the first time they've been sued over it to. > If Disney thought there was something wrong I am sure they would've paid > them > the monies due as the characters are legally copyrighted to Marvel. Of course, if they're screwing up their books (which would account for the cost discrepency), then they wouldn't know if something was wrong or not. And if they're unwilling to check it out because it would cost them money... And when they're really trying to pinch every dollar they can to try to show that Eisner is turning a profit rather than losing money... (though again, I'm fairly confident that this would have nothing to do with Eisner) Seems to me that we should wait and see how it turns out before we assume one way or the other though. But Disney isn't the innocent company that it may have been in the long distant past. On > another note, Marvel isn't making enough off Spidey 2 that they have to > after > Disney? Just my 2cents as usual. I dunno, if it was me, it wouldn't matter much how well one project was doing. If I was losing $6 million on another because of someone else's screwups, I'd certainly go after them to. keep on ridin' George -- Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down. But with God life is one neverending thrill ride. From afrsandy@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 14:59:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71658 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 21:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 21:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.227) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 21:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 21:59:36 -0000 To: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:59:32 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.227 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: RE: Misc: The Broken Arrow - Credit to Alan - This explains Arrow Dynamics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy Interesting article. Although being my nitpicky self there are some things I will disagree with.... >As the 90's drew to a close Arrow Dynamics was no longer producing those massive coasters of just a few years before, in >fact many of those huge that had made the company so huge came under fire from coaster critics and in the end some of them >even ended up being removed. As many have said "coaster critics" don't matter. Lawsuits and injuries matter (i.e. "Money talks and bullshit walks."). >The same goes with long time designer Intamin AG, after several years of making rides, in the later part of the >1990's they stepped up and became one of the premier design firms in the world. I think Stengel did the layouts, static and dynamic calculations for the Intamin coasters, so they didn't design a lot of their coasters starting with SROS, they just worked on a general concept with the customer. >The rides also lacked any real imagination. It got to a point where while the coasters were not exactly clones, they became >very predictable. The predictability is something that I could argue will be attacking a few other major companies in the >next few years. I would argue that predictability, cloning or whatever you want to call it is a non-issue and didn't really effect anyone economically. It helped manufacturers sell rides cheaper because not every coaster was a custom one and let parks afford them. >It has also became very apparent in the last several years that Arrow coasters don't hold up very well over time. >Most people agree that the biggest problem with the rides was that they became very rough. The fact is, people don't like >to get beat up when they ride a coaster. However the Arrow rides were become rougher with ever passing season. As has been bandied about here before, Arrow's coasters didn't get rougher with age. Sure, when the wheels wore they got some slop in them and if maintenance budgets changed the amount of care a coaster got changed, but for the most part they ride pretty similar to when they opened. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com "I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that I'm going to remember." Ryan Adams *************** From lance@screamscape.com Mon Jul 19 15:05:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50025 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 22:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 22:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.globat.com) (216.193.201.31) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 22:05:52 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail1.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6E5kgEd087843 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 94089 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 05:46:29 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 05:46:29 -0000 Message-ID: <02b101c46965$edb51ee0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: <20040714051656.9953.qmail@buzzneon.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:46:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.31 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > But the major problem with air (or hydraulic) launch is that it's not > possible to launch a moving train (like Volcano, or the Impulse > coasters) ... to me, that is the best use of the launch gimmick.. It is a neat trick on Volcano and the Impulse coasters, but the extra little boost you get on Speed: The Ride is hardly notable. Of course there is no reason you couldn't mix and match the two technologies to use air for the big launch and hit a few LIM zones for bursts of extra speed. From IOASpiderman@addrealm.com Mon Jul 19 15:43:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: ioaspiderman@addrealm.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8363 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 22:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 22:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.7) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 22:43:28 -0000 Received: from smtp-dtc04.proxy.aol.com (smtp-dtc04.proxy.aol.com [205.188.118.82]) by rly-ip03.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN6-740fc4e4422e; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:42:12 -0400 Received: from mikedell866 (AC8D7E29.ipt.aol.com [172.141.126.41]) by smtp-dtc04.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i6JMgQCI032225 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:42:36 -0400 Message-ID: <003601c46de2$42984b50$297e8dac@mikedell866> To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:46:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.43 X-Apparently-From: IOASpiderman@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.118.82 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.7 From: "Mike" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] NEWS: Marvel Sues Disney Over Royalties X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=129739118 X-Yahoo-Profile: ioaspiderman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Why does this lawsuit have something to do with Michael Eisner and everyone's hatred of Disney? If you look at the article, they don't even seem to place the entire blame on Disney, saying that Disney inherited the network. I'm sure they would be doing the same exact thing if it was 20th Century Fox that owned it instead of Disney. Either way, if Disney really is taking more money than they should off of Marvel's ideas, Marvel shouldn't sit back and do nothing about it. I mean, I don't even think it's about the money... if Disney was making extra money off my idea by not paying me what we agreed on, I would sue them as well. Mike IOASpiderman@addrealm.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cameron@buzzneon.com Mon Jul 19 16:26:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73050 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 23:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 23:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 23:26:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 9940 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jul 2004 23:25:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20040719232516.9939.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:25:16 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <02b101c46965$edb51ee0$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> from "Lance Hart" at Jul 14, 2004 01:46:31 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > > But the major problem with air (or hydraulic) launch is that it's not > > possible to launch a moving train (like Volcano, or the Impulse > > coasters) ... to me, that is the best use of the launch gimmick.. > > It is a neat trick on Volcano and the Impulse coasters, but > the extra little boost you get on Speed: The Ride is hardly > notable. Oh .. isn't that just to get the train high enough to ensure it won't valley on the return run? I've never riden any of the premier shuttles .. but it was the impression that I had! Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Think about it * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** Think about it * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From afrsandy@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 17:01:39 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46589 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 00:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 00:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 00:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO AdamSandy) (afrsandy@68.33.103.44 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 00:01:24 -0000 To: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:01:21 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.223 From: "Adam Sandy" Subject: Re: Misc: Intamin, Arrow, S&S, B&M, Vekhoma (was Dragster closed...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy >really? as i understood it, X is what sank them, not helped them. anyone know how they were doing financially before they >took on X? Bad. X had the potential to turn the company around, but when you have a simple case of more money going out than coming in it doesn't matter how much potential a concept has. When money out is more than money in you don't have the cash flow to do business. Adam *************** Adam Sandy Salon.com- No McNews Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com I am in the twilight of my youth. Not that Im going to remember. Ryan Adams *************** From cameron@buzzneon.com Mon Jul 19 17:43:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49673 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 00:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 00:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 00:43:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 10503 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jul 2004 00:43:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20040720004303.10502.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:43:03 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Adam Sandy" at Jul 19, 2004 08:01:21 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: Intamin, Arrow, S&S, B&M, Vekhoma (was Dragster closed...) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > >really? as i understood it, X is what sank them, not helped them. anyone > know how they were doing financially before they > >took on X? > > Bad. X had the potential to turn the company around, but when you have a > simple case of more money going out than coming in it doesn't matter how > much potential a concept has. Also .. I've heard that Arrow was in such bad shape that X was their only hope. They would have gone away anyway, so they had no choice but to try and build what Six Flags was asking. Cam. -- Cameron Silver: ** Have you seen * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** this chicken? * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From MrStratosphere@aol.com Mon Jul 19 22:03:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: MrStratosphere@aol.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62493 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 05:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 05:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m18.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.208) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 05:03:35 -0000 Received: from MrStratosphere@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id r.8c.ff62c1e (4592) for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c.ff62c1e.2e2e019b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:03:23 EDT To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.208 From: MrStratosphere@aol.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: Misc: TTD's Accident/Incident X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170560959 X-Yahoo-Profile: stratbigshot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2004 4:30:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cameron@buzzneon.com writes: Oh .. isn't that just to get the train high enough to ensure it won't valley on the return run? I've never riden any of the premier shuttles .. but it was the impression that I had! Cameron. Yes, just like Mr. Freeze (both) where there is a vertical section of LIMs to get the train high enough to make it back through the top hat. Though I've noticed various platforms incase the train does valley, Speed: The Ride also has these catwalks along the track. John Mr. Stratosphere [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lance@screamscape.com Mon Jul 19 22:25:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98502 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 05:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 05:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 05:25:06 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6K5P19R002967 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:25:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 57487 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 05:25:01 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 05:25:01 -0000 Message-ID: <050801c46e19$eb790070$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:25:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] RE: Misc: The Broken Arrow - Credit to Alan - This explains Arrow Dynamics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > As has been bandied about here before, Arrow's coasters didn't get rougher > with age. Sure, when the wheels wore they got some slop in them and if > maintenance budgets changed the amount of care a coaster got changed, but > for the most part they ride pretty similar to when they opened. I agree... it's not that Arrow coasters became rougher... it's that the new kid on the block (B&M) suddenly was producing rides that were smooth as glass, making all of the previous rides from Arrow, Vekoma and Intamin feel like jackhammers by comparison. Even Schwarzkopfs rides were rough by comparison if you happened to try one of of his rare rides with OTS. Just look at how Revolution at SFMM was ruined when they had OTS added to the Schwarzkopf lap-bar only trains. Even worse, they added the same rock hard Intamin OTS that they already knew people hated from Flashback to it. From spartankicker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 20 07:56:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: spartankicker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76510 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 14:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 14:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web81705.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.136) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 14:56:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20040720145612.23755.qmail@web81705.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.109.2.183] by web81705.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:56:12 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:56:12 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.136 From: Bryan Wood Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Rumor: Universal Shanghai Suspended X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120409146 X-Yahoo-Profile: spartankicker --- aelk2004 wrote: > This is repost from another site. They didn't sight > a source, so I'm > listing it as a rumor. > -Alan It's true. I posted it on ThrillNetwork with a link to the original source: http://www.thrillnetwork.com/stories_view.php/429 -Bryan ===== I'm Bryan Wood, and I approve of this message. spartankicker@yahoo.com From afrsandy@yahoo.com Tue Jul 20 08:01:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: afrsandy@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3723 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 15:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 15:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52907.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.184) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 15:01:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20040720150115.9286.qmail@web52907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.238.5.14] by web52907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:01:15 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:01:15 -0700 (PDT) To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.39.184 From: Adam Sandy Subject: N EWS: Carowinds tells workers to exit after shift X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=81405820 X-Yahoo-Profile: afrsandy I guess the park will have to change their number one perk for employees. From thier site, "Unlimited FREE use of the Park! (when not working)" (http://www.carowinds.com/jobs_benefits.jsp?iType=1) Adam ------------------- Carowinds tells workers to exit after shift Employees shocked; park wants to reduce on-duty socializing MIKE DRUMMOND Staff Writer Paramount's Carowinds, the regional theme park that boasts some of the scariest rides in the Carolinas, has shocked some of its seasonal teen workers by banning them from the grounds after their shifts end. The edict implemented last week removes a coveted perk that helps lure some 2,000 mostly young workers during the park's operating season in spring, summer and early fall months. Carowinds notified employees that the company was unsuccessful in preventing off-duty employees from socializing with those on duty, noting that "the guest experience is compromised" when off-duty employees hang around. It's the first time in its 31-year history that Carowinds has issued such a policy targeting its teen work force, and goes beyond workplace policies of other major theme parks, including The Walt Disney Co.'s Disneyland and Disney World properties and Anheuser-Busch Adventure Parks' Sea World attractions. Carowinds spokesman David Mandt said too many off-duty workers, often wearing portions of their khaki pant and blue-shirt uniforms, were socializing with on-duty employees, creating the wrong image for paying customers. Teens have been the targets of crackdowns at popular hang-out spots. Last summer, adults complained about roving groups of unsupervised youths at Birkdale Village in Huntersville. However, Mandt said rowdiness did not factor into the decision at Carowinds, which straddles the N.C.-S.C. state line off I-77. He noted that employees are welcome to visit the park on their days off for free, a savings of $42.99 on the price of adult admission. "We made this change to enhance the overall park experience for our paying guests," Mandt said. "The expectation is, if you're not working, you shouldn't be in the park." Disneyland spokesman Bob Tucker said the Anaheim, Calif., attraction's policy is to allow off-duty workers to linger at what the company calls the happiest place on Earth, provided they change costumes or uniforms and remove name tags. Disneyland also grants free access for up to four guests of workers, except during the peak months of July and August. "We want to encourage employees to be guests ... so they see the park from the guests' eyes," Tucker said. Sea World offers similar perks. Young seasonal Carowinds workers contacted for this story didn't want their names used for fear of losing their jobs. One employee, a 21-year-old ride operator, said while the $6.30 an hour pay wasn't the greatest, entree to the park after a work shift represented one of the main reasons to work at Carowinds. "They should have picked out who was abusing the privileges and fired them instead of punishing the whole," he said. Another called the policy "stupid." A mother of one Carowinds employee said the new policy is a disservice for many workers who must wait out of sight at Carowinds for parents to finish their own jobs to get rides home. Mandt said off-duty workers are welcome to wait at Oscar's, the air-conditioned employee cafe in the back of the park. ===== *************** Adam Sandy Webmaster: http://history.amusement-parks.com/ Webmaster: http://www.flatrides.com Historian: http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com *************** From aelk2004@yahoo.com Tue Jul 20 08:18:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: aelk2004@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50106 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 15:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 15:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 15:18:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.119] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul 2004 15:17:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:17:24 -0000 To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01cd01c46bab$5cf0ef90$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 853 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.74 From: "aelk2004" X-Originating-IP: 192.133.42.1 Subject: Re: NEWS: Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=174904329 X-Yahoo-Profile: aelk2004 --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Hart" wrote: > SNIP > I think some people have forgotten what the world was like before FastPass. > Before FastPass, you could find short lines on attractions and ride them > over and over. I remember one day a friend and I rode Twilight Zone 8 times > in a row (Rock 'n Roller was still under construction) in the middle of a > summer > day. However, you're talking about MGM Studios, the least visited of the parks. I've done the same thing on TOT too. > I remember park hopped into the Magic Kingdom with friends to hit > Splash Mountain just before the park closed and getting in 2 or 3 rides in a > row with no wait at all. The statement "just before the park closed" is the clue there. Most of the rides are walk-on just before closing. Even during the peak season. -Alan From bethtoons@gmail.com Tue Jul 20 08:39:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43885 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 15:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 15:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.240) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 15:39:53 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so2462796cwb for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.3 with SMTP id v3mr310424cwb; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304072008396217e4d3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:39:52 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c46dbf$29918400$0b01a8c0@jcz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <000a01c46dbf$29918400$0b01a8c0@jcz> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.240 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Slow day at Yahoo! news? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:35:27 -0500, Jon Zerkel wrote: After about 30 or 40 minutes in the middle of a hot, sticky, July summer in Illinois, the sweat had caused my handstamp to become virtually undistinguishable. The carnie refused to let me ride any more rides that day, and nobody believed me when I told them...."I DID pay for the handstamp!" Needless to say, I was a very unhappy little boy. > > I've sometimes wondered if CP ever experiences similar problems? You obviously haven't used CPs handstamp fastpass or you wouldn't have asked. The problem arises when you visit two consecutive days and want to fastpass both days. They stamp heavy with lots of ink and it is a mammoth effort to get the ink off without taking some skin with it, or waiting a week for it to wear away on it's own. Beth From gregleg@gregleg.com Tue Jul 20 09:26:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: gregleg@gregleg.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8252 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 16:26:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 16:26:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO atlas.jtan.com) (207.106.84.159) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 16:26:40 -0000 X-JTAN-Envelope-From: gregleg@gregleg.com X-JTAN-Envelope-To: Received: from raven (thebe.jtan.com [207.106.84.138]) by atlas.jtan.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6KGQWtL026965 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200407201626.i6KGQWtL026965@atlas.jtan.com> To: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:26:41 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRudJgVgkGaqjZKRm2IHrmvS3PGXAAAabRQ In-Reply-To: <74b0c9f304072008396217e4d3@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.106.84.159 From: "Greg Legowski" Subject: RE: [RollerCoasterTalk] Slow day at Yahoo! news? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=102344349 X-Yahoo-Profile: GregLeg1 > You obviously haven't used CPs handstamp fastpass or you wouldn't have > asked. The problem arises when you visit two consecutive days and want > to fastpass both days. They stamp heavy with lots of ink and it is a > mammoth effort to get the ink off without taking some skin with it, or > waiting a week for it to wear away on it's own. Rubbing alcohol works wonders on that ink. As a diabetic, I always have alcohol swabs with me when I travel, and it takes that ink right off... --Greg "Some people will go to any lengths to get a ring; others, having had one for a while, will go to any lengths to chuck it into a volcano." -- Liz Langley From cameron@buzzneon.com Tue Jul 20 09:36:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51192 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 16:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 16:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 16:36:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 20283 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jul 2004 16:35:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20040720163545.20282.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:35:45 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <20040720150115.9286.qmail@web52907.mail.yahoo.com> from "Adam Sandy" at Jul 20, 2004 08:01:15 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] N EWS: Carowinds tells workers to exit after shift X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > Paramount's Carowinds, the regional theme park that > boasts some of the scariest rides in the Carolinas, > has shocked some of its seasonal teen workers by > banning them from the grounds after their shifts end. Hmm .. seems a little harsh. Can't they just put a rule into affect that states works can't socialize with anyone while on duty? I know Six Flags Great America has such a rule, and I'm sure most other parks do to.. Or am I over-simplifying it?! Cameron. -- Cameron Silver: ** Use the * ,_~o cameron@buzzneon.com ** tractor thing! * / //\ ******************************************************************** \>> | I'd rather be Skiing. * \, From bethtoons@gmail.com Tue Jul 20 11:44:32 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bethtoons@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56960 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 18:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jul 2004 18:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (216.239.56.248) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 18:44:31 -0000 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so478050cwb for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.38 with SMTP id v38mr316220cwb; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <74b0c9f304072011442dc97258@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:44:30 -0400 To: rollercoastertalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <74b0c9f304071610246486167f@mail.gmail.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.239.56.248 From: Beth Aslakson Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] TR: 07/04/2004 Holiday World & 07/05/2004 SFKK X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=189987440 X-Yahoo-Profile: bethtoons On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:40:14 -0700, George Burnash wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:24:31 -0400, Beth Aslakson > wrote: > > > > I can finally leave for my next trip since I am now done with TRs from > > the last one. :) > > Heh, I've still got one to do myself. Hopefully I'll get to it in the > next couple of days. > The fun of training classes, scheduled breaks, and a good familiarity with the material plus a hotel w/ internet... I can probably get this week's written as the week goes. I couldn't have asked for a better ending to the trip or > > to the day, as I ended with a night ride on Raven after a rainstorm > > with fireworks over Lake Rudolph from the campground. > > I have to admit, when you called and told me about that, I was a bit > jealous. While we had a fun fourth, I think that yours probably topped > ours by a good shot. Especially since I didn't care one way or another if I saw fireworks on the 4th and you were deparately seeking them out. I do wish you'd not had the power problems at Libertyland though as I think you'd have had a fun afternoon there. > And wallop me he did! Had to admit, we had a pretty good laugh, with what > I heard something like this: > *phone rings* > Beth: "Hand the phone to Dave" (no Hi, or anything else.) > Me: "ok" > pause > *Whap* from Dave hitting me! and it did make me feel better... and I suppose it just accented my point that the park brings out the worst in people, since I don't typically spend much time whapping people upside the head. > > Unfortunately, my other "needed" credit was T2. I tried my > > best to ignore him, suffered through the most painful and worst SLC > > ride I've ever had anywhere > > While I can't do much about the company at SFKK (sorry bout that), I did > find one thing that helped me when I rode Hangman, the SLC at Wild > Adventures. If I put my head in the back left side of the restraint, in > the pocket with it also on the side of the restraint, then worked to keep > it there I experienced absolutely no headbanging at all. It actually made > the SLC quite a fun ride. I don't know if it'll work for all of them, but > it did for one, and might be worth trying on others. It'll be a couple weeks before my next SLC, but I guess I'll give that a try next time. Although, I thought I had a surefire head position down for Arrow Corkscrews, and the one at Canobie still bounced my skull really well. > > And I've got a feeling that you'll see me again before the year is out to > give me a follow up whack upside the head. :P Is that a hint? Care to elaborate?? Beth From scrunch17@yahoo.com Wed Jul 21 06:13:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: scrunch17@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9838 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 13:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 13:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20601.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.157) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 13:13:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20040721131146.98614.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.17.107.208] by web20601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:11:46 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT) To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.226.157 From: Jeremy Norris Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=64084290 X-Yahoo-Profile: scrunch17 --- adamnvillani wrote: > --- In RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com, > thunder7nyfl@a... wrote: > > It goes up a tower, than drops on a track. A > coaster in my > > definition must start and finish on a track. > > What would you think of the Spellbreaker at > Legoland, which had an > elevator lift? The RCDB counts spellbreaker but > doesn't count > Freefall. Me, myself, personally, I use the "duck test". That is, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then it must be a duck. For example, Thunder Run @ Canada's Wonderland is technically powered throught the course, making it more dark/flat ride than coaster. BUT to the average person, it rides like a coaster, sounds like a coaster, and looks like a coaster. So by the duck test, it *is* a coaster. On the flipside, Intamin 1st gen drop rides like CP's Demon Drop ride, may ride and sound like a coaster, but looks like an elevator. Therefore, it's not a coaster. What is it? I dont really know. It's just a drop ride. Now the biggie, Superman the Escape. Well, to me, it rides like a coaster, it certainly sounds like a coaster, and I bet if you showed a bunch of people a picture of it, they'd say it *looks* like a coaster. Therefore, the only possible "duck test" conclusion is that S:TE is indeed a coaster. But hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion... - - - - - - - ....even if they are WRONG! =] lata, jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From lance@screamscape.com Wed Jul 21 06:29:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: lance@screamscape.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23287 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 13:29:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 13:29:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.globat.com) (216.193.201.32) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 13:29:16 -0000 Received: from barbados.globat.com (barbados.inside.globat.com [10.1.1.15]) by mail2.globat.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with SMTP id i6LDTEor042478 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lance@screamscape.com) Received: (qmail 73661 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 13:29:14 -0000 Received: from 53.248.8.67.cfl.rr.com (HELO SCREAMSCAPE001) (67.8.248.53) by barbados.globat.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 13:29:14 -0000 Message-ID: <020d01c46f26$bc252d90$6400a8c0@SCREAMSCAPE001> To: References: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:29:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.193.201.32 From: "Lance Hart" Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: NEWS: Buh-Bye FastPass - Disneyland, California X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=44384404 X-Yahoo-Profile: screamscapelance > > I think some people have forgotten what the world was like before > FastPass. > > Before FastPass, you could find short lines on attractions and ride > them > > over and over. I remember one day a friend and I rode Twilight Zone > 8 times > > in a row (Rock 'n Roller was still under construction) in the > middle of a > > summer > > day. > > However, you're talking about MGM Studios, the least visited of the > parks. I've done the same thing on TOT too. MGM isn't the least attended... AK is and MGM is pretty close to Epcot in terms to being 2nd place. My point is... this is now IMPOSSIBLE to do on Twilight Zone ever since FastPass was installed. There is no such thing as a walk on ride any longer. > > I remember park hopped into the Magic Kingdom with friends to hit > > Splash Mountain just before the park closed and getting in 2 or 3 > rides in a > > row with no wait at all. > > The statement "just before the park closed" is the clue there. Most > of the rides are walk-on just before closing. Even during the peak > season. Again... not any more. Take it from someone who has lived in Orlando for the past 4 years and went to the parks all the time... it's a rare thing to find Splash Mountain a walk on at the end of the day because there are always FastPass people there and a long Stand-By line. Buzz Lightyear is another good example... before FP was installed the average line length for Buzz was 5-10 minutes for everyone and the line was kept enirely indoors. After they added FP, the after Stand-By line is 45 minutes or longer, huge lines stretching out into the outside queue they've had to create. But if you happen to luck out and show up at the park on a day when they aren't using fastpass there again (when enough machines are broken or they have staffing problems) the lines are back down to being short for everyone. Rock 'n Roller Coaster is another one... before FP it took maybe 20 minutes tops to get on it, and that was using the ENTIRE outside and inside queue area. That line moved quick... but once FP went in, it takes at least 45-60 minutes of waiting in just the outside queue area alone. From cameron@buzzneon.com Wed Jul 21 06:54:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: cameron@buzzneon.com X-Apparently-To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46063 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 13:54:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2004 13:54:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buzzneon.com) (64.254.223.22) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 13:54:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 386 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Jul 2004 13:53:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20040721135302.384.qmail@buzzneon.com> To: RollerCoasterTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:53:02 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <20040721131146.98614.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Jeremy Norris" at Jul 21, 2004 06:11:46 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.254.223.22 From: cameron@buzzneon.com Subject: Re: [RollerCoasterTalk] Re: QUES: Roller coaster definition X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54528050 X-Yahoo-Profile: buzz_neon > Now the biggie, Superman the Escape. Well, to me, it > rides like a coaster, it certainly sounds like a > coaster, and I bet if you showed a bunch of people a > picture of it, they'd say it *looks* like a coaster. I agree that Superman: The Escape is a coaster ... In fact, I don't understand the debate at all. No-one seems to question whether or not the Schwarzkopf shuttle loops are coasters, same for the Intamin impulse coasters .. So why all the fuss over Superman - which is essentially a shuttle loop without the loo